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Old 07-06-04, 09:10 AM   #26
Nam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rygreen
Is it bad etiquette to attack Mayo like this? I mean, he crashed, but a lot of those other guys in that group didn't. The cobbles split them. So technically, I guess it wasn't bad form to attack them. Is Heras back there too?
I don't think they actually attack, I saw a very small gap when crashing. But then it opened bigger and bigger.

It's all about luck, and Mayo got a very bad luck today.
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Old 07-06-04, 09:24 AM   #27
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Heras made the front group.

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Originally Posted by Laggard
Lance officially won the TDF today. Postal is the greatest team ever.
we know you are just crying over Moreau
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Old 07-06-04, 09:30 AM   #28
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Well, Mayo definitely won't be conservative in the mountains now. I think we can expect him to be off the front all the time!
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Old 07-06-04, 09:46 AM   #29
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Laggard...perhaps a bit premature or was that how you felt since the beginning. You had Mayo as #1 contender?? When Zulle lost 7 min years ago he came back to finish within something like 2-3 min. of Lance

I hope that Tyler, Ullrich, Basso, Leipheimer,and Heras don't share your opinion. I agree it was a big blow to Mayo...especially the day before the TTT. Expect to see Mayo down by 7 min tomorrow, though I never saw him as the #1 contender
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Old 07-06-04, 09:50 AM   #30
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Here's the call from cn
16:19 CEST*** 170km/40km to go
The Mayo group are coming back towards the leading bunch, but only slowly - it doesn't look as though they're going to get back before the second section of pave. T-Mobile, US Postal and Phonak are all working hard on the front (whatever happened to not attacking favourites who crash, I hear you ask - and have no answer).

Mayo is FUBAR. Stage wins only now, possibly a podium if he's lucky.
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Old 07-06-04, 09:54 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by jkoman
Laggard...perhaps a bit premature or was that how you felt since the beginning. You had Mayo as #1 contender?? When Zulle lost 7 min years ago he came back to finish within something like 2-3 min. of Lance
Y'all know I'm joking, right?

I had Mayo as third. That looks to be in jeopardy now.
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Old 07-06-04, 10:10 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by jkoman
When Zulle lost 7 min years ago he came back to finish within something like 2-3 min. of Lance
He lost 6 minutes on the 2nd stage, and still finished 7:37 behind at the end of the Tour.

What a ride by Ekimov and Hincapie. I didn't think that USPS could do much, when I saw that they only had two riders with Armstrong, but they still plowed and opened up the race.
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Old 07-06-04, 10:50 AM   #33
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What a ride by Ekimov and Hincapie. I didn't think that USPS could do much, when I saw that they only had two riders with Armstrong, but they still plowed and opened up the race.
Yep, those are the two guys you want up there! They'll come up big in tomorrow's TTT also.
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Old 07-06-04, 11:04 AM   #34
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I can't imagine that it's bad form to attack in this situation. There were still around 90 riders back with the Mayo group and he had his team, plus there was around 60 km to the finish and there was a breakaway up the road.

It goes to show what a benefit a strong team is. If the same thing had happened to LA, Ullrich or Hamilton you know that Postal, T-Mobile or Phonak would ride all out ala a TTT, if necessary, to catch up (and probably would) or at least limit the loss to a manageable time.

Unfortunately, Euskatel couldn't do it and the lack of a strong overall team probably cost Mayo a chance of challenging on GC. Really too bad on day 3, but you almost can't win anymore without a strong team.
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Old 07-06-04, 11:11 AM   #35
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Has the stage finished?? I am blocked here at work and can see nothing
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Old 07-06-04, 11:32 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rygreen
Yep, those are the two guys you want up there! They'll come up big in tomorrow's TTT also.
Yep, Armstrong could have yellow after the TTT tomorrow. Is it a blessing or a curse so earlier in the Tour? If he gets yellow how hard does Postal defend it so early in the Tour?
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Old 07-06-04, 11:43 AM   #37
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All the tickers I was watching had Ivan Basso in the Mayo group. Now I see he finished with the leaders!? Am I going nuts here?
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Old 07-06-04, 11:48 AM   #38
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Quote:
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Yep, Armstrong could have yellow after the TTT tomorrow. Is it a blessing or a curse so earlier in the Tour? If he gets yellow how hard does Postal defend it so early in the Tour?
I would figure that they would defend the race the same exact way that they would if they didn't have the jersey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rygreen
All the tickers I was watching had Ivan Basso in the Mayo group. Now I see he finished with the leaders!? Am I going nuts here?
I think he was with what was originally the first chasing group, containing CSC for Basso and Liberty for Heras. They caught the front group before the second pave.
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Old 07-06-04, 12:19 PM   #39
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My thoughts on the day...

Mayo is highly gifted, but he has few friends in the peleton. Remember last year when he stole second place at the top of Luz Ardiden from Ullrich, after drafting all the way to the top. Ullrich, who is a fine sportsman, was clearly irked at the end - he could have used the seconds. There are other examples. Euskatel prides itself on being opportunistic, lacking a good team, and the penalty for this approach of course is not being protected from misfortune.

Another interesting factor was how long it took Mayo's team to regroup around him after his crash. He was on his own for several minutes before they came to his aid. Any self-respecting tour team would have stopped immediately. This is a clear indicator of bad team unity and leadership.

From my side, I am delighted to see the 2'30" TTT rule neutralized. Mayo was the only true GC hopeful whose team would likely lose more than this time limit, so the rule represented an inappropriate advantage for him, in my opinion. It is a team sport afterall, and a bunch of guys from a small region of spain should not be able to compete with teams drawing from the best around the world. Now, with the split today, the 2'30" rule is far less important. Ullrich, Hamilton, and others have good enough teams to not need this.

My two cents worth!
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Old 07-06-04, 01:08 PM   #40
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What was telling was that Heras was in the 2nd group (caught out in the crash) but
his team regrouped around him and basically did a team time trial andbridged up to
the first group. I think this is a good indication of Liberty's TTT performance tomorrow.
Don't forget Once was always very strong in the TTT.
Wheelman makes some good points about Mayo and having few friends in the
peloton, although I wonder if another GC hopeful was in the same position would
it make any difference.

Marty
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Old 07-06-04, 01:41 PM   #41
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Very good question, lotek, about whether one of the other GC hopefuls would have made it back. For example, if Hamilton, Ullrich, or Armstrong had gone down, would the front peleton have stayed away from the rear group?

My vote: I think Phonak or T-Mobil or Postal would have made it back. They would have rallied around their leader much more rapidly (Mayo seemed to be on his own for a full minute after getting back on his bike, an unforgivable lapse of team organization), so the initial gap would have been smaller. Also, if a team with solid TTT skills was known to be closing the gap, the teams in front would be more wary about committing their energies to sustaining the gap. Once a trend of reducing the gap was established, the psychological battle would be won by the chasers and the front group would have saved its energy for the TTT tomorrow.

In contrast, when Mayo's team failed to make any progress in closing the gap, the blood was in the water and the other teams struck. The only thing that could have helped at that point would have been favors and good will owed to Mayo and others on Euskatel. But that team, by its own admission in pre-race interviews, succeeds by opportunisitically taking advantage of the work of other teams, so they have no friends. You reap what you sow in the world of pro cycling, or, to invert the common expression, you make your own bad luck.

In summary, I'll shed no tears for Mayo tonight...
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Old 07-06-04, 01:41 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
What was telling was that Heras was in the 2nd group (caught out in the crash) but
his team regrouped around him and basically did a team time trial andbridged up to
the first group. I think this is a good indication of Liberty's TTT performance tomorrow.
Don't forget Once was always very strong in the TTT.
Wheelman makes some good points about Mayo and having few friends in the
peloton, although I wonder if another GC hopeful was in the same position would
it make any difference.

Marty
Funny, Heras spent a large part of yesterday chasing back to the peleton as well. Hopefully the hard effort on the two days from both himself and his team have not taken a toll.

-mark
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Old 07-06-04, 01:54 PM   #43
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Did anyone notice how Euskaltel-Euskadi were doing all the work in the trailing group. It put a smile on my face to see Super Mario cruising along in 4th place! Then, at the very as they came across the finish line, one of the riders gave the E-E rider a pat on the back. The E-E rider probably felt like punching him out by that time.
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Old 07-06-04, 01:57 PM   #44
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I knew something big would happen today on the pavé, so this didn't surprise me. In fact, I'm happy to see it. I don't really like Mayo or the Euskaltel team. Mayo will probably lose 2'30" tomorrow based on how weak their team looked today.

Mayo is a talented rider, but he really needs a better team.
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Old 07-06-04, 04:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelman
It is a team sport afterall, and a bunch of guys from a small region of spain should not be able to compete with teams drawing from the best around the world.
I've heard that comment before- but it was a bunch of guys from America kicking around europe on 7-11's dime.
The TTT rule has good and bad points but it's there and if you don't like it don't blame the riders it benefits, blame the STDF.
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Old 07-06-04, 04:23 PM   #46
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I like Mayo and his team a lot, and am sad to see what happened to him today.
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Old 07-06-04, 04:28 PM   #47
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Mayo and his team/other team should have busted their ass out to get back to the pack, but unfotunately they didn't, party because they have TTT tomorrow, and nobody else in 40 riders want to lead except for Mayo team.

What would happened if it's Lance, Tyler, or Ullrich? They would probably pus everything they got to back on track. That's my guess.
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Old 07-06-04, 06:41 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nam
Mayo and his team/other team should have busted their ass out to get back to the pack, but unfotunately they didn't, party because they have TTT tomorrow, and nobody else in 40 riders want to lead except for Mayo team.
Mayo and team knows he can climb with the best of them, sometimes better, so he will save his energy for the mountains.....thats my guess
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Old 07-06-04, 06:56 PM   #49
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Save his energy for the mountains? Why would he save energy by losing minutes on flat stages? All that will do is ruin his chance to win the race.

If Ullrich, Hamilton, or Armstrong got caught out, I would bet that their team would have been able to bridge the gap. Part of it is morale. If, say, T-Mobile was chasing the front pack down, I bet the others in the chase would be more likely to attempt to help.

Euskatel just couldn't compete in a chase against three powerhouse teams. (they tried)
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Old 07-06-04, 10:51 PM   #50
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Man, it's 3 hrs before the Tour is on telly. Damn this forum. Damn it to Hades.

Some of the animosity towards Mayo has been pretty suprising here. What's the deal? Like to kick people when they're down? Some anti-Spanish sentiment? Give the guy/team a break!

It's true that the Tour is a team event, and Armstrong has leveraged this to good advantagein the past as well as today, it seems. I think half the problem is with some of these other teams is that although they may have one stong GC contender, it's almost appears as like the priority is shifted away from a top ten finish in the GC to stage wins. The tour is, afterall, about exposure for sponsors, so maybe that accounts for some part as to why some teams seem less 'teamy' than others?

How did Hamilton, Ulrich and the other contenders go today? Can someone post up the stages placings? Any thoughts on the TTT tomorrow?
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