Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-22-10, 08:21 AM   #26
bellweatherman
Senior Member
 
bellweatherman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin
Bikes: Too many to count
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't take what Armstrong did for granted. However, Lemond was a much more complete cyclist. Lemond, at his absolute peak, is unrivaled. There is no doubt in my mind he would've won more Tours if not for bad luck (getting shot by brother-in-law) and having to ride for Hinault.
bellweatherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-10, 07:02 PM   #27
SneakyKing
Senior Member
 
SneakyKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dayton, ohio
Bikes: 2009 Gary Fisher Paragon, 2008 Trek fuel EX 6.5, 2005 Giant XTC, 2006 Fuji Team, 1978 Raleigh Grand Prix Fixie
Posts: 151
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lemond is supposably going to be speaking at my school this spring....wish it was Armstrong instead
SneakyKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-10, 08:44 PM   #28
MUZE
Senior Member
 
MUZE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: West Hills, CA
Bikes: Scott CR 1
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's kind of like asking " who was a better driver, Fangio or Schumacher?" Each competed on different eras of their sport. One also raced sport cars and one specialized. Both were great, as with Lemond and Armstrong.
MUZE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-10, 04:16 PM   #29
baj32161
Behind EVERYone!!!
 
baj32161's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Burlington ON, Canada
Bikes: '11 Cannondale Synapsese 5 105
Posts: 5,931
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I grew up watching Merckx, although I was not a real fan back then. It was Greg LeMond who stoked the fires for me and got me hooked, although I was never a serious rider. I rode then, and still ride for recreation and exercise. Both of these men are wonderful riders and I do not believe that you can fairly compare eras in any sport. Having said that, I give my nod to LeMond but I have enormous respect for both. Speculation aside, I believe GL would have won at l;east 2 more TdFs.

Cheers,

Brian J.
__________________
“A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence. ”

― Bruce Lee

Last edited by baj32161; 01-31-10 at 04:36 PM.
baj32161 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-10, 06:41 PM   #30
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by baj32161 View Post
I believe GL would have won at l;east 2 more TdFs.
Agreed.
1987 & 1988
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-10, 03:14 PM   #31
Cateye
Senior Member
 
Cateye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lactate Threshold
Bikes: Orbea
Posts: 584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uni-Vibe View Post
I vote Lemond.

Greg you're still trolling BF?
Cateye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-10, 03:57 PM   #32
Eclectus
Senior Member
 
Eclectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas
Bikes: Cervelo RS, Specialized Stumpy, Schwinn 974
Posts: 1,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you really care? LeMond paved the way for Americans, like Lance, to ride in Europe. But, a bigger question is, why doesn't America, with all our wealth, take over professional races. We have the Sierras, Rockies, Cascades. World-class terrain. The highest town in Europe, Davos, is 5000 feet. The highest town in America, Leadville, is 12,000 feet. Our highest-altitude passes beat Europe's highest-altitude passes. Our hardest climbs beat Europe's hardest climbs.

If you love Lance, tell him to put a couple million down (with contribution from Greg), to create the TdWorld championship. Here. In America.
Eclectus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-10, 03:44 PM   #33
$ick3nin.vend3t
Banned.
 
$ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
But, a bigger question is, why doesn't America, with all our wealth, take over professional races. Here. In America.
Because the sport is bigger in Europe & nothing America has to offer will ever be as big as the Tour De France, France being the most popular tourist destination in the world.
$ick3nin.vend3t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-10, 02:02 PM   #34
RMWrides
:::
 
RMWrides's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At my house
Bikes: Many
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lance.
RMWrides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-10, 09:03 AM   #35
Cateye
Senior Member
 
Cateye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lactate Threshold
Bikes: Orbea
Posts: 584
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
Lemond - because Armstrong rode (rides) a Trek.
I thought Lemond's were made by Trek.
Cateye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-10, 07:07 PM   #36
ajwray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was watching Cash Cab the other day and the question was which TDF winner was shot while hunting and then made a comeback. The couple answered Lance, the host said Lemond, they looked perplexed.

Lance.
ajwray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-10, 05:20 PM   #37
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Two different eras, u can't compare them. Merckx was great but it is true too that Merckx ran the whole season back to back even small races, Armstrong runs only a few times per year and that's it, always focusing in the TDF.

