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  1. #1276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