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  1. #1
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Peleton Trends Part II - Cadence Craze over?

    So it was all about cadence in 2004 when I last watched the Tour.

    This year its PowerTaps and Garmin GPS ULTRA Super computers.

    Nineties was all about Heart rate monitors.

    Any predictions of the next craze?
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

  2. #2
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    any of you remember these?
    I think they should allow them back.
    I noticed a lot of riders leaning on the tops of their handle bars.
    A LOT MORE DANGEROUS if you ask me

    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

  3. #3
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    The cadence craze isn't over, Carmichael has already been quoted on the idea that by next year Lance will be back to his higher cadences.

    Spinacci's (sp?) should be allowed. You're right, they're a lot safer than leaning on the tops with your forearmse and they were only banned in the first place because of crazy politics.

    If you start the "Bring Back Spinacci's" movement, I'll sign up. However, realize, you won't be the first to have tried. It comes up every couple of years.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

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    next years fad will be all about radio...oh wait

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    The cadence craze isn't over.
    Indeed. Look at Contador's cadence. Neither he, nor Schleck are mashers.
    The search for inner peace continues...

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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
    Indeed. Look at Contador's cadence. Neither he, nor Schleck are mashers.
    I think Lance might have had a high cadence in his prime. AC and AS are pretty lightweight riders and are natural climbers. I think they're cadence is more of a natural rate for them. They climb fast, but Lance used to look like he was in a spinning class or something. You don't see many riders with that high of a cadence.

    Also, Carmichael can say all he wants. Turning a high cadence isn't difficult. Its the gear that your in that causes the problem. We'll see if Lance and get that high cadence like he used to have in the same gears. And for how long will he be able to keep it going.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  7. #7
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
    Indeed. Look at Contador's cadence. Neither he, nor Schleck are mashers.
    Quote Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
    I think Lance might have had a high cadence in his prime. AC and AS are pretty lightweight riders and are natural climbers. I think they're cadence is more of a natural rate for them. They climb fast, but Lance used to look like he was in a spinning class or something. You don't see many riders with that high of a cadence.

    Also, Carmichael can say all he wants. Turning a high cadence isn't difficult. Its the gear that your in that causes the problem. We'll see if Lance and get that high cadence like he used to have in the same gears. And for how long will he be able to keep it going.

    The cadence that Contador uses, Scleck, Pantani, and over 60% of the peleton is normally high.

    There was never anything special abut Lances cadence, he just advertised and did press releases that he had a high cadence.

    Crack open your old Tour DVDs, and watch Pantani and Armstrong, Pantani's was higher. Watch all the time trials, half the peleton has faster cadences than Lance ever had. The one time Lance tried to use a visually noticable cadence, he lost minutes in the TT againt all his contenders. He didnt use that cadence ever again. (The time trial he claimed he lost 6KG in sweat in a 45min TT)

    Any Cat 1 racer even here in the states averages 90rpm. This is suppose to be Lances (90-110), nothing special at all.

    When I was U23, I trained at 125rpm average. We did motor pacing with my national Team and it was taught that 90-110 is NORMAL.
    This came off my junior days where we were not allowed anything smaller than a 13cog per UCI rules, which is the same for every other country

    Again, there is nothing special about Lances cadence, in fact a lot of climbers have 10rpm higher cadence's naturally without specifically training for it.


    Thats why I called it a craze.
    So yes, Scleck and Contador have "high" cadences, AKA, normal.

    You ever seen Fausto Coppi's Cadence? He was suppose to be in the 120-130 range

    So it was an LA and Carmichael Craze. And lets not forget that anything you heard the commentators saying about it, they were paid to say, i think that where the idea that he had a "fast, or special" cadence came from.
    Last edited by Howzit; 07-30-09 at 12:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
    The cadence that Contador uses, Scleck, Pantani, and over 60% of the peleton is normally high.

    There was never anything special abut Lances cadence, he just advertised and did press releases that he had a high cadence.

    Crack open your old Tour DVDs, and watch Pantani and Armstrong, Pantani's was higher. Watch all the time trials, half the peleton has faster cadences than Lance ever had. The one time Lance tried to use a visually noticable cadence, he lost minutes in the TT againt all his contenders. He didnt use that cadence ever again. (The time trial he claimed he lost 6KG in sweat in a 45min TT)

    Any Cat 1 racer even here in the states averages 90rpm. This is suppose to be Lances (90-110), nothing special at all.

