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  1. #1
    In Difficulty rygreen's Avatar
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    Good Article on Simeoni

    There's a good article on Simeoni, his doping admissions, and the whole TdF situation on The Daily Peloton...

    http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=6762

  2. #2
    Crank Crushing Redneck SamDaBikinMan's Avatar
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    One look at the palmares listed and it is no contest. Simeoni is a neophyte in comparison.

    Sounds like a severe case of jealosy to me.....

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    In Difficulty rygreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamDaBikinMan
    One look at the palmares listed and it is no contest. Simeoni is a neophyte in comparison.

    Sounds like a severe case of jealosy to me.....
    Unfortunately, you appear to have missed the point of the article. It's a nice piece on Simeoni, for those who know nothing about the guy. The palmares? Who cares? LA has more impressive palmares than just about everyone! Does this mean that everyone who accuses a doctor of providing him with EPO is jealous of LA? Please explain this to me, because I'm not understanding your logic.

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    Crank Crushing Redneck SamDaBikinMan's Avatar
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    OK....

  5. #5
    Senior, Senior Member ExMachina's Avatar
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    Is the article correct in asserting that a USPS rider spit on Simeoni after the chasedown on the final stage? Who was it??

  6. #6
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    Wait so this guy has admitted to doping, tried to implicate his coach with little more than circumstantial evidence, and now wants to sue Armstrong for calling him a liar?

    wow.

  7. #7
    bac
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExMachina
    Is the article correct in asserting that a USPS rider spit on Simeoni after the chasedown on the final stage? Who was it??
    I could be wrong, but I thought I saw Eki toss one up to Simeoni as Simeoni tried one of his "attacks" on the final, and largely ceremonial, day of racing. Again, I could be wrong. Anyone else see this???

  8. #8
    Adios, Mofo J-McKech's Avatar
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    There is a thread floating around that says Eki did a farmers blow, I didn't realize that it was towards simeoni..LOL! things are getting ugly in the peloton!
    I am Signature-less

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ...jeff
    Wait so this guy has admitted to doping, tried to implicate his coach with little more than circumstantial evidence, and now wants to sue Armstrong for calling him a liar?

    wow.

    my thinking exactly Jeff.
    And The doctor was implicated because in 1994 he supported the use of EPO in a controlled manner.
    An ounce off the wheels is worth 3 off the frame

  10. #10
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Good Article on Simeoni.
    Unfortunately everyone wants to see him as the bad guy, and Lance as
    the good guy. Sorry, There is no black and white here (at least IMHO).
    I respect Simeoni for his standing up and saying that doping exists,
    and his coping to his own doping.
    I can't comment on the original Lance statement, I haven't read Le Monde
    I'm not sure if I agree with the court case for libel (actually is it defamation
    of character?).
    It only gets more bizarre after this.
    Lance chases down simeoni (who repeatedly stated he wanted to break to
    make a statement, which from above article we can see he has done before).
    Lance in a move seen as petty, mean etc. shut it down.
    Eki aledgedly spits (blows snot?) on Simeoni (Eki is really out of line here if true).
    Now the italian court wants to haul Lance in for sporting fraud, Violence and
    intimidating a witness.
    Someone help me here, coz I don't see any violence, Lance did say he'd destroy
    Simeoni (in court?) but violence? again I don't see fraud (unless LA is proven to
    have been doping) Intimidation? yeah in the peloton, not anywhere else.

    So, here's my final take on this:
    Simeoni is a whiner, Lance is a bully and the Italian prosecutor who
    is gonna charge lance is an

    Marty
    Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

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  11. #11
    SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07 Walter's Avatar
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    Marty,

    2 things: First how did you make that icon? That's classic. If you want to keep it secret PM me, I pledge my recently acquired Motobecane that I'll keep silent.

    Second, how far do you think this court case against LA will go? I don't think very. I've heard LA is friends with one of the Giro organizers. LA has indicated a willingness to ride the Giro and the Giro desperately wants the man who has owned the TdF so I'm thinking pressure on prosecutor to shut up as LA won't come if he feels slighted or that he's going to get subpoenaed.

    Rereading this it does all sound more than a bit soap-operaish doesn't it?

    “Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
    Edna St. Vincent Millay

  12. #12
    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    This whole thing has gone so far into the realm of absurdity that I'm starting to suspect it was orchestrated by the late Andy Kaufman. I agree with what lotek has said.
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
    "Be liberal in what you accept, and conservative in what you send." -- Jon Postel, RFC1122

  13. #13
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    Walter,

    Its a special Test Icon, there are a few others that we are thinking about!
    The other one I really like is:

    Right now I'm just importing them.
    I'm hoping the case against lance (by the italian court, not Simeoni) doesn't go
    anywhere. I think it would be hard to prove at best.
    But then look at what the Italian Court did to Pantani
    makes you think, doesn't it?
    Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

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  14. #14
    Photog Extraordinaire Crack'n'fail's Avatar
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    It's all pretty pathetic. Not too much honorable happening with any of these guys in this situation.

    As for Ferrari, some of his explanations for things border on bizarre. Donating blood in the winter to lower your iron because it's too high? What?

    Simeoni seems a little suspect as well. But I'm not sure that I see what his motivation would be to bring down Ferrari if there weren't some truth to it all.

    Armstrong. . . well, I tell you, I'm a huge fan of his. I'm a little mixed up on how to feel about his behavior with Simeoni at the Tour. As a great champion he probably should have risen above it all and let Simeoni go. However, you need to understand that this kind of personal vendetta crap happens every day in the peloton, both in domestic US racing and in Europe. This one just happened to involve the Maillot Jaune, so everyone noticed it and discussed it.

