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  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by john gault View Post
    So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
    If you look back, drugs have only been involved in pro cycling since the invention of the bicycle. If bicycles are banned from pro cycling there will be no more doping in the peleton... simple!

  2. #477
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john gault View Post
    So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
    When will drugs be gone from the NFL, track and field, yadda? When will people not steal other people's identity and ruin their lives? When will kids not cheat on exams? And on it goes....
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  3. #478
    I'm so much cooler online eriksbliss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    When will drugs be gone from the NFL, track and field, yadda? When will people not steal other people's identity and ruin their lives? When will kids not cheat on exams? And on it goes....
    When will people on BF stop claiming that they are much faster riders than they really are?

  4. #479
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    It will never be gone. However, it may be possible to get to the point that the risk reward calculus is such that most riders decide it's not worth it, and it's possible to compete clean.
    This.

    And the penalty has to be ramped up to really get to that point of risk/reward calculus. I say the two year ban should be increased to say, four years. And if you are banned for four years and come back, then do it again, you should never be able to get a licence of any kind, racing or working in other capacity with teams.
    Regards,

    Jed

  5. #480
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eriksbliss View Post
    When will people on BF stop claiming that they are much faster riders than they really are?
    How fast did you claim to be?
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  6. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    This.

    And the penalty has to be ramped up to really get to that point of risk/reward calculus. I say the two year ban should be increased to say, four years. And if you are banned for four years and come back, then do it again, you should never be able to get a licence of any kind, racing or working in other capacity with teams.
    The money men would never allow that.

    This is what happens when a sport becomes Big Business.

  7. #482
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    This.

    And the penalty has to be ramped up to really get to that point of risk/reward calculus. I say the two year ban should be increased to say, four years. And if you are banned for four years and come back, then do it again, you should never be able to get a licence of any kind, racing or working in other capacity with teams.
    And again I must say that until the *MANAGEMENT* sees it too risky to pressure riders into doping, they will continue to do so, and continue to throw up their hands claiming ignorance of the doping every time a riders tests positive, then make a big show of suspending him from the team.

  8. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onegun View Post
    Talk about blatant cheating! You're destroying Dave Z by stealing his lyrics to Purple Haze without either giving him credit or paying a royalty! The RIAA/UCI is going to be all over this (or whoever protects the copyright of lyrics written by cyclists while traveling on the team bus)!
    I don't care. I recognized it all on my lonesome and suddenly feel young again

  9. #484
    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    I think Lance is just a misunderstood psychopath.
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  10. #485
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Now I just read that Omega Pharma fired Levi. How are they ever gonna clean up pro cycling when people coming forward with their doping history are being canned?

    Maybe the idea of a general amnesty in exchange for coming forth with doping tales is not such a bad idea.

    Just mind-boggling, that's all. And what a mess.
    Regards,

    Jed

  11. #486
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    Now I just read that Omega Pharma fired Levi. How are they ever gonna clean up pro cycling when people coming forward with their doping history are being canned?

    Maybe the idea of a general amnesty in exchange for coming forth with doping tales is not such a bad idea.

    Just mind-boggling, that's all. And what a mess.
    Now you are getting it...
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  12. #487
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john gault View Post
    So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
    Never.

    There will always be someone who is close but not there who thinks that gaining an advantage will get them there and sees little chance otherwise.

    The very best we can ever hope for is that it gets pushed to late in a racers career, e.g. that most think the risk is not worth it until they are running out of time.

    I don't have much hope of even this however.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  13. #488
    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    Now I just read that Omega Pharma fired Levi. How are they ever gonna clean up pro cycling when people coming forward with their doping history are being canned?

    Maybe the idea of a general amnesty in exchange for coming forth with doping tales is not such a bad idea.

    Just mind-boggling, that's all. And what a mess.
    He didn't get fired because he came forward; it's because he doped in the first place, and failed to mention it when he signed the contrat.

    It still sucks anyways for Levi, he is a class act.
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  14. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thulsadoom View Post
    At some point, some of the phrases and words that are being tossed around need to be defined:

    Cheating. When Lance entered into professional sport, doping was a neccessary and almost accepted part of a cyclists training regimen. It was just another element of an athletes diet, it was a supplement. Was it really cheating if everyone else was doing it?