Lemond? was great that nobody can deny that but u can;t compare him with Armstrong because are two different eras of cycling. Sadly i believe it was true that we was forced to pull back due to politics. In profesional cycling back in the day u had a star and everybody was running for him no matter how many chances to win u had. I know that because of my personal experience in europe for 1 season. And it sucks. I still remember the last world cup Hinault ran just before his retirement, a couple of guys of the french team basically towed him because he was not even to keep up with the group. Thats was the mentality back in the day and i dont know how the situation have changed, Lemnond got the bad luck to get into the middle of french team arss politics in my opinion.

Armstrong got the luck of running all the time with non french teams and that makes some differences, the other situation is that Armstrong is famous for having an attitude for saying the least. And that could have helped him a lot during all this years...

As i said before u cant compare them, both are darn good... Oh just in case greg was junior road world champion if im not mistaken he got the adult wc also. But who was better who knows... they never ran together in a hand by hand.
ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-10, 07:39 AM   #38
spoke50
Miles over Matter
 
spoke50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: birmingham al
Bikes: trek
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lemond!
spoke50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-10, 07:42 AM   #39
cyclezealot
Senior Member
 
cyclezealot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Fallbrook,Calif./Palau del Vidre, France
Bikes: Klein QP, Fuji touring, Surly Cross Check, BCH City bike
Posts: 13,172
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
Why not. I may as well cast the inevitable "Merckx" vote.
Time and space have a huge affect on who gets to be top dog... ?.. Had not years gotten in the way, how would a competition between Merckx and Armstrong panned out.. Does it really matter. ?. It's only a matter of shaving seconds off of their many races.
__________________
Pray for the Dead and Fight like Hell for the Living






^ Since January 1, 2012
cyclezealot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-10, 09:58 PM   #40
Prairie Native
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
The highest town in America, Leadville, is 12,000 feet.
Hardly. Leadville is 10,500. But I agree with the terrain thing. We have climbs in the sierra's that match, rival, and stomp most if not all the Alp's climbs. Onion Valley Road (imagine a giant crowd with a peloton knifing through on those switchbacks!), Mt Evans in Colorado would be a neat stage finish. And what is considered the hardest road climb maybe on earth is in New Hampshire on Mt.Washington. Start the event in California with a prologue and a few stages, hit the Sierras and creep east through the rockies and plains. do a penultimate stage on mt washington or brasstown bald and end with laps around Washington D.C. (just daydreaming i know.)
Prairie Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-10, 02:21 PM   #41
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
I don't take what Armstrong did for granted. However, Lemond was a much more complete cyclist. Lemond, at his absolute peak, is unrivaled. There is no doubt in my mind he would've won more Tours if not for bad luck (getting shot by brother-in-law) and having to ride for Hinault.
Just when was his absolute peak? It can't be when Hinault was still riding, and winning the closest TDF ever hardly seems unrivaled either. So is it his very last TDF win year?
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-10, 08:42 PM   #42
USAZorro
Señor Member
 
USAZorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Florence, KY
Bikes: 1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1996 Giant Iguana, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead
Posts: 14,563
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
Because the sport is bigger in Europe
^^^ True

Quote:
Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
& nothing America has to offer will ever be as big as the Tour De France,
^^^Opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
France being the most popular tourist destination in the world.
^^^ not true
__________________
In search of what to search for.
USAZorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-10, 02:31 PM   #43
thomas p
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Bikes:
Posts: 49
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
Agreed.
1987 & 1988
I am not so sure he would have beaten Stephen Roche in 87.Lemond was very lucky to win in 89 as well.Lemond might have had more natural talent but having a higher vo2 max does not make him a better cyclist.
thomas p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 02:06 PM   #44
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,159
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by *****3nin.vend3t View Post
Armstrong all the way. Not just the greatest US cyclist, but the greatest cyclist of all time IMO.
And that opinion destroys any credibility you could hope to have. It's simply impossible to make any case that Armstrong even approaches Merckx.

Not only are Merckx's palmares an order of magnitude above Armstrong. The manner in which he dominated races is unmatched.