  15. #15
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
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    I don't think the donate blood decrease Iron is too out of whack. I
    bet that what is replaced by the body does have lower iron content etc.
    One has to remember that alot of medical practice that we (the U.S) think is
    bizarre, or antiquated is common practice in Europe and elsewhere.
    We (the US) don't have a monopoly on medical treatments.

    Marty
    Sono più lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

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  16. #16
    SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07 Walter's Avatar
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    Test2




    COOL!!!!

    I owe you Marty.

    “Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
    Edna St. Vincent Millay

  17. #17
    Photog Extraordinaire Crack'n'fail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotek
    I don't think the donate blood decrease Iron is too out of whack. I
    bet that what is replaced by the body does have lower iron content etc.
    One has to remember that alot of medical practice that we (the U.S) think is
    bizarre, or antiquated is common practice in Europe and elsewhere.
    We (the US) don't have a monopoly on medical treatments.

    Marty
    You can lower your iron with your diet.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crack'n'fail
    You can lower your iron with your diet.
    You can control how much iron you ingest through diet.

    Your body will not remove the iron from your system by itself though. The only way to reduce your level of iron is by loosing blood. That is one of the major reasons that men and women have different vitamins - women loose iron during menstruation so they need to include it in their vitamins. Men don't bleed regularly so we don't need to ingest it.

  19. #19
    In Difficulty rygreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudbase
    Men don't bleed regularly so we don't need to ingest it.
    Years ago, I remember reading that the dead red blood cells are what makes your s**t brown. So I imagine that everyone (men and women) is constantly dumping old blood and making new.

  20. #20
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotek
    So, here's my final take on this:
    Simeoni is a whiner, Lance is a bully and the Italian prosecutor who
    is gonna charge lance is an

    Marty
    Nice Summary. My take, taken from another thread, is:

    When LA called Simeoni a liar, they were off the race course, so Simeoni can fairly respond off the race course. None of us know for sure whether Simeoni was telling the truth. If Simeoni wants to go to court to argue his honesty, let the chips fall where they may.

    LA's move against Simeoni in the TdF did taint the win a little, but it also falls in the long tradition of athletes settling scores in competition. And the whining of Italian fans falls in the long tradition of, well, whining by fans of all sports.

  21. #21
    meb
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    Daily Commute state: "...If Simeoni wants to go to court to argue his honesty, let the chips fall where they may...."

    At least under US/British defamationi laws, Simeoni needn't prove his honesty nor even his statements to be honest. Lance is alledged to have made the remarks-Simeoni needs to prove Lance made them. Lance needs prove that Simeoni lied/or can rebut allegations that he made those remarks. Simeoni CAN rebut Lance's evidence on the accuracy of Simeoni statements, but ultimately Lance needs prove that Simeoni was lying to prevail. Simeoni needs prove how much defamatory remarks damaged his reputation to compute damages. I presume the burden of proof on the accuracy of the defamatory remarks remains with the person making the allegations rather than the plaintiff, else Simeoni would have selected a differing legal forum to file his suit.

  22. #22
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    Hmmm...it's been a while, but I'll dust off the law school cob webs...
    In the US, the burden of proof in a civil trial is on the Plaintiff, and the standard is "preponderance of the evidence"..so just over 50% will do. Simeoni is the plaintiff here as he is suing Armstrong for slander (Lance calling Simeoni a liar). So Simeoni has to prove that Lance called him this with the intent to injure his reputation. Lance, on the other hand can try to show either (1) Simeoni IS a liar.. (truth is a defense), (2) there was not intent to injure reputation.

    With (1) burden of proof would be on Lance...with (2) burden would still be on Simeoni.

    I think that's how it would work in the US...not sure about other countries. If I'm off base in my legal analysis, you'll know why I dropped out of practicing law.

  23. #23
    Ride the Road Daily Commute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meb
    Daily Commute state: "...If Simeoni wants to go to court to argue his honesty, let the chips fall where they may...."

    At least under US/British defamationi laws, Simeoni needn't prove his honesty nor even his statements to be honest. Lance is alledged to have made the remarks-Simeoni needs to prove Lance made them. Lance needs prove that Simeoni lied/or can rebut allegations that he made those remarks. Simeoni CAN rebut Lance's evidence on the accuracy of Simeoni statements, but ultimately Lance needs prove that Simeoni was lying to prevail. Simeoni needs prove how much defamatory remarks damaged his reputation to compute damages. I presume the burden of proof on the accuracy of the defamatory remarks remains with the person making the allegations rather than the plaintiff, else Simeoni would have selected a differing legal forum to file his suit.
    I don't know who has the burden of proof under Italian law. But that shouldn't matter. As Lance said himself, when you make a serious allegation (like calling someone a liar), you'd better be able to back it up.

    Lance should back up his allegation with facts. If he can, he's done cycling a service. If he can't, he's just a bully.
    Last edited by Daily Commute; 07-30-04 at 11:59 AM.

  24. #24
    Photog Extraordinaire Crack'n'fail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudbase
    You can control how much iron you ingest through diet.

    Your body will not remove the iron from your system by itself though. The only way to reduce your level of iron is by loosing blood. That is one of the major reasons that men and women have different vitamins - women loose iron during menstruation so they need to include it in their vitamins. Men don't bleed regularly so we don't need to ingest it.
    You lose iron when you sweat, actually. That's where some folks develop exercise induced anemia. So the idea that their iron levels suddenly spike when they increase their exercise during the season is counterintuitive.

    If we didn't (men that is) lose iron other than bleeding, we'd have to never eat anything with iron it, because when your iron content reaches a certain level it becomes toxic.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotek
    Walter,

    Its a special Test Icon, there are a few others that we are thinking about!
    The other one I really like is:

    Right now I'm just importing them.
    OT,
    but you should import this one too

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