    Destroy. Lance was trying to destoy people. What exactly does that mean? Was he hiring mob hits? Or was he just talking bad about people who were talking bad about him?
    Please stop making excuses for this behavior. Cheating is wrong, regardless who else or how many are involved. "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerarte those who do.", is the honor code of the US Military Academy. Rather than make excuses, think about this simple rule.

  15. #490
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post
    He didn't get fired because he came forward; it's because he doped in the first place, and failed to mention it when he signed the contrat.

    It still sucks anyways for Levi, he is a class act.
    Well, the irony is that he'll still have a job if he had lied about his dope use. That is what I was getting at. And also, the manager of his team was a doper in his racing days. Oh, the chutzpah!
    Regards,

    Jed

  16. #491
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikepro View Post
    Please stop making excuses for this behavior. Cheating is wrong, regardless who else or how many are involved. "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerarte those who do.", is the honor code of the US Military Academy. Rather than make excuses, think about this simple rule.
    I don't know about you but I'm not in the military academy and I'm pretty sure Lance isn't either.

  17. #492
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikepro View Post
    Please stop making excuses for this behavior. Cheating is wrong, regardless who else or how many are involved. "I will not lie, cheat or steal, nor tolerarte those who do.", is the honor code of the US Military Academy. Rather than make excuses, think about this simple rule.
    Doesn't seem to work all the time, does it?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/06...-on-math-test/

  18. #493
    Senior Member Thulsadoom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john gault View Post
    So the question is...when will doping be gone in the peloton?
    Possibly after the singularity.

  19. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    Doesn't seem to work all the time, does it?

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/06...-on-math-test/
    It certainly does work... if we apply it to the situtation to which you linked, we realize what the cadets did was wrong, and it was not tolerated.

  20. #495
    Senior Member bandit1990's Avatar
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    Sir,
    Those in the military assumed a code of conduct upon entering the U.S. armed forces. I firmly believe in that. But there is no such provision given to anyone that wants to cheat for $$. You cannot force anyone not affilitated with the military to understand that, much less live by it. LA got away with cheating...good for him! He's raised a lot of money for cancer awareness. He did not kill/maim/dismember anyone. He gamed the system, and it caught up with him. But he is not in the military. Please remember that.

  21. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit1990 View Post
    Sir,
    Those in the military assumed a code of conduct upon entering the U.S. armed forces. I firmly believe in that. But there is no such provision given to anyone that wants to cheat for $$. You cannot force anyone not affilitated with the military to understand that, much less live by it. LA got away with cheating...good for him! He's raised a lot of money for cancer awareness. He did not kill/maim/dismember anyone. He gamed the system, and it caught up with him. But he is not in the military. Please remember that.
    So you are saying it doesn't matter what wrongs he committed or who he hurt as long as he did some good along the way and didn't get caught. I like to believe most people don't live with that same moral flexibility. Sadly, I am probably wrong

    Edit: Now that he has been caught, does that mean it is now wrong?

  22. #497
    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...-doping_261680

    Even Allen Lim is involved now. Hey Allen, careful of the company you keep, man.
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  23. #498
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Lim's been involved.

  24. #499
    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    Lim's been involved.
    EPO Ricecakes.
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  25. #500
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit1990 View Post
    Those in the military assumed a code of conduct upon entering the U.S. armed forces.
    And professional cyclists agree not to use PED's.

    He had just as strong a moral obligation not to cheat as any military cadet.


    Quote Originally Posted by bandit1990
    LA got away with cheating...good for him!
    Bad for everyone else on his team, who were apparently encouraged and/or cajoled and/or all but forced to dope to keep their careers intact.

    Bad for the pro peloton, as Armstrong's behavior was part of a culture that encouraged wide-spread cheating.

    Terrible for the sport, which has been shown yet again to be tarnished by rampant cheating.

    And yes, he got away with it... until now. He's busted, and the word is out about his vindictive and bullying behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by bandit1990
    He's raised a lot of money for cancer awareness.
    C'mon, man. Your head would have to be buried in the sand not to be "aware" of cancer, and his efforts were (by the organization's own admission) tiny compared to established cancer charities.

    I don't fault him for doing charity work. But it doesn't excuse habitual cheating, or applying duress to get someone else to cheat.

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