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Old 07-25-04, 10:04 AM   #1
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Lance in court?

Watching OLN today and the finish, actually right now I am watching it. But wondering, Al was talking about a court case against another rider. Apparently I missed the 411 on it. Can anyone fill me in? Thanks.
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Old 07-25-04, 10:13 AM   #2
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Liggett said it was Simioni or "Simeoni", or whatever.

Liggett said he couldn't discuss it, for legal reasons.
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Old 07-25-04, 10:14 AM   #3
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So no insider news?
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Old 07-25-04, 10:25 AM   #4
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there's some information on the "Gilbert Simoni" thread:
Gilberto Simoni, but some of the posters were getting the two riders (Simoni and Simeoni) mixed up, which has obviously confused us all , so you have to sift through the posts.

I think it's something to do with someone called 'Dr Ferrari', and doping allegations.
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Old 07-25-04, 11:52 AM   #5
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Ok.
In testifying about Doping Simeoni (NOT SIMONI) made some
accusations about Dr. Michelli Ferrari.
Lance (who has consulted with Ferrari) called Simeoni a liar, and that
all he (simeoni) wanted to do was trash pro cycling.
Simeoni filed a slander suit against Armstrong (about the time
of last years tour).
The two have been battling since.

Marty
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Old 07-25-04, 04:15 PM   #6
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thats about right.
Simeoni also testified in court (after being caught doping) that Dr Michelli Ferrari was the doctor who provided the drugs.
Since Dr Ferrari is a close friend of Armstrong's he took it personally and called Simeoni a liar.
Simeoni also allegded that all top pro's are doping hence all the drama.
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Old 07-25-04, 08:02 PM   #7
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so is Simeoni the good guy here then?
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Old 07-26-04, 10:22 AM   #8
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sorry to ask again, but based on this quote I get the feeling that potentially Lance is the 'bad guy' by consulting with a Dr. who seems to support some kind of doping. Is this the case? If so, why did Lance chase down Simeoni in the last stage? is there a thread that puts this all into perspective or can someone do that here? thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
Ok.
In testifying about Doping Simeoni (NOT SIMONI) made some
accusations about Dr. Michelli Ferrari.
Lance (who has consulted with Ferrari) called Simeoni a liar, and that
all he (simeoni) wanted to do was trash pro cycling.
Simeoni filed a slander suit against Armstrong (about the time
of last years tour).
The two have been battling since.

Marty
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Old 07-26-04, 10:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gringorio
sorry to ask again, but based on this quote I get the feeling that potentially Lance is the 'bad guy' by consulting with a Dr. who seems to support some kind of doping. Is this the case? If so, why did Lance chase down Simeoni in the last stage? is there a thread that puts this all into perspective or can someone do that here? thanks!
You'll have to determine who the "good" guys and "bad" guys are here. We certainly don't know all of the information about the case. The case is supposed to go before the Italian court this fall.

Lance has been associated with Dr. Ferrari for many years and hasn't backed down from his defense of the Dr. and his association with him. I don't see any way that Simeoni is the "good" guy in all of this as he was caught doping, and then he pointed the finger at Ferrari. It's hard to say with Lance. He could be totally telling the truth and then who could blame him for his comments about Simeoni and subsequently chasing his break attempts in the Tour. Or he didn't know what he was talking about and shouldn't have commented. It's all speculation until the case goes to court.

I don't think chasing Simeoni down was such a bad thing. At the least he was found to be doping which gives cycling a bad name. He also seemed to give racing a bad name by implicating the top cyclists, many of whom are probably innocent.

By the way, Lance didn't chase down Simeoni in the last stage, it was actually stage 18. In the last stage, Postal chased him down after he tried to escape during the first kilometer. Traditionally, the first part of the final stage is a time for all of the prize winners to celebrate, drink champagne, take pictures, etc. Simeoni tried to escape when the four jersey winners (or presumed winners) were at the front of the stage having pictures taken. It was just seen as bad form and nobody else would have gotten away with it either.
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Old 07-26-04, 11:35 AM   #10
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thanks for the info!
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Old 07-26-04, 12:01 PM   #11
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Yes, Thanks for the info. This will be interesting to watch it unfold, once it does go to trial.
Hasn't Lance already passed the new drug test? If I am not mistaken, he was the first one give the revised test, and he passed.
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Old 07-26-04, 12:43 PM   #12
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True, but these guys are taking "recovery agents" that are unknown to WADA, or the UCI. They won't show up, becuause there is not test for them. Once someone goofs up and leaves the remains laying around, or gets caught with them in their trunk, an investigation goes on, and if the substance is judged to be performance enhancing, then it is added to the list. But up until then, technically it is "not illegal" Like when Postal got caught tossing empty packages of actovegin in the trash. No one ever seems to talk about that.........

WADA has added language to the anti-doping code to try and cover the broad base of effects that doping products have, but they can't think of everything, and there are lots of "dual use" products out there.

One team doctor had cleared 155 different products with the Medical Commissare this year. 155 products for 9 athletes, and thats just the stuff they declared.

