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Old 07-25-04, 09:59 PM   #1
Falchoon
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Should riders be allowed to take drugs?

This is sort of a tongue-in-cheek question after reading the other thread about Lance. It would make a level playing field then if everybody was allowed to take whatever performance enhancing drug they chose. Downside is there would probably be less riders as some would probably drop dead from drug OD or their hearts would explode from riding at unsustainble speeds.

There seems to be such a fine line between legal and illegal "substances" that can be taken, it seems that it would be easier just to allow anything and everything and that then the first person over the line is declared the winner and not disqualified for for some drug that may or may not of even been taken to enhance performance (eg oitment for saddle sores).
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Old 07-26-04, 08:10 AM   #2
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NO

If you're going to do that might as well put an engine in it and then race those instead.
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Old 07-26-04, 08:42 AM   #3
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It would not be fair to those who choose not to take them for health and safety concerns or for what ever reasons.
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Old 07-26-04, 11:54 AM   #4
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I'm not into sports and sure am not an athlete.I think taking drugs to improve your performance is a bad idea though. You would not get as much credit as you deserve because people would assume it was because of whatever drug you used.
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Old 07-26-04, 12:05 PM   #5
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I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs, personally. If they want to do it, go ahead. It's science. If someone comes up with a cutting edge training program that enables to give themselves a boost over the rest of the field - should that be banned?
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Old 07-26-04, 12:42 PM   #6
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If someone comes up with a cutting edge training program that enables to give themselves a boost over the rest of the field - should that be banned?
No, because that's just maximizing natural human performance. Doping artificially enhances human performance.
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Old 07-26-04, 01:00 PM   #7
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That's okay. Still doesn't bother me.

Have any of you competed professionally?
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Old 07-26-04, 01:10 PM   #8
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It's not like the riders get off the bikes, have a club sandwich and a bottle of mineral water. Everyone gets IV hydration, vitamin injections, etc.

There is a vast assortment of pharmacueticals being used in Pro Cycling, as in all pro sports. And it has been going on in cycling for over 100 years.

It is up to the governing bodies as to decide what is legal and what is not, and it is the job of the team doctors to get away with as much "preparation" as they can.

I do not have a lot of faith in the testing. Look at David Miller, 8 year pro, never tested positive, he got caught beacuse he left shet lying around his house.


These guys are taking "recovery agents" that are unknown to WADA, or the UCI. They won't show up, becuause there is not test for them. Once someone goofs up and leaves the remains laying around, or gets caught with them in their trunk, an investigation goes on, and if the substance is judged to be performance enhancing, then it is added to the list. But up until then, technically it is "not illegal" Like when Postal got caught tossing empty packages of actovegin in the trash. No one ever seems to talk about that.........

WADA has added language to the anti-doping code to try and cover the broad base of effects that doping products have, but they can't think of everything, and there are lots of "dual use" products out there.

One team doctor had cleared 155 different products with the Medical Commissare this year. 155 products for 9 athletes, and thats just the stuff they declared.

So does Postal use "performance enhancing substances" sure, but that does not mean they use "banned substances"
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Old 07-26-04, 02:37 PM   #9
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The thing I always found stupid was that most flu or cold medicine will cause you to fail a drugs test, presumably due to the decongestion ingredients being steroidal in nature.
Drug testing in most sports is a joke since the testers are always two steps behind. The line between a "vitamin supplement" and a "performance enhancing drug" is razor thin depending on legalese definitions, imprecise tests and the whim of the governing body.
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Old 07-26-04, 03:08 PM   #10
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Either way, the bottomline is anything you take that artificially enhances your performance testable or not is ethically wrong.

We want to see natural human performance.
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Old 07-26-04, 04:00 PM   #11
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What's your take on supplements and PH?
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Old 07-26-04, 07:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil
What's your take on supplements and PH?
G'day,

interesting discussion!.....anyone who has done any cycle racing at all, has used 'performance enhancing' substances. I've been racing for 30 years & have lost count of the 'performance enhancing' substances I have taken!......protein powders for muscle rcovery, creatine, in bar, powder & liquid forms, stuff for anti oxigents, free radicals...etc etc......the current favorite is something called 'glutamine' which the 'coaching nazi' assures me is 'legal' (at the moment!)....if you get down to it....gatorade & power bars are 'performance enhancing'.......but none are illegal. Illegal drugs in cycling is cheating....rules are rules....I'm fine with everyone taking everything if they want....but then perhaps we should just have the chemists in their white coats race...cos the guy with the best chemist, (all else being equal) will win everything.Hmmmmwe could have those 6 day cycling events (track) that are popular in Europe....without stopping at all!.....hmmm..Alp d'huez time trial.....8 .4 minutes!...yahoo......but its not really a sport anymore is it?.....yeah, i reckon millionares could race chemists instead of racehorses!.........

cheers,

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Old 07-26-04, 07:41 PM   #13
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EPO, actovegin, CERA, all that stuff only goes so far to enhance performance. It's still the athlete that does most of the work.

