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Old 07-15-04, 09:34 AM   #1
CarlJStoneham
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Alex Merckx is a baby

From cyclingnews.com: For his part, Merckx complained bitterly after Stage 10 that Virenque had not abided by the agreement they had made once the lead duo realized that they could likely get to Saint-Flour ahead of the rest of the Tour peloton. "There wasn't a whole lot I could do, (once Virenque attacked)," said Merckx. "On the first category climb, Richard went stronger. We had agreed that he was going to take all the points for the mountains jersey then afterwards we would fight for the finish here and not before. But I guess he has a hard time keeping his word."


If you can't ride like your old man, don't whine about it. Put or shut up.
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Old 07-15-04, 09:41 AM   #2
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Did he really expect to be able to stay with Virenque on those climbs?
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Old 07-15-04, 09:46 AM   #3
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Who's Alex Merckx??
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Old 07-15-04, 10:10 AM   #4
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Who's Alex Merckx??
I think he may be some kind of estranged twin of Axel's.
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Old 07-15-04, 10:17 AM   #5
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He's just like his father, well except his father could at least ride.
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Old 07-15-04, 10:21 AM   #6
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He's just like his father, well except his father could at least ride.

Yeah, his dad was a real crybaby.
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Old 07-15-04, 10:27 AM   #7
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I think he may be some kind of estranged twin of Axel's.


Oh that's right, the estranged dyslexic twin they have tried to keep hidden in the attic. Forgot about him.
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Old 07-15-04, 11:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by CarlJStoneham
From cyclingnews.com: For his part, Merckx complained bitterly after Stage 10 that Virenque had not abided by the agreement they had made once the lead duo realized that they could likely get to Saint-Flour ahead of the rest of the Tour peloton. "There wasn't a whole lot I could do, (once Virenque attacked)," said Merckx. "On the first category climb, Richard went stronger. We had agreed that he was going to take all the points for the mountains jersey then afterwards we would fight for the finish here and not before. But I guess he has a hard time keeping his word."


If you can't ride like your old man, don't whine about it. Put or shut up.
I'm certainly no Axel Merckx fan, but I will have to take the contrary view here. If Virenque made an agreement (which MANY are made on the road), and then boned Merckx on their agreement, I gotta side with Axel on this one.

BTW, quit comparing poor Axel with his dad. It's simply not fair to make that comparison.
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Old 07-15-04, 02:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bac
I'm certainly no Axel Merckx fan, but I will have to take the contrary view here. If Virenque made an agreement (which MANY are made on the road), and then boned Merckx on their agreement, I gotta side with Axel on this one.

BTW, quit comparing poor Axel with his dad. It's simply not fair to make that comparison.
by all accounts i read, virenque was the schmuck in this set up. he admitted they had a deal. anyone watching knew they had a deal--why the hell would axel have been pulling through all the flats and up the early slopes only to let richard get every peak? now, if virenque hadn't broken the bargain, perhaps neither of them would have gotten the stage win. but i'm willing to bet that from now on virenque will have to attack alone, and his jumps will be marked much more closely...
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Old 07-15-04, 04:57 PM   #10
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lol. Didn't even seen the typo LOL. Alex. Heheh

Personally, I think that if Virenque had set a pace Axel could follow, the peloton would have "gobbled them up" easily. I think Virenque made a deal with Axel but when it became apparent that only some of Dad's jeans got passed to the son, he decided to take his chances... Axel got shown up and that's why he's mad.

Edit: lol. No idea why I put "jeans" instead of "genes", but it's too good to correct
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Old 07-15-04, 06:27 PM   #11
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became apparent that only som of Dad's jeans got passed to the son
G'day,

looks like Axel got the 70's tie dyeds.......will the flairs get caught in the chainring?

cheers,

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Old 07-15-04, 07:52 PM   #12
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"Sure Axel, I'll hang back here with you and maybe the Peloton won't catch us, and yeah, sure, let's roll to the finish line together here on Bastille Day and sure, as a climber I'm sure I'll win the sprint"