    When I was U23, I trained at 125rpm average. We did motor pacing with my national Team and it was taught that 90-110 is NORMAL.
    This came off my junior days where we were not allowed anything smaller than a 13cog per UCI rules, which is the same for every other country

    Again, there is nothing special about Lances cadence, in fact a lot of climbers have 10rpm higher cadence's naturally without specifically training for it.


    Thats why I called it a craze.
    So yes, Scleck and Contador have "high" cadences, AKA, normal.

    You ever seen Fausto Coppi's Cadence? He was suppose to be in the 120-130 range

    So it was an LA and Carmichael Craze. And lets not forget that anything you heard the commentators saying about it, they were paid to say, i think that where the idea that he had a "fast, or special" cadence came from.
    I don't disagree with you on any of that. My point was more that Schleck and AC's cadences seem normal for them, fairly high but norma.. I do recall thinking that Lance had a high cadence. Perhaps, he and Carmichael were deliberately trying to keep it higher than what might be normal for Lance. I'm not going to go back and look at old footage or research. Its really not important.

    I do agree and think it was a craze. I think it was more of a craze for non-professional cyclists than the pros.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
    The cadence that Contador uses, Scleck, Pantani, and over 60% of the peleton is normally high.

    There was never anything special abut Lances cadence, he just advertised and did press releases that he had a high cadence.

    Crack open your old Tour DVDs, and watch Pantani and Armstrong, Pantani's was higher. Watch all the time trials, half the peleton has faster cadences than Lance ever had. The one time Lance tried to use a visually noticable cadence, he lost minutes in the TT againt all his contenders. He didnt use that cadence ever again. (The time trial he claimed he lost 6KG in sweat in a 45min TT)

    Any Cat 1 racer even here in the states averages 90rpm. This is suppose to be Lances (90-110), nothing special at all.

    When I was U23, I trained at 125rpm average. We did motor pacing with my national Team and it was taught that 90-110 is NORMAL.
    This came off my junior days where we were not allowed anything smaller than a 13cog per UCI rules, which is the same for every other country

    Again, there is nothing special about Lances cadence, in fact a lot of climbers have 10rpm higher cadence's naturally without specifically training for it.


    Thats why I called it a craze.
    So yes, Scleck and Contador have "high" cadences, AKA, normal.

    You ever seen Fausto Coppi's Cadence? He was suppose to be in the 120-130 range

    So it was an LA and Carmichael Craze. And lets not forget that anything you heard the commentators saying about it, they were paid to say, i think that where the idea that he had a "fast, or special" cadence came from.
    Big difference between 90 and 110 RPM.

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    from a study:

    Purpose: The aim of this investigation was to evaluate the preferred cycling cadence of professional riders during competition. Methods: We measured the cadence of seven professional cyclists (28 ± 1 yr) during 3-wk road races (Giro d'ltalia. Tour de France, and Vuelta a España) involving three main competition requirements: uphill cycling (high mountain passes of ∼15 km, or HM); individual time trials of ∼50 km on level ground (TT); and flat, long (∼190 km) group stages (F). Heart rate (HR) data were also recorded as an indicator of exercise intensity during HM. TT, and F. Results: Mean cadence was significantly lower (P < 0.01) during HM (71.0 ± 1.4 rpm) than either F and TT (89.3 ± 1.0 and 92.4 ± 1.3 rpm, respectively). HR was similar during HM and TT (157 ± 4 and 158 ± 3 bpm) and in hoth cases higher (P < 0.01) than during F (124 ± 2 bpm). Conclusion: During both F and TT, professional riders spontaneously adopt higher cadences (around 90 rpm) than those previously reported in the majority of laboratory studies as being the most economical. In contrast, during HM they seem to adopt a more economical pedalling rate (∼70 rpm), possibly as a result of the specific demands of this competition phase.

  11. #11
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Seems to me that they need to put in some more rules for Time Trial bikes, they seem so unstable and uncontrollable
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

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    A great article:

    http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=4011

    The following quote from this article would seem to confirm that Armstrong ran higher cadences than the rest of the riders:

    In time trials, the prevailing wisdom has always been to roll bigger gears at lower cadences of 80-90 rpm until Armstrong came along. And hands up who amongst us has not tried to replicate his high cadence time trial (110+) and climbing (90+) style? That’s what I thought, and we’re not alone. Most of the pros have also attempted to replicate this high rpm style, with varying degrees of success. The question remains – is Lance truly a unique specimen, or is there scientific basis for all of us to aim for shifting TT cadence upwards?

    I have also heard that higher cadences can help clear your legs of lactic acid and increase blood flow. I have heard of the term venus pumps.

