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  1. #1
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Indurain vs. Armstrong

    Both were the dominate time trial riders of their time. My question is, putting aside different equipment, who was the better TT rider?

    To me it's a toss up.
    i may have overreacted

  2. #2
    Bring the tech Ajay213's Avatar
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    Hard to say, but I'd give the slight nod to Indurain. I've never seen Lance totally defeat the competition the way Indurain did, putting 3+ minutes over the 2nd place riders, etc.

    But then again I have to wonder if we've even seen Lance give an all-out effort, like on Saturday's ITT he put 47 seconds on the field at the first time check, which then stayed much more steady (growing about what, 20 seconds for the rest of the 30+km). Which is the smart way to ride the TT when you are so far ahead, why risk going down or missing a corner. Last years final ITT was going to be a hell of a run, and if I'm not mistaken before Jan's crash (and before the more complex piece of the course) those two guys were pushing LeMond's record for a much longer course.

    I guess we'll know a little better if/when Lance decides to go for the hour record.

    Andrew

  3. #3
    Since Ever Since Devil's Avatar
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    It's really close. Both are the best time trialists in the history of the Tour, I'd say.

    I really can't choose. Too bad they could never go head to head in their primes.

  4. #4
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    Indurain.. why?

    Year 1984

    Team Reynolds
    3rd.- Criterium Community of Navarra (Spain)


    Year 1985

    Team Reynolds
    2nd.- Route of the Sun (Spain)


    Year 1986

    Team Reynolds
    1st.- Tour of l' Avenir (France)
    1st.- Tour of Murcia (Spain)
    3rd.- Classic of Zizurkil (Spain)
    1st.- Leitza (Spain)


    Year 1987

    Team Reynolds
    3rd.- Week Catalana (Spain)
    1st.-Tour of the Minning Valleys (Spain)
    1st.- Rise to the Txitxarro (Spain)
    1st.- Community of Navarra Trophy (Spain)
    1st.- Critérium C.F. of Navarra (Spain)
    2nd.- Great Award of Bilbao (Spain)


    Year 1988

    Team Reynolds
    1st.- Tour of Cataluña (Spain)
    2nd.- Jové-les-Tours (France)
    3rd.- Tour of Galicia (Spain)
    2nd.- Great Award of Bilbao (Spain)


    Year 1989

    Team Reynolds
    1st.- París-Niza (France)
    1st.- International Criterium
    2nd.- Rise to the Naranco (Spain)
    1st.- Criterium Community of Navarra (Spain)


    Year 1990

    Team Banesto
    3rd.- Spanish National Championship
    1st.- San Sebastian Classic (Spain)
    3rd.- Flecha Valona (Italy)
    1st.- París-Niza (France)
    1st.- Critérium of Tarnos (Italy)
    3rd.- Tour of País Vasco (Spain)
    3rd.- Tour of Asturias (Spain)
    3rd.- Tour of Burgos (Spain)


    Year 1991

    Team Banesto
    1st.- Tour de France (France)
    2nd.- Vuelta a España (Spain)
    3rd.- World Professional Road Race Championship
    1st.- Tour of Vaulcluse (France)
    1st.- Tour of Cataluña (Spain)
    3rd.- Bicycle Vasca (Spain)
    1st.- Rise to the Arrete (Spain)
    3rd.- Criterium Community of Navarra (Spain)
    1st.- Cinturón of Ronda (Spain)


    Year 1992

    Team Banesto
    1st.- Tour de France (France)
    1st.- Giro d' Italia (Italy)
    1st.- Spanish National Championship
    3rd.- París-Niza (France)
    2nd.- Tour of Romandia (France)
    3rd.- Tour of l'Oise (France)
    1st.- Tour of Cataluña (Spain)
    2nd.- Criterium Community of Navarra (Spain)


    Year 1993

    Team Banesto
    1st.- Tour de France (France)
    1st.- Giro d' Italia (Italy)
    2nd.- World Professional Road Race Championship
    2nd.- Spanish National Championship
    3rd.- Tour of Levante (Spain)
    1st.- Tour of los Puertos (Spain)
    1st.- Challenge Castilla-León (Spain)


    Year 1994

    Team Banesto
    1st.- Tour de France (France)
    3rd.- Giro d' Italia (Italy)
    1st.- Tour of l'Oise (France)
    2nd.- Tour of Levante (Spain)
    World Hour Record: 53.040 kms.
    Spanish National Record for 10 kms. - 11.20.097 h.
    Spanish National Record for 20 kms. - 22.38.510 h.