I don't think glutamine will ever be illegal, btw. It's perfectly natural, and L-glutamine, an amino acid that's found in the skeletal muscles, protein powders, fish, etc.. It reduces deterioration in skeletal muscles.
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Old 07-26-04, 07:52 PM   #14
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I don't think glutamine will ever be illegal, btw. It's perfectly natural, and L-glutamine, an amino acid that's found in the skeletal muscles, protein powders, fish, etc.. It reduces deterioration in skeletal muscles.
G'day,

hopefully you're right....the 'coaching nazi' got a deal for this stuff for us....i've got about 2 years worth at home....along with other vials & tins & powders & drinks that I can't even remember what they are for anymore!...look if we wanna have doping, lets have doping....but don't call it sport anymore!,

cheers

Hitchy
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Old 07-26-04, 07:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by operator
Either way, the bottomline is anything you take that artificially enhances your performance testable or not is ethically wrong.

We want to see natural human performance.
My point was that there's no such thing as totally natural human performance in professional cycling since they all take vitamin supplements, etc out the wazoo. Just because it's legal doesn't exactly make it natural. To extend Hitchey's example, you don't see to many rivers of gatorade or trees bearing powerbars.

Paul
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Old 07-26-04, 07:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchy
G'day,

hopefully you're right....the 'coaching nazi' got a deal for this stuff for us....i've got about 2 years worth at home....along with other vials & tins & powders & drinks that I can't even remember what they are for anymore!...look if we wanna have doping, lets have doping....but don't call it sport anymore!,

cheers

Hitchy
I googled for glutamine and found this interesting article:

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/su...s-benefits.htm
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Old 07-26-04, 08:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulBravey
I googled for glutamine and found this interesting article:

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/su...s-benefits.htm
g'day Paul,

thanks for the article....whilst the majority of what it says is accurate, I always worry about 'claimed benefits' when they are also trying to sell you the product that they are reviewing!. Whilst I may joke about it, I never 'take' anything until I have researched the product & know exactly what i'm taking it for.....anyone would be foolish to take 'stuff' without understanding why, or on the say so of someone with a vested interest.The 'coaching nazi' got us into a lecture by an eminent expert on this type of stuff when we contemplated using it. We were able to ask questions etc form someone totally independent. BTW. most of the answers were similar to whats in this article,

cheers,

Hitchy
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Old 07-26-04, 08:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil
EPO, actovegin, CERA, all that stuff only goes so far to enhance performance. It's still the athlete that does most of the work.

I don't think glutamine will ever be illegal, btw. It's perfectly natural, and L-glutamine, an amino acid that's found in the skeletal muscles, protein powders, fish, etc.. It reduces deterioration in skeletal muscles.

EPO is produced naturally in the body too, as is Human Growthe Hormone, and Insulin, testasterone, etc...

raising ones hematocrit from 41 to 49% is a 20% increase in oxygen carrying capability...Thats huge!
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Old 07-26-04, 08:47 PM   #19
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Yes, but still - it can only take you so far. It won't turn a Magnus Backstedt into a Lance Armstrong or Eddy Merckx.
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Old 07-26-04, 08:54 PM   #20
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Really I do wish they would ban the environment tents, the special supplements, etc..and make it pure physical form and strength.....but that is hell to enforce, so I know it will never happen.
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Old 07-26-04, 09:09 PM   #21
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It won't turn a Magnus Backstedt into a Lance Armstrong or Eddy Merckx
G'day,

Nope...you need chemotherapy & lotsa other drugs for that........
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Old 07-30-04, 02:01 PM   #22
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I don't like it, necessarily.
The reason is... there are some drugs that would end up creating situations where the one who is most willing to risk their life will win. Who dares to have the highest hematocrit, take the most steroids... etc.

Pro cyclists use drugs, but it isn't at that state that I just explained, thanks to testing.
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