  13. #13
    XTR
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    Granted that I'm not a pro rider, and while I did race NORBA in sport class for years I've never competed in a road race. That said, back in 1992 when I first started getting serious about riding I was taught to try to hold a 90 cadence on the road and to this day that's where I run. If I ride a long reasonably flat ride my 305 will show an average cadence of about 88 or 89. So if 90 is high then it's surely not a new "fad".

    I did have to learn to lower my cadence for MTB riding. I rode on the road for a long time before I started racing MTBs. On a MTB you can't sit the saddle and spin, you need a cadence that is low enough to let you pop up to float over bumps, but on any long climb I still sit and spin at about 90 if I've got a low enough gear that my 49yo legs can push it. In my experience pushing bigger gears with a slower cadence on long climbs causes lactic acid build up based on the how bad it hurts meter.

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    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTR View Post
    Granted that I'm not a pro rider, and while I did race NORBA in sport class for years I've never competed in a road race. That said, back in 1992 when I first started getting serious about riding I was taught to try to hold a 90 cadence on the road and to this day that's where I run. If I ride a long reasonably flat ride my 305 will show an average cadence of about 88 or 89. So if 90 is high then it's surely not a new "fad".

    I did have to learn to lower my cadence for MTB riding. I rode on the road for a long time before I started racing MTBs. On a MTB you can't sit the saddle and spin, you need a cadence that is low enough to let you pop up to float over bumps, but on any long climb I still sit and spin at about 90 if I've got a low enough gear that my 49yo legs can push it. In my experience pushing bigger gears with a slower cadence on long climbs causes lactic acid build up based on the how bad it hurts meter.
    Exactly.

    It is a fad because Lance claims 90-110 is special and no other riders do it.
    Like I said, I trained at 125 when I was U23.
    Pretty much every pro rides around 90rpm. Im not sure why all of a sudden it became a tend or became a fad when riders have been doing it for decades.
    And thats why Im wondering if the craze is over now, and fans are realizing that they got caught up in media hype.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

  15. #15
    Big Blade Howzit's Avatar
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    Do you guys think that SRAM RED is a craze or its here to stay?

    Its officially a TdF winner with Contador thats for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Weren't you supposed to disappear after the TDF was over?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    But then I'll never understand how taking a dump became precedent either. Why don't they call it leaving a dump? I mean... you're not really taking it anywhere.

  16. #16
    Senior Member daxr's Avatar
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    I always figured Lance's cadence seemed so fast because so many of his "epic" battles were in the mountains against Ullrich, who was a 70-80 rpm climber. Watching the two climbing together was always impressive - Lance seemed light and fresh, while Ullrich always looked to be dog-tired, even if they were climbing at the same speed.

    It wasn't that Lance's cadence was so fast, though, just that Ullrich's was relatively slow. 90 + rpm is nothing new though - I followed Eddy B's advice back in the early 80's and always tried to keep a nice high cadence.
    "... the age of Happy Motoring is over. Many Americans have already bought their last car -- they just don't know it yet."

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    Quote Originally Posted by XTR View Post
    Granted that I'm not a pro rider, and while I did race NORBA in sport class for years I've never competed in a road race. That said, back in 1992 when I first started getting serious about riding I was taught to try to hold a 90 cadence on the road and to this day that's where I run. If I ride a long reasonably flat ride my 305 will show an average cadence of about 88 or 89. So if 90 is high then it's surely not a new "fad".

    I did have to learn to lower my cadence for MTB riding. I rode on the road for a long time before I started racing MTBs. On a MTB you can't sit the saddle and spin, you need a cadence that is low enough to let you pop up to float over bumps, but on any long climb I still sit and spin at about 90 if I've got a low enough gear that my 49yo legs can push it. In my experience pushing bigger gears with a slower cadence on long climbs causes lactic acid build up based on the how bad it hurts meter.
    I got into single speeding the last few years. I use to sit and spin away but the SS taught me to get out of the saddle and work the bike, but conversely it also taught me to sit and spin because you only have one gear. It is a great training tool and makes you a stronger rider and faster when you get back on your geared bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howzit View Post
    Exactly.

    It is a fad because Lance claims 90-110 is special and no other riders do it.
    Like I said, I trained at 125 when I was U23.
    Pretty much every pro rides around 90rpm. Im not sure why all of a sudden it became a tend or became a fad when riders have been doing it for decades.
    And thats why Im wondering if the craze is over now, and fans are realizing that they got caught up in media hype.
    The articles I linked to claim otherwise. I always thought in all of his TT's his cadence looked much faster than most of the other riders.

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