My (slightly tearful) reaction to the Armstrong news
10-18-12, 06:19 PM
#578
Senior Member
Forgive me for not reading all 20 pages and if this question has already been answered:
Can someone point me to a list of those former LA teammates that supposedly remained clean and chose to leave of their own accord either mid season or at the end of the contract vs those that continued to fight for a position on his teams and benefitted from such, but, have later complained via whatever avenue about the conditions of their employment and the expectation of PED use?
Can someone point me to a list of those former LA teammates that supposedly remained clean and chose to leave of their own accord either mid season or at the end of the contract vs those that continued to fight for a position on his teams and benefitted from such, but, have later complained via whatever avenue about the conditions of their employment and the expectation of PED use?
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Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
10-18-12, 06:22 PM
#579
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Forgive me for not reading all 20 pages and if this question has already been answered:
Can someone point me to a list of those former LA teammates that supposedly remained clean and chose to leave of their own accord either mid season or at the end of the contract vs those that continued to fight for a position on his teams and benefitted from such, but, have later complained via whatever avenue about the conditions of their employment and the expectation of PED use?
Can someone point me to a list of those former LA teammates that supposedly remained clean and chose to leave of their own accord either mid season or at the end of the contract vs those that continued to fight for a position on his teams and benefitted from such, but, have later complained via whatever avenue about the conditions of their employment and the expectation of PED use?
I have no idea. Anyone?
10-18-12, 06:23 PM
#580
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https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...nt-team_261932
So when will we be reading that Armstrong's wife has left him?
Move over Tiger Woods, you've been upped.
So when will we be reading that Armstrong's wife has left him?
Move over Tiger Woods, you've been upped.
10-18-12, 06:43 PM
#583
Senior Member
A doctor becomes a doping doctor purely for financial gain. Pay him enough and you can get him to help one rider while sabotaging the rest.
10-18-12, 06:54 PM
#584
Senior Member
I suspect it may not be so much sabotaging others, as how much one is willing to push beyond the legal border and to what extent one is willing to push their body to get back onto the negative side of that line and the associated costs involved.
Look at it like some of the other professional coaching and fit/performance services. The more you're willing to spend, the more of their time you get and greater access to more of their database (which will include other top competitors numbers).
Look at it like some of the other professional coaching and fit/performance services. The more you're willing to spend, the more of their time you get and greater access to more of their database (which will include other top competitors numbers).
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Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
10-18-12, 06:59 PM
#585
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Report on the Michele Ferrari system
"biggest antidoping investigation in the history of sport, much bigger than Operacion Puerto. Thousands of pages of documents, witness statements, wiretaps, searches and international depositions in Switzerland, Monaco and Spain. The public prosecutor Benedetto Roberti form Padova, who has been investigating this matter for years, went after Michele Ferrari, the most famous coach in cycling, to uncover his illegal activities and bring to justice the man everyone called "Doctor Myth" after he had been acquitted on appeal in 2006 in the doping trial in Bologna. The investigators reckon that the sums involved amount to millions of euro, probably as much as €30 million."
"offering their clients a 'complete package of services' ranging from advice concerning contracts, training and medication, to legal support when testing positive in drugs tests or in trials for doping by means of 'very sharp practices, including the altering of haematic values to call into question the results of drugs tests relating to their biological passport'. The aim was to 'artificially enhance the performance of the athletes and thereby increase the money they were paid and, in turn, the amount the medical professionals received for looking after them'. Dozens of riders are involved, even entire teams, such as Astana and RadioSchack. The Gazzetta is able to reconstruct this money chain on the basis of the international depositions."
"Liquigas, Lampre, Colnago, Geox, Androni, Katusha, Quick Step, CNF-Inox, Farnese Vini, Acqua&Sapone, Astana, RadioShack, Vacansoleil, ISD, CSF, LPR, Diquigiovanni, Tinkoff, Rabobank, Gerolsteiner and Milram."
