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Old 07-18-04, 06:25 PM   #1
shaq-d
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isn't it a bit on the hilarious side that many of lance's supposed contenders this year were once lance's domestiques? ok, maybe only two: heras and hamilton. anyway, i must say i get some satisfaction seeing heras suffer this tour, while azevedo, his replacement, is aces high. it just goes to show the reason heras was so great was because he _trained with armstrong_, not because heras is heras. same thing with hamilton, except hamilton came away from his USPS experience with a good training regiment (his bike skills, however, are another matter). but in my opinion the azevedo/heras phenomenon is indicative of the "armstrong effect": people that train with and ride with armstrong (and bruyneel) reach their highs. that's a true indication of leadership. the "USPS train" wasn't the train it is now through luck; armstrong and co has whipped these boys into awesome shape, and every year the train has been better. i bet the so-called training rides these guys went on for 3 weeks before the tour were insane...

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Old 07-18-04, 06:36 PM   #2
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Don't forget Leipheimer.

Also, Heras is a great rider, but he was better off at Postal in my opinion. But still, he won the Vuelta twice (once with Kelme, so there goes your "Heras is better because he trained with Lance" theory), that is no small feat.

Azevedo had a top 10 placing with ONCE under "perpetual loser" Manolo Saiz. It's not just Lance and Bruyneel.

Really, do you watch any other races than the Tour?
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Old 07-18-04, 07:47 PM   #3
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G'day,

what a load of crap!......Did it ever occur to you that UPS & armstrong simply hire the very best available riders to be part of the team. The team is the sum of the riders....not a bunch of untalented hacks made into something great by Lance!. Sure these guys all benefit from the disiplines required to support Lance...no question...but this is what the get PAID to do. All Bruyneel & armstrong have to do with it is have a single focused plan & a large budget to pay these guys.......yep, I reckon Jan & Tyler, mayo & even Mick Rogers could win the tour with this team...lance didn't make these guys great...what he did do was gave them an opportunity to participate in something great...they still hadda do it,

cheers,

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Old 07-18-04, 08:19 PM   #4
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Yup, nobody participating in the TDF could ride a bicycle at all until Lance taught em'.

Lance, Bruyneel, and a huge USPS budget single handedly created all the champions we see in todays TDF peloton
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Old 07-18-04, 09:55 PM   #5
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I agree that the USPS riders are better prepared, physically, mentally, and medically
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Old 07-18-04, 10:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchy
G'day,

what a load of crap!......Did it ever occur to you that UPS & armstrong simply hire the very best available riders to be part of the team. The team is the sum of the riders....not a bunch of untalented hacks made into something great by Lance!. Sure these guys all benefit from the disiplines required to support Lance...no question...but this is what the get PAID to do. All Bruyneel & armstrong have to do with it is have a single focused plan & a large budget to pay these guys.......yep, I reckon Jan & Tyler, mayo & even Mick Rogers could win the tour with this team...lance didn't make these guys great...what he did do was gave them an opportunity to participate in something great...they still hadda do it,

cheers,

Hitchy
Couldn't have said it much better myself with one exception, I don't think Jan, Tyler and Mick are interchangeable with Lance.
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Old 07-18-04, 11:49 PM   #7
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shrug. i didn't mean to say lance made them. of course not. simply that lance is the best leader by a landslide. replace lance with jan tyler etc., and the postal team wouldn't be half as good and the train wouldn't be half as strong. lance is the reason the team kicks ass. as for having the best riders, i dunno, i still think CSC has the best riders, rider for rider...

oh, as an aside, i don't watch any of the races besides the tour. woe is us in canada

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Old 07-19-04, 12:06 AM   #8
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simply that lance is the best leader by a landslide. replace lance with jan tyler etc., and the postal team wouldn't be half as good
G'day,

I can't disagree with most of this statement, although i'm not convinced that with the same single minded focus as UPS has on the TDF, that some of these other guys wouldn't win in Lances place. Of course without Lance, the focus would likely be broadened anyway. There's little doubt that UPS has raised the bar on performance & preparation for this event. If that's what you were on about, I wouldn't disagree,

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Old 07-19-04, 12:40 AM   #9
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ullrich's team and tyler's team were definitely single-minded for the tour this year. it's a mistake to think either that the other teams weren't thus-minded or had less money.

yeah, i'm on about how great lance's team is, and then i thought -- but wait, if you just put all these riders together it's not like they would be this good... if ullrich led the same team there wouldn't be a "telekom train", but when lance leads, people talk about the "usps train".. it's the fact that lance leads them..

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Old 07-19-04, 06:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchy
G'day,

i'm not convinced that with the same single minded focus as UPS...There's little doubt that UPS has raised the bar on performance & preparation for this event.
Hitchy

I agree. Dale Jarett has to concentrate on winning more than just Daytona. [edit: insert sarcastic smiley thing here.]
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