    Year 1995

    Team Banesto
    1st.- Tour de France (France)
    2nd.- World Professional Road Race Championship
    1st.- World Individual Time Trial Championship
    1st.- Dauphiné Liberé (France)
    1st.- Midi-Libre (France)
    2nd.- Colorado Cyclist Classic Stage Race (USA)
    1st.- Critérium of Moscow (Russia)
    3rd.- Tour of Asturias (Spain)
    1st.- Tour of Galicia (Spain)
    3rd.- Tour of the Minning Valleys (Spain)
    1st.- Tour of La Rioja (Spain)


    Year 1996

    Team Banesto
    1st.- Dauphiné Liberé (France)
    1st.- Tour of the Alentejo (Spain)
    1st.- Bicycle Vasca (Spain)
    1st.- Tour of Asturias (Spain)
    Gold Medal CRI of the Olimpic Games Atlanta '96 (USA)
    1º XXI Criterium Ciutat de L'Hospitalet (Spain)
    1º VIII Criterium Community of Navarra (Spain)
    1º V Critérium of Valladolid City (Spain)
    1º VII Internacional Criterium Community of Valencia (Spain)
    2º Criterium Sport and Life in Fuenlabrada (Spain)
    2º Los Puertos Classic. (Spain)
    2º Tour of Burgos (Spain)
    2º Criterium of Malaga City (Spain)

  5. #5
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    Wow.

    Thanks for putting that all into perspective. Looks like he could have gone on for longer if he felt like it. The older Indurain got, the more races he did well in!

    Koffee

  6. #6
    Since Ever Since Devil's Avatar
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    I think you guys missed the point.

    Laggard asked who was the better TT rider (time trialist for the uninformed). Not the better all around rider or who has the better palmares.

  7. #7
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    Indurain did have the advantage of unlimited technolgy, but Armstrong has limits on the frame geometry and weight.
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  8. #8
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devil
    I think you guys missed the point.

    Laggard asked who was the better TT rider (time trialist for the uninformed). Not the better all around rider or who has the better palmares.
    Thanks, Devil.
    i may have overreacted

  9. #9
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    Indurain was like an Ullrich without the bad habits- skinnier, more dedicated, all power. Tough to back against in long races and also good in prologue-type sprints. Armstrong is probably the better all-rounder, would probably shade him on hillier tests and almost certainly take the mountain TT's.

    If my life depended on the outcome, I'd............

    wait and look at the course profile;-)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard
    Both were the dominate time trial riders of their time. My question is, putting aside different equipment, who was the better TT rider?

    To me it's a toss up.
    Indurain...but not by much. I don't think Armstrong could do the hour like Indo, and on the flats Indurain looked like a locomotive...

  11. #11
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    On a flat TT course my nod would go to Indurain. I don't think anyone
    put out the pure power that he does.
    On an uphill or roller type of TT, pretty much a toss up.
    If it were L'Alpe D'Huez, or Ventoux Armstrong by a large margin,
    Big Mig was able to hang on in the mountains but never dominated.

    As for Big Mig's dominance and huge time gaps over 2nd, etc. I don't
    seem to recall any other big TT riders of the time. Is this perhaps
    why he seemed so dominant?

    Marty
    Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
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  12. #12
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    Lotek...

    don't forget Tony Rominger. Good TT guy and hour record holder.

    Didn't get much change from Indurain, though!

