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Old 10-16-12, 08:36 AM   #476
LarDasse74
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So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
If you look back, drugs have only been involved in pro cycling since the invention of the bicycle. If bicycles are banned from pro cycling there will be no more doping in the peleton... simple!
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Old 10-16-12, 08:44 AM   #477
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So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
When will drugs be gone from the NFL, track and field, yadda? When will people not steal other people's identity and ruin their lives? When will kids not cheat on exams? And on it goes....
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Old 10-16-12, 09:28 AM   #478
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When will drugs be gone from the NFL, track and field, yadda? When will people not steal other people's identity and ruin their lives? When will kids not cheat on exams? And on it goes....
When will people on BF stop claiming that they are much faster riders than they really are?
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Old 10-16-12, 10:48 AM   #479
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It will never be gone. However, it may be possible to get to the point that the risk reward calculus is such that most riders decide it's not worth it, and it's possible to compete clean.
This.

And the penalty has to be ramped up to really get to that point of risk/reward calculus. I say the two year ban should be increased to say, four years. And if you are banned for four years and come back, then do it again, you should never be able to get a licence of any kind, racing or working in other capacity with teams.
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Old 10-16-12, 11:17 AM   #480
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When will people on BF stop claiming that they are much faster riders than they really are?
How fast did you claim to be?
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Old 10-16-12, 11:22 AM   #481
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This.

And the penalty has to be ramped up to really get to that point of risk/reward calculus. I say the two year ban should be increased to say, four years. And if you are banned for four years and come back, then do it again, you should never be able to get a licence of any kind, racing or working in other capacity with teams.
The money men would never allow that.

This is what happens when a sport becomes Big Business.
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Old 10-16-12, 11:27 AM   #482
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This.

And the penalty has to be ramped up to really get to that point of risk/reward calculus. I say the two year ban should be increased to say, four years. And if you are banned for four years and come back, then do it again, you should never be able to get a licence of any kind, racing or working in other capacity with teams.
And again I must say that until the *MANAGEMENT* sees it too risky to pressure riders into doping, they will continue to do so, and continue to throw up their hands claiming ignorance of the doping every time a riders tests positive, then make a big show of suspending him from the team.
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Old 10-16-12, 11:28 AM   #483
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Talk about blatant cheating! You're destroying Dave Z by stealing his lyrics to Purple Haze without either giving him credit or paying a royalty! The RIAA/UCI is going to be all over this (or whoever protects the copyright of lyrics written by cyclists while traveling on the team bus)!
I don't care. I recognized it all on my lonesome and suddenly feel young again
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Old 10-16-12, 11:38 AM   #484
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I think Lance is just a misunderstood psychopath.
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Old 10-16-12, 12:19 PM   #485
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Now I just read that Omega Pharma fired Levi. How are they ever gonna clean up pro cycling when people coming forward with their doping history are being canned?

Maybe the idea of a general amnesty in exchange for coming forth with doping tales is not such a bad idea.

Just mind-boggling, that's all. And what a mess.
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Old 10-16-12, 12:36 PM   #486
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Now I just read that Omega Pharma fired Levi. How are they ever gonna clean up pro cycling when people coming forward with their doping history are being canned?

Maybe the idea of a general amnesty in exchange for coming forth with doping tales is not such a bad idea.

Just mind-boggling, that's all. And what a mess.
Now you are getting it...
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Old 10-16-12, 12:51 PM   #487
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So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
Never.

There will always be someone who is close but not there who thinks that gaining an advantage will get them there and sees little chance otherwise.

The very best we can ever hope for is that it gets pushed to late in a racers career, e.g. that most think the risk is not worth it until they are running out of time.

I don't have much hope of even this however.
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Old 10-16-12, 01:19 PM   #488
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Now I just read that Omega Pharma fired Levi. How are they ever gonna clean up pro cycling when people coming forward with their doping history are being canned?

Maybe the idea of a general amnesty in exchange for coming forth with doping tales is not such a bad idea.

Just mind-boggling, that's all. And what a mess.
He didn't get fired because he came forward; it's because he doped in the first place, and failed to mention it when he signed the contrat.

It still sucks anyways for Levi, he is a class act.
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Old 10-16-12, 01:32 PM   #489
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At some point, some of the phrases and words that are being tossed around need to be defined:

Cheating. When Lance entered into professional sport, doping was a neccessary and almost accepted part of a cyclists training regimen. It was just another element of an athletes diet, it was a supplement. Was it really cheating if everyone else was doing it?