So does Postal use "performance enhancing substances" sure, but that does not mean they use "banned substances"

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Old 07-26-04, 01:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek
Ok.
In testifying about Doping Simeoni (NOT SIMONI) made some
accusations about Dr. Michelli Ferrari.
Lance (who has consulted with Ferrari) called Simeoni a liar, and that
all he (simeoni) wanted to do was trash pro cycling.
Simeoni filed a slander suit against Armstrong (about the time
of last years tour).
The two have been battling since.

Marty
There's more now. Apparently, Lance was "intimidating a witness" when he bridged the gap to Simeoni on stage #18, and pulled Simeoni back into the field:

Intimidating a Witess? I call it bike racing.

What's next? Maybe Kloden will now have grounds to sue Armstrong after Lance beat him in the sprint on stage #17? After all, Kloden will have to live with the mental stress of that loss for the rest of his life! Cut me a break. Simeoni suing Lance because Lance called him a liar? What a complete joke! However, this "intimidating a witness" crap is soooooo far out there it's comical.
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Old 07-28-04, 12:35 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bac
There's more now. Apparently, Lance was "intimidating a witness" when he bridged the gap to Simeoni on stage #18, and pulled Simeoni back into the field:

Intimidating a Witess? I call it bike racing.

What's next? Maybe Kloden will now have grounds to sue Armstrong after Lance beat him in the sprint on stage #17? After all, Kloden will have to live with the mental stress of that loss for the rest of his life! Cut me a break. Simeoni suing Lance because Lance called him a liar? What a complete joke! However, this "intimidating a witness" crap is soooooo far out there it's comical.
I know you were joking, but it looks like truth is stranger than fiction. I'll let this piece from cyclingnews.com speak for itself:



Italian police question Simeoni

Filippo Simeoni yesterday spent three hours in the company of investigators from the Italian drug squad answering questions about the incident in stage 18 of the Tour de France in which Lance Armstrong chased down an attack by Simeoni.

According to a report from AFP, the investigators are considering bringing charges against Armstrong for sporting fraud, violence, and intimidation of a witness.

Simeoni gave evidence in 2002 in the investigation and trial of Italian sports doctor Michele Ferrari, after himself being questioned by the Italian drug squad in 1999 after raids found substances in the houses of several Italian riders. After initially saying he had obtained "other medications" in Switzerland, Simeoni later claimed Ferrari had prescribed him EPO.

In an interview with Le Monde in April 2003, Lance Armstrong, who has consulted with Dr Ferrari, accused Simeoni of lying. Simeoni subsequently said he had initiated legal action for defamation against Armstrong.

In stage 18 of this year's Tour de France, Simeoni bridged across to the early break (which subsequently stayed away and contained the stage winner) but was chased down by Armstrong. When the other riders in the break asked Armstrong to return to the peloton so that they'd have a chance of staying away, he said he would only do so if Simeoni returned to the peloton as well. Both riders dropped back to the main bunch.

Dr Ferrari discussed the case at length in this Cyclingnews interview.
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Old 07-28-04, 07:28 AM   #15
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I've been and remain uncomfortable with LA chasing Simeoni in part to defend Ferrari. The Dr. is on record with this statement: "EPO is no more dangerous than OJ." I think it's time for a little distance but I'm not LA's advisor.

The Italians will end up shooting themselves in the foot here. The potential "charges" are just plain silly. LA has shown an interest in the Giro and the Giro organizers desperately want LA. However, if LA feels wronged or is fearful of midnight raids and/or subpoenas I can't see him going.

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Old 07-28-04, 08:24 AM   #16
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And we all know that OJ was guilty as a mo-fo.
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Old 07-28-04, 12:57 PM   #17
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Dr Ferrari has been misquoted. He never said "EPO is no more dangerous than OJ."

What he DID say was, when asked about the dangers of EPO, was that EPO in and of itself if NOT dangerous. It is a theraputic drug. (Lance knows all too well the theraputic effects) What is dangerous is the ABUSE of the drug. Here is the text of the actual statement which I got from cyclingnews' reprint of the text of the original interview...
++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jean-Michel Rouet: Speaking of EPO, do your riders use it?

Dr Michele Ferrari: I don't prescribe this stuff. But one can buy EPO in Switzerland for example without a prescription, and if a rider does, that doesn't scandalize me. EPO doesn't fundamentally change the performance of a racer.

J-MR: In any case, (EPO) is dangerous! Ten Dutch riders have died in the last few years.

Dr MF: EPO is not dangerous, it's the abuse that is. It's also dangerous to drink 10 liters of orange juice
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It's actually a sidebar to a pretty interesting article/ interview regarding Lance's relationship with Dr Ferrari.
Read it here Ferrari Interview
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Old 07-28-04, 01:06 PM   #18
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The fact is , you can buy EPO anywhere . It is a natural horemone made in the kidneys . It best used by people over 60 to counter the steep drop in their red blood cell count that may be linked to some forms of dementia . My guess is lance sleeps high and trains low . He uses a altitude tent which is legal and also raises the red blood cell count . Thats just my Guess
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Old 07-28-04, 01:08 PM   #19
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It also works well for patients who've had millions of red blood cells killed by chemotherapy drugs.
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Old 07-28-04, 01:25 PM   #20
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Good link to the story, thanks Chip
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