Eddy Merckx
(Other significant victories: World Amateur Road Race Champion, 1964; winner of 17 Six-day races)
1966 Milan - San Remo
Trofeo Angelo Baracchi, with Ferdi Bracke
1967 World Pro Road Race
Milan - San Remo
Flèche Wallone
Ghent - Wevelgem
Trofeo Angelo Baracchi, with Ferdi Bracke
2 stages, Giro d'Italia
Critérium des As
1968 Giro d'Italia
KoM, Giro d'Italia
Points Competition, Giro d'Italia
4 stages, Giro d'Italia
Tour of Catalonia
Tour of Romandy
Paris - Roubaix
Tre Valli Varesine
1969 Tour de France
KoM, Tour de France
Points Competition, Tour de France
5 stages, Tour de France
Paris - Luxembourg
Milan - San Remo
Tour of Flanders
Liège - Bastogne - Liège
Paris - Nice
4 stages, Giro d'Italia
Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
1970 Tour de France
KoM, Tour de France
8 stages, Tour de France
Giro d'Italia
3 stages, Giro d'Italia
Paris - Nice
Tour of Belgium
Paris - Roubaix
Flèche Wallone
Ghent - Wevelgem
Critérium des As
Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
1971 Tour de France
Points Competition, Tour de France
4 stages, Tour de France
World Pro Road Race
Milan - San Remo
Liège - Bastogne - Liège
Tour of Lombardy
Frankfurt Grand Prix
Omloop Het Volk
Paris - Nice
Dauphiné - Libéré
GP du Midi Libre
Tour of Belgium
Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
1972 Tour de France
Points Competition, Tour de France
6 stages, Tour de France
Giro d'Italia
4 stages, Giro d'Italia
Milan - San Remo
Liège - Bastogne - Liège
Tour of Lombardy
Flèche Wallone
Giro dell'Emilia
Giro del Piemonte
GP de l'Escaut
Trofeo Angelo Baracchi, with Roger Swerts
Hour Record - 49.431km
Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
1973 Giro d'Italia
Points Competition, Giro d'Italia
6 stages, Giro d'Italia
Vuelta a España
Points Competition, Vuelta a España
6 stages, Vuelta a España
Paris - Roubaix
Liège - Bastogne - Liège
Grand Prix des Nations
Amstel Gold Race
Ghent - Wevelgem
Omloop Het Volk
Paris - Brussels
GP Fourmies
Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
1974 Tour de France
8 stages, Tour de France
Giro d'Italia
2 stages, Giro d'Italia
World Pro Road Race
Tour of Switzerland
Points competition, Tour of Switzerland
KoM, Tour of Switzerland
3 stages, Tour of Switzerland
Critérium des As
Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
1975 Milan - San Remo
Tour of Flanders
Liège - Bastogne - Liège
Amstel Gold Race
Catalan Week
2 stages, Tour de France
1 stage, Tour of Switzerland
Super Prestige Pernod Trophy
1976 Milan - San Remo
Catalan Week
1977 1 stage, Tour of Switzerland



Only thing Armstrong has on Merckx is 7 TDF's to Merckx's 5. However, if the record had been 7 TDF's and Merckx wanted to win 7, he likely could have. In Merckx's era, the TDF was not the be all, end all, that many riders treat it as today. In 1973, Merckx elected not to ride the TDF in favor of doing a Giro/ Vuelta double. Being punched by a spoectator may have cost hima another TDF. And Merckx has 11 Grand Tour victories to Armstrong's 7.

When Armstrong wins the Green, Yellow, and Polka dot Jerseys in the same TDF, wins all 3 major tours, wins 5 Milan San Remos, wins more classics than you can shake a stick at, sets an Hour Record, and actually even enters Paris Roubaix, then you might be able to start discussing him alongside Merckx.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

Last edited by merlinextraligh; 03-23-10 at 02:16 PM.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 03:19 PM   #45
woodenidol
Senior Member
 
woodenidol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Bikes: Schwinn Madison, Schwinn Tempo
Posts: 193
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lemond. Won my heart and started me riding. I taped over my wedding tape with TDF coverage of Lemond. Never regretted it, my wife on the other hand, holds a very different opinion!!!
woodenidol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 03:45 PM   #46
$ick3nin.vend3t
Banned.
 
$ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
And that opinion destroys any credibility you could hope to have. It's simply impossible to make any case that Armstrong even approaches Merckx.