Destroy. Lance was trying to destoy people. What exactly does that mean? Was he hiring mob hits? Or was he just talking bad about people who were talking bad about him?
Please stop making excuses for this behavior. Cheating is wrong, regardless who else or how many are involved. "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerarte those who do.", is the honor code of the US Military Academy. Rather than make excuses, think about this simple rule.
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Old 10-16-12, 01:41 PM   #490
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He didn't get fired because he came forward; it's because he doped in the first place, and failed to mention it when he signed the contrat.

It still sucks anyways for Levi, he is a class act.
Well, the irony is that he'll still have a job if he had lied about his dope use. That is what I was getting at. And also, the manager of his team was a doper in his racing days. Oh, the chutzpah!
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Old 10-16-12, 01:47 PM   #491
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Please stop making excuses for this behavior. Cheating is wrong, regardless who else or how many are involved. "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerarte those who do.", is the honor code of the US Military Academy. Rather than make excuses, think about this simple rule.
I don't know about you but I'm not in the military academy and I'm pretty sure Lance isn't either.
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Old 10-16-12, 02:11 PM   #492
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Please stop making excuses for this behavior. Cheating is wrong, regardless who else or how many are involved. "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerarte those who do.", is the honor code of the US Military Academy. Rather than make excuses, think about this simple rule.
Doesn't seem to work all the time, does it?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/06...-on-math-test/
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Old 10-16-12, 02:29 PM   #493
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So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
Possibly after the singularity.
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Old 10-16-12, 03:06 PM   #494
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Doesn't seem to work all the time, does it?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/06...-on-math-test/
It certainly does work... if we apply it to the situtation to which you linked, we realize what the cadets did was wrong, and it was not tolerated.
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Old 10-16-12, 04:23 PM   #495
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Sir,
Those in the military assumed a code of conduct upon entering the U.S. armed forces. I firmly believe in that. But there is no such provision given to anyone that wants to cheat for $$. You cannot force anyone not affilitated with the military to understand that, much less live by it. LA got away with cheating...good for him! He's raised a lot of money for cancer awareness. He did not kill/maim/dismember anyone. He gamed the system, and it caught up with him. But he is not in the military. Please remember that.
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Old 10-16-12, 04:35 PM   #496
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Sir,
Those in the military assumed a code of conduct upon entering the U.S. armed forces. I firmly believe in that. But there is no such provision given to anyone that wants to cheat for $$. You cannot force anyone not affilitated with the military to understand that, much less live by it. LA got away with cheating...good for him! He's raised a lot of money for cancer awareness. He did not kill/maim/dismember anyone. He gamed the system, and it caught up with him. But he is not in the military. Please remember that.
So you are saying it doesn't matter what wrongs he committed or who he hurt as long as he did some good along the way and didn't get caught. I like to believe most people don't live with that same moral flexibility. Sadly, I am probably wrong

Edit: Now that he has been caught, does that mean it is now wrong?
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Old 10-16-12, 09:31 PM   #497
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http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...-doping_261680

Even Allen Lim is involved now. Hey Allen, careful of the company you keep, man.
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Old 10-16-12, 09:52 PM   #498
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Lim's been involved.
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Old 10-16-12, 10:30 PM   #499
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Lim's been involved.
EPO Ricecakes.
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Old 10-17-12, 05:50 AM   #500
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Those in the military assumed a code of conduct upon entering the U.S. armed forces.
And professional cyclists agree not to use PED's.

He had just as strong a moral obligation not to cheat as any military cadet.


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LA got away with cheating...good for him!
Bad for everyone else on his team, who were apparently encouraged and/or cajoled and/or all but forced to dope to keep their careers intact.

Bad for the pro peloton, as Armstrong's behavior was part of a culture that encouraged wide-spread cheating.

Terrible for the sport, which has been shown yet again to be tarnished by rampant cheating.

And yes, he got away with it... until now. He's busted, and the word is out about his vindictive and bullying behavior.


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He's raised a lot of money for cancer awareness.
C'mon, man. Your head would have to be buried in the sand not to be "aware" of cancer, and his efforts were (by the organization's own admission) tiny compared to established cancer charities.

I don't fault him for doing charity work. But it doesn't excuse habitual cheating, or applying duress to get someone else to cheat.
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