I know you don't have to be Einstein to ride a bike, but geez.
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Old 07-16-04, 12:31 AM   #13
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Yeah....quit that whining, Axel Merckx!!! Being the cunning veteran, Virenque did what was right......no sense in slowing down on that Cat. 1 climb once he got his rhythm going. Virenque is obviously NOT a man to be trusted.
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Old 07-16-04, 07:45 AM   #14
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Virenque did what was right
Breaking an agreement made on the road is doing what's right? IMHO, he did what was right for him to win the stage, but that's where it ends. I guess Axel should have known (given RV's doping history) that Richard was/is a cheat, and would have no problem deceiving him. However, that doesn't make it "right".
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Old 07-16-04, 12:16 PM   #15
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So I guess the question is: how long do you hold an agreement? By this, I mean if you make a deal and it becomes apparent at some point that the other person isn't able to keep up, is it OK to drop 'em? Not sure if this is wat happened, but if they hit the climb and Axel is just sucking wind, is it OK for Virenque to speed on? This is what I thought happened but I did't see the breakaway the whole time so I have no idea who did the most work before Virenque left Axel...
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Old 07-16-04, 12:27 PM   #16
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So I guess the question is: how long do you hold an agreement? By this, I mean if you make a deal and it becomes apparent at some point that the other person isn't able to keep up, is it OK to drop 'em? Not sure if this is wat happened, but if they hit the climb and Axel is just sucking wind, is it OK for Virenque to speed on? This is what I thought happened but I did't see the breakaway the whole time so I have no idea who did the most work before Virenque left Axel...
"To thine own self be true." Polonius

Ask yourself what you would have done, sit up and lose everything because Axel could no longer hold the pace? I mean it's not like Virenque was abandoning him on the field at the Battle of the Bulge. It's just a bike race, and Axel shouldn't expect others to give up their opportunities for spur of the moment contracts, especially if he couldn't keep up his end of the bargain.

The self righteous Virenque haters out there will never see good in anything he does, they will continue to dredge up the past in an attempt to discredit anything he does, so why should he be false to himself just to satisfy the critics?

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Old 07-16-04, 02:05 PM   #17
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After watching the stage, I'm not sure Virenque consciously attacked. To me it looks like he got up out of the saddle to keep tempo and Merckx was not able to keep up. I believe I even read the same in one of the expert's analysis on the OLN site.
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Old 07-16-04, 02:11 PM   #18
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It is quite common for climbers to wait for the flat landers to get over the hills in a long break, If they deem them useful on the flats.

Richard had 30 seconds on him at the summit, he could have waited for him, and used him on the flat/downhill run to the finish. If Virenque really didn't attack, and it was just that Axle had cracked, some one made the decision that he wasn't needed, and he was left.
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Old 07-16-04, 02:17 PM   #19
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Virenque knew that if he and Axel actually managed to get to the line ahead of the pack, there was no way he was going to win the sprint. And Virenque was determined that the French people should have a French winner on Bastile day.
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Old 07-16-04, 02:45 PM   #20
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I think the uphill finish would have suited Tricky Dick, but alas we will never know.....

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Old 07-16-04, 02:59 PM   #21
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It is quite common for climbers to wait for the flat landers to get over the hills in a long break, If they deem them useful on the flats.

Richard had 30 seconds on him at the summit, he could have waited for him, and used him on the flat/downhill run to the finish. If Virenque really didn't attack, and it was just that Axle had cracked, some one made the decision that he wasn't needed, and he was left.
If he only had 30 secs on him at the top of the hill, and they were both riding alone at that point, and Merckx was as strong as Virenque or if not as strong at least strong enough to help him stay away, and they both had to ride over the same terrain alone, why did Virenque finish alone and Merckx get caught?

It appears to me that Virenque would have had to do all the work to keep the break away.

In fact, between the summit of the Peyrol and the finish, Virenque lost 4'33" to the peloton and Merckx lost 9'52"! Merckx even sat up with 25km to go and waited for the peloton according to Cyclingnews.com's live report.

Merckx didn't have it that day and Virenque did, plain and simple.
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Old 07-16-04, 03:49 PM   #22
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Merckx didn't have it that day and Virenque did, plain and simple.
We are in Agreement, my original post said "could have" not "should have"
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