Not only are Merckx's palmares an order of magnitude above Armstrong. The manner in which he dominated races is unmatched.

Only thing Armstrong has on Merckx is 7 TDF's to Merckx's 5. However, if the record had been 7 TDF's and Merckx wanted to win 7, he likely could have. In Merckx's era, the TDF was not the be all, end all, that many riders treat it as today. In 1973, Merckx elected not to ride the TDF in favor of doing a Giro/ Vuelta double. Being punched by a spoectator may have cost hima another TDF. And Merckx has 11 Grand Tour victories to Armstrong's 7.

When Armstrong wins the Green, Yellow, and Polka dot Jerseys in the same TDF, wins all 3 major tours, wins 5 Milan San Remos, wins more classics than you can shake a stick at, sets an Hour Record, and actually even enters Paris Roubaix, then you might be able to start discussing him alongside Merckx.
Different era's. Apples & Oranges.

Personally, I don't think Merckx would have contested in any of Armstrong's 7 wins & if I was a hater, we could mention the extent of Merckx's doping affairs (which possibly could have been career long).
$ick3nin.vend3t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-10, 06:05 PM   #47
merlinextraligh
pan y agua
 
merlinextraligh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Bikes: Wilier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Co-Motion Robusta; Schwinn Paramount; Motobecane Phantom Cross; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Calfee Dragonfly Tandem
Posts: 29,159
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Even Armstrong will tell you that Merckx was the greatest ever.

As for different eras, all you can do is compare them to their peers. Merckx won virtually everything he entered and totally sominated his peers. Armstrong not so much.

As for doping, both Armstrong and Merckx played on a level playing field with their peers. Perhaps not on the level that some would like to believe. Might watch out for those glass walls.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 03:21 PM   #48
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Even Armstrong will tell you that Merckx was the greatest ever.

As for different eras, all you can do is compare them to their peers. Merckx won virtually everything he entered and totally sominated his peers. Armstrong not so much.

As for doping, both Armstrong and Merckx played on a level playing field with their peers. Perhaps not on the level that some would like to believe. Might watch out for those glass walls.
Years ago I tabulated wins in hte biggest 9 races in cycling (ones with history that have stayed big, thus allowing some kind of comparison between eras). Those are the 3 grand tours, the 5 monuments and the Worlds. 9 events. It is rather startling. More often than not some rider will win 2, one year 3 different riders won 2 of the 9. But winning 3 out of 9 is rare, it has only been done 15 or 16 times. Before Merckx only Fausto Coppi had ever won 4 in the same year. No rider had ever won 3 or more a second time. Merckx won 3 or more 7 years in a row, winning 4 twice and 5 twice.

I looked for other similar feats, several riders had one, few 2. Roche of course deserves mention, he was in fact a lot of why I started. But 2 other riders came up a few times. Fausto Coppi and Bernard Hinault. Coppi is the only rider who ever has (and who ever will) win all major jerseys in any 2 of the grand tours (TDF and Giro). It is harder now as there are 3 instead of 2, but then it was easier before Coppi as in the early years there was only one jersey in each tour. Hinault is the only rider ever to win each of the Grand tours in his first entry. I do not expect to see that matched either. (Hinault is also the only rider to win either the Worlds or Paris Roubaix and a Grand Tour in the same year more than once except for Merckx. Hinault did it twice, Merckx 5 times).

I don't see any serious way to consider anyone else close to these 3 and unless one overvalues Coppi's lost years Merckx is clearly the top of the 3.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-10, 04:58 PM   #49
$ick3nin.vend3t
Banned.
 
$ick3nin.vend3t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A honking Merckx doing everything under the sun is certainly going to be superior, to a majority clean peleton.

Comparable to a boxer putting steel plates in his gloves.

Its great people put him on a pedestal, but some of his greatness dies with a lot of people due to doping.

Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 03-27-10 at 11:24 AM.
$ick3nin.vend3t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-10, 09:50 AM   #50
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas p View Post
I am not so sure he would have beaten Stephen Roche in 87.Lemond was very lucky to win in 89 as well.Lemond might have had more natural talent but having a higher vo2 max does not make him a better cyclist.
Yeah, it's all just speculation, but I do think Lemond would have beaten Roche. As far as luck playing a part of Lemond's '89 victory: Lemond made his luck.
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:19 AM.