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  1. #1
    Member echocola's Avatar
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    It's not Lance hate...simply the truth..

    You know, I took a break from watching cycling after Lance stopped competing. After I heard Lance was coming back I was going to watch again and root for him and I actually thought he was going to win.

    I didn't like Contador because I saw him as standing in the way of Lance especially after the Pyrenees when he didn't follow their team's plan. But, after Verbier, it was clear Contador was in a league of his own. I then started to observe Lance's reactions and interviews and it was pretty clear what was going on, he's a sore loser. After I took off the Lance glasses I saw what was really going on. I then came here and started reading threads to see if people shared my view and was pleasantly surprised.

    So Lance is awesome because he brought back people like me to watching cycling. All in all, I hope Contador crushes team Radio Shack next year.

    This rivalry is great for Cycling!! Look how much press it's generating.

    PS, erader, I agree with everything you say. Despite people calling you a Lance hater, etc. You really are just speaking truth. The truth hurts. Thanks.
    Last edited by echocola; 07-29-09 at 08:09 AM. Reason: grammar

  2. #2
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echocola View Post
    So Lance is awesome because he brought back people like me to watching cycling. All in all, I hope Contador crushes team Radio Shack last year.
    So now AC is so awesome he can manipulate the space-time continuum?

  3. #3
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    It took you that long to see that Lance is a sore loser?! Well, at least there is hope yet. Armstrong fanatics are never reasonable and will ignore and make excuses all day for their man. I find it incredibly hysterical the same people will jump at any chance they get to quickly criticize and condemn anyone speaking out about Armstrong. It's a bit hypocritical, but I suppose that is the Armstrong way.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  4. #4
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Yep. I like good losers the best. Those good losers tend to be the folks that get to practice that trait the most.

    Sadly, AC just wants to ride his bike. Nothing wrong with that, but pro bike racing is much more than just riding your bicycle to wins. He must learn to play the game. That is where Lance is head and shoulders a better bike racer than Alberto. He can ride his bike, attract sponsors, generate interest, etc.

    He can play the game better than anyone ever has, and most likely, ever will.

  5. #5
    www.ocrebels.com Rick@OCRR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    He can play the game better than anyone ever has, and most likely, ever will.
    Quite true,

    Lance does the Media Star gig quite well and far better than any bicycle racer that has gone before. The others get used by the media, Lance uses the media for his own purpose.

    I like Alberto and wish him the best. I hope he finds a good team for 2010, but no team seems to be a good fit for him at the moment.

    Rick / OCRR

  6. #6
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    ...Sadly, AC just wants to ride his bike. Nothing wrong with that, but pro bike racing is much more than just riding your bicycle to wins. He must learn to play the game. That is where Lance is head and shoulders a better bike racer than Alberto. He can ride his bike, attract sponsors, generate interest, etc...
    Lance has more clout, but that makes him a bigger player in cycling politics - not a better bike racer.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  7. #7
    Senior Member erader's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echocola View Post
    You know, I took a break from watching cycling after Lance stopped competing. After I heard Lance was coming back I was going to watch again and root for him and I actually thought he was going to win.

    I didn't like Contador because I saw him as standing in the way of Lance especially after the Pyrenees when he didn't follow their team's plan. But, after Verbier, it was clear Contador was in a league of his own. I then started to observe Lance's reactions and interviews and it was pretty clear what was going on, he's a sore loser. After I took off the Lance glasses I saw what was really going on. I then came here and started reading threads to see if people shared my view and was pleasantly surprised.

    So Lance is awesome because he brought back people like me to watching cycling. All in all, I hope Contador crushes team Radio Shack next year.

    This rivalry is great for Cycling!! Look how much press it's generating.

    PS, erader, I agree with everything you say. Despite people calling you a Lance hater, etc. You really are just speaking truth. The truth hurts. Thanks.
    thank you! i've rooted for lance since his early days with motorola and my path to disillusionment is very similar to yours.

    i believe that lance's image is slipping in even the eyes of the guys who defend him on this forum. i know it was that way for me....i defended lance even tho i wished he would retire and disappear from the cycling scene.

    lance is not a nice guy, he's duplicitous and self-serving and seeks to destroy anyone who defies him. those traits helped him to overcome cancer and become the greatest champion in TDF history but do not serve him well now.

    one day lance's behavior is gonna backfire and the press will turn on him, and then he'll be in a fight he cannot win. i believe we are seeing the beginning of that process now.

    ed rader
    Amgen Tour of California

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  8. #8
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
    Lance has more clout, but that makes him a bigger player in cycling politics - not a better bike racer.
    That is my point. If you want to just ride your bike, not glad-hand sponsors, not be all correct for your team, etc., then AC is superior. If you want to build a team, attract cash, and race a bike at 37, Lance will kick his ass every time.