10-18-12, 07:11 PM
#586
Senior Member
Yep, it's all clean now that LA is gone
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Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
10-18-12, 08:30 PM
#587
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La Gazzetta dello Sport reported today on the
Wire taps and bank records reportedly document that the doctors were
Riders from about "twenty professional teams are alleged to have been involved in this scam over the four-year period 2008-2011":
Wire taps and bank records reportedly document that the doctors were
Riders from about "twenty professional teams are alleged to have been involved in this scam over the four-year period 2008-2011":
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FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
10-18-12, 09:49 PM
#588
Senior Member
Forgive me for not reading all 20 pages and if this question has already been answered:
Can someone point me to a list of those former LA teammates that supposedly remained clean and chose to leave of their own accord either mid season or at the end of the contract vs those that continued to fight for a position on his teams and benefitted from such, but, have later complained via whatever avenue about the conditions of their employment and the expectation of PED use?
Can someone point me to a list of those former LA teammates that supposedly remained clean and chose to leave of their own accord either mid season or at the end of the contract vs those that continued to fight for a position on his teams and benefitted from such, but, have later complained via whatever avenue about the conditions of their employment and the expectation of PED use?
10-18-12, 10:23 PM
#589
Senior Member
Anyone, any others that bailed quickly instead of pocketing the ever increasing pay checks? Only, to cry foul later?
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Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Last edited by bigfred; 10-18-12 at 10:29 PM.
10-18-12, 10:47 PM
#590
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Yea, Ferrari didn't work with Lance exclusively, but it's interesting how Lance knew the doping details of every other one of Ferrari's patients. I wouldn't be surprised if Ferrari was being paid by Armstrong to secretly reduce the doses for all the other riders.
A doctor becomes a doping doctor purely for financial gain. Pay him enough and you can get him to help one rider while sabotaging the rest.
A doctor becomes a doping doctor purely for financial gain. Pay him enough and you can get him to help one rider while sabotaging the rest.
10-18-12, 11:52 PM
#591
moth -----> flame
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Paging Tyler Hamilton
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BF, in a nutshell
BF, in a nutshell
10-19-12, 04:15 AM
#592
out walking the earth
10-19-12, 11:52 AM
#593
Senior Member
I do believe that given the difficulty of detecting some of these drugs and given that, at least in the case of EPO, their effects can be mimicked via other means, they weren't far off the best solution by setting an objective Hematocrit limit and allowing the athletes to make decissions about how they choose to attain that level, sleep high, altitude tent, epo. The thing that I don't see a way around is how hydration and total blood volume effect that measure. Even if you test every participant beforehand, there's little stopping them from topping up with saline before hand. And post performance testing would be equally effected by hydration levels.
I've never been an LA fanboy in the sense that I was blind to the fact that he was doping. I always phrased it as, reasonably sure that he's doing what all the other riders are doing at that level just doing it better and more systematically.
I guess the answer lies in defining "clean" or "clean enough". (shoulder shrug)
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Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
10-20-12, 01:09 PM
#594
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A good write-up appears in today's NY Times which outlines the case which the USADA built from teammate testimony against Lance. It makes the outcome seem more tentative than ever. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/sp....html?hpw&_r=0
10-20-12, 02:01 PM
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A good write-up appears in today's NY Times which outlines the case which the USADA built from teammate testimony against Lance. It makes the outcome seem more tentative than ever. https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/sp....html?hpw&_r=0
10-20-12, 02:21 PM
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That was very helpful bikepro. But I like the writing in the NY Times. Thank you very much.
10-20-12, 02:51 PM
#599
Senior Member
Lance, The End of An Era
Some are arguing the grueling substance of the tour and other tours are excruciatenly difficult and warrants (or understanding of) a means of support by doping. Others say if you play the game, be in top physical shape, train hard and scuceed on human ability.
Lance Armstrong had everyone fooled, mis-led the constituents of the party and rejoiced in blasphemy and wrong-ful achievements.
What have we done as a world where doping promotes a cheat, a liar and a fool. I will not look up to anyone else as a mentor, hero or herioc icon until the sport is cleaned up.
Just my opinion highlighting a shameful scandal.
Lance Armstrong had everyone fooled, mis-led the constituents of the party and rejoiced in blasphemy and wrong-ful achievements.
What have we done as a world where doping promotes a cheat, a liar and a fool. I will not look up to anyone else as a mentor, hero or herioc icon until the sport is cleaned up.
Just my opinion highlighting a shameful scandal.
10-20-12, 03:06 PM
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