  13. #13
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    Armstrong is definitely stronger on the moutain but Indurain even if he could, he wouldnt break away and leave everyone behind. He normally had a big time advantage once the mountain came or he knew he would make it up on the ITT. Many times he could have won or step up the tempo in the climb but he usually never did it and many many times he let the other guy take the stage - like Armstrong did with Basso (but without saying he let them win). He didnt have the take it all approach that Lance has, so he saved himself in the mountains, i dont think we will ever know how good he could have been there.

  14. #14
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaneur
    Lotek...

    don't forget Tony Rominger. Good TT guy and hour record holder.

    Didn't get much change from Indurain, though!
    Forgot about Rominger, I was thinking Tour only. . . Doh!

    Marty
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard
    Both were the dominate time trial riders of their time. My question is, putting aside different equipment, who was the better TT rider?

    To me it's a toss up.
    I would say a toss up as well
    Both were very consistantly dominant, in comparison to their rivals, and their TT rivals in particular.

  16. #16
    TX Ciclista CarlJStoneham's Avatar
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    I think you guys missed the point.
    Seems like you missed the point of all the other posts. Sounds to me like they were discussing the thread as intended: TTs. Not sure where you get the "Overall" and the "Palmeres" listing was to show all of Indurain's TT wins as support for the argument that he's better. Maybe I read a different thread...

    Anyway, Indurain, defintely, but Lance would be a tough contender...
    Last edited by CarlJStoneham; 08-18-04 at 02:06 PM.

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    Threres no use comparing them. Very different kind of racers, different type of men.

    Indurain is a peasant boy coming from and going back behind the wheel of the family tractor and his general manners are like that. Always meek and modest, with a kind smile of the simple villageman. Phisically he is just a tremenous build with the lungs and heart of a bison. And avoiding misunderstandings, he can break away even in the mountains, remember the 1995 Alpe D'Huez stage, when chasing Alex Zülle. And never was a one task rider. Not compareable with a boy living just from the start only of sports for sports and sports cars.

    And for a word to what is greatness: remember the 1995 road world championship. Breaking away (again) with Abraham Olano, who had a flat tyre in the last kms. Riding together Indurain pulled his breaks before the line. Giving somebody weaker a world championship for respect is something Armstrong could never imagine, he is too much a cruel professional for that.

  18. #18
    Coastal NC oneradtec's Avatar
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    I have followed both Armstrong and Indurain closely during their careers. I am a big fan of both these riders. I am of the opinion that Indurain was a much better time trialist..and Lance is a better climber. I'm not sure how they would fare against one another if both could meet on equal terms in a tour..both in their prime. My guess is that the Indurain we saw in the 1992 Tour de France was perhaps unbeatable. It's very close..but I say Indurain was a better time trialer. It was Indurains time trialing that won him so many races. He simply followed in the mountains. Lance attacks in the mountains...as he did in the 2003 race(when Ullrich didn't wait for him when he went down)

    Lest we forget..Greg lemond has ridden the fastest time trial of all time...1989

  19. #19
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    I'd have to say Indurain was the better TT rider. He more than crushed the competition.

  20. #20
    Coastal NC oneradtec's Avatar
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    also..it was Indurain's climbing that failed him in the '96 Tour...but it was his time trialing that won him the Olypic Gold medal just a few months removed from his crushing defeat in the tour. Again...Lance is a far better climber. Doesn't Lance hold the record for climbing Alpe 'dHuez?..and Indurain went up that climb many times and never set the(37 minutes) record.

  21. #21
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    I could be wrong but I think Pantani still holds the Alpe 'dHuez record and it was not a time trial when he set it.

  22. #22
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    Pantini still holds the record on the Alpe D Huez

  23. #23
    Senior Member DieselDan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dws5b
    I could be wrong but I think Pantani still holds the Alpe 'dHuez record and it was not a time trial when he set it.
    It was a road stage, but how doped up was he?
    Bikes use brakes to stop.

    If your bike has breaks, don't ride it.

  24. #24
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    Marco never tested positive for anything!

  25. #25
    Senior Member JoeOxfordCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dws5b
    Marco never tested positive for anything!

    I believe he was not aloud to race because his hemocrit levels were too high, way too high. I believe that elevated hemocrit levels are a sign of epo usage.

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