  9. #9
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
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    AC and Lance ride differently, have different ideas about how to race. That's all well and good. Both are very competitive and both want to win. And that's all well and good as well. They were both on the same team... that, well, not so good as we've seen time and again in other teams that didn't have a single GC man and no one to really threaten that position. You put two former TdF winners on the same team, both having tasted victory in Paris, and what do you think is going to happen. These guys are racers, not fairy godmothers. Who had more support from Astana during the race, I'd probably have to side with AC, though if given the choice some of those riders may have wanted to support Lance more. But even Lance played his part of support rider when it was time to do so. Doesn't mean he liked it, doesn't mean we should expect him to like it. The desire for victory burns in Lance as strongly now as it did in 99 when he won his first - maybe even more so. So maybe it wasn't the best thing for AC that Lance showed up on the Astana team, maybe it wasn't the best thing for Lance to be on AC's team. But it's now in the history books and we can all argue about it till next year.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member kwrides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    thank you! i've rooted for lance since his early days with motorola and my path to disillusionment is very similar to yours.

    i believe that lance's image is slipping in even the eyes of the guys who defend him on this forum. i know it was that way for me....i defended lance even tho i wished he would retire and disappear from the cycling scene.

    lance is not a nice guy, he's duplicitous and self-serving and seeks to destroy anyone who defies him. those traits helped him to overcome cancer and become the greatest champion in TDF history but do not serve him well now.

    one day lance's behavior is gonna backfire and the press will turn on him, and then he'll be in a fight he cannot win. i believe we are seeing the beginning of that process now.

    ed rader
    I'm another one that loved Lance and followed this path of enlightenment too. However, I do not have the faith in others changing that you do. Heck, look at all the BD hand wringing that goes on around here.
    Quote Originally Posted by dewaday View Post
    I'm 50 years old. My parents find cycling 6-8 hours completely incomprehensible and self indulgent. Of course they're right, but I continue to ignore them as a form of rebellion.

  11. #11
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    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
    -LA is the greatest TDF rider ever, hands down, and even long past his prime is one of the best.
    -AC is the greatest TDF rider of his generation, and rightfully expects the support of his team.
    -LA has a hard time coping with not being the best, and I think it eats him up personally. But at least in public he can be a team player. Anyone remember "AC proved he was the strongest rider"?
    -AC needs to stop whining. When you just won the TDF its hard to say you got no support from your team when they won the team competition.
    -While I think LA's behavior on the road was beyond reproach, I think he should have addressed the issue of team leader with the media better. It shouldn't have taken AC kicking his butt in the moutains for him to know he wasn't the best anymore. He should have known before the race and gone in saying AC is our team leader. If I can get a podium spot that's great but ultimately he is the priority.
    -This was definitely not about cancer fundraising
    Last edited by bailcash09; 07-29-09 at 10:27 AM.
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

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  12. #12
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echocola View Post
    PS, erader, I agree with everything you say. Despite people calling you a Lance hater, etc. You really are just speaking truth. The truth hurts. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    thank you!

    ed rader
    HEY!! How about me!?
    I did time for Lance hating! Iv got BF street cred!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
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    The truth? That's a mighty big word . . . use it very wisely.


    . . . .And you guys think you are the truth bearers of all things Lance Armstrong?


    One word . . . . Delusion.

    One phrase . . . It takes one to know one.

    I say this in all humility . . .
    Last edited by Garthr; 07-29-09 at 03:42 PM.

  14. #14
    asv
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    Senior Member asv's Avatar
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    Personally, I hated LA before his comeback, but his comeback changed my opinion. I actually like him now.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailcash09 View Post
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
    -LA is the greatest TDF rider ever, hands down, and even long past his prime is one of the best.
    -AC is the greatest TDF rider of his generation, and rightfully expects the support of his team.
    -LA has a hard time coping with not being the best, and I think it eats him up personally. But at least in public he can be a team player. Anyone remember "AC proved he was the strongest rider"?
    -AC needs to stop whining. When you just won the TDF its hard to say you got no support from your team when they won the team competition.
    -While I think LA's behavior on the road was beyond reproach, I think he should have addressed the issue of team leader with the media better. It shouldn't have taken AC kicking his butt in the moutains for him to know he wasn't the best anymore. He should have known before the race and gone in saying AC is our team leader. If I can get a podium spot that's great but ultimately he is the priority.
    -This was definitely not about cancer fundraising
    I disagree. 7 wins and one second out of I believe 12 tries. The rest out of the top 20

    Merckx - 5 wins, one second one 8th (I think) out of 7 tries. Out of his 5 wins he only has one where he did not pick up at least one other Jersey.

    Oh one can argue best TDF rider for Lance, but far from hands down. Merckx with far fewer starts also has more stage wins and more days in yellow than Lance.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    I disagree. 7 wins and one second out of I believe 12 tries. The rest out of the top 20

    Merckx - 5 wins, one second one 8th (I think) out of 7 tries. Out of his 5 wins he only has one where he did not pick up at least one other Jersey.

    Oh one can argue best TDF rider for Lance, but far from hands down. Merckx with far fewer starts also has more stage wins and more days in yellow than Lance.
    I agree. In fact I might have to go with Merckx.

  17. #17
    Senior Member kwrides's Avatar
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    Merckx was a much better all around rider, it's not even close, but IMHO 7 beats 5 every time.
    Quote Originally Posted by dewaday View Post
    I'm 50 years old. My parents find cycling 6-8 hours completely incomprehensible and self indulgent. Of course they're right, but I continue to ignore them as a form of rebellion.

  18. #18
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailcash09 View Post
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
    -LA is the greatest TDF rider ever, hands down, and even long past his prime is one of the best.
    Nope. Merckx is the greatest TDF rider ever. 5 TDF, 3 Green Jerseys, 2 Mountain Jerseys, 4 Combativity awards, 34 stage wins, 111 days in yellow. Oh yeah, in '69 he won all three jerseys.
    i may have overreacted

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Nope. Merckx is the greatest TDF rider ever. 5 TDF, 3 Green Jerseys, 2 Mountain Jerseys, 4 Combativity awards, 34 stage wins, 111 days in yellow. Oh yeah, in '69 he won all three jerseys.
    My admiration for him stems from beyond the TdF - he won several of the Classics, other Grand Tours and 3 world Championships.

    He truely was an animal!
    Road: Look 586, Casati, De Rosa
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  20. #20
    Member sundaypunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Yep. I like good losers the best. Those good losers tend to be the folks that get to practice that trait the most.
    No kidding. Who was it that said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....

  21. #21
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erader View Post
    thank you! i've rooted for lance since his early days with motorola and my path to disillusionment is very similar to yours.

    i believe that lance's image is slipping in even the eyes of the guys who defend him on this forum. i know it was that way for me....i defended lance even tho i wished he would retire and disappear from the cycling scene.

    lance is not a nice guy, he's duplicitous and self-serving and seeks to destroy anyone who defies him. those traits helped him to overcome cancer and become the greatest champion in TDF history but do not serve him well now.

    one day lance's behavior is gonna backfire and the press will turn on him, and then he'll be in a fight he cannot win. i believe we are seeing the beginning of that process now.

    ed rader

    I totally agree. The problem with Armstrong being such a punk is that his fans and the media continually ignore his vindictive nature and make excuses for him. How many times do we have to hear from Armstrong supporters saying, "IF so-and-so were true that Armstrong..." Yet, these same people have continually jumped at any fabrication criticizing any enemy of Armstrong.

    I have no doubt in my mind that Armstrong used performance-enhancing drugs for all 7 of his wins, including the podium finish this year. They just won't catch the guy because when he knows he is on the juice, he just won't allow his blood or urine to be taken without him altering it first. He's not a sportsman. He shouldn't have even been allowed to race the Tour this year for violating an earlier UCI test. He's a punk. And he's not only a jerk in his personal life, but in his professional life as well. The number of vidictive incidents he has had with other riders are numerous. Swart, Vaughters, Andreu, Emma O'Reilly, Simeoni, Landis, and now Contador. There are many more, but this thing would go on forever if I listed them all.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  22. #22
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundaypunch View Post
    No kidding. Who was it that said "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"....
    Lombardy, maybe?

    To the OP,

    I think that most the complaints you hear around here about those that dislike Lance are aimed a select few who don't have anything else to say. When that's all they can talk about in just about every one of their posts in any thread, regardless of initial topic, it gets tiresome. I would contend that a reasonably large percentage of the folks cheering for Lance, at least those that are cyclists first and Lance supporters second, realize the double edged sword that is his personality. He's domineering and it's obvious. But then again, other great TDF champions have been just as tough. Nicknames like Canibal and Badger are not necessarily terms of endearment. Eddy chewed the peleton up and left little drama in the tour. And I'm sure if we dug just a little deeper than Wikipedia, we would see that they too sometimes had less than kind things to say about their competition or the competition about them.

    One of the things that continues to amaze me, is that soo many that decry Lance, his personality and the allegations of his drug use, then declare a four times proven positive cheat to be the greatest TDF champion ever. I'm not belittling Eddy, but, come on folks the guy got tossed from the Giro for use of banned substances in the same year that he won his first Tour.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  23. #23
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Lombardy, maybe?

    To the OP,

    I think that most the complaints you hear around here about those that dislike Lance are aimed a select few who don't have anything else to say. When that's all they can talk about in just about every one of their posts in any thread, regardless of initial topic, it gets tiresome.
    I think what gets tiresome for these people you are talking about is that they offer no, nor do they have any rebuttal except for the cancer card, the 7 Tour wins, and personal criticism.

    I have yet to see any debate driven rebuttal on any anti-Lance comments.

    As the thread topic says, its not Lance hating....simply truth.

    Besides, does one suggest we make a camp fire and sing kumbaya?
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

  24. #24
    coffee bean grinder grinderbob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bailcash09 View Post
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle:
    -This was definitely not about cancer fundraising
    Defintely not. It is the other way around. Cancer awareness and the Livestrong non-profit organization were convinently used to gain publicity for himself. At least that's how it was perceived. sad.

  25. #25
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    Big Fred. Your quote about good losers has been attributed to the late great Vince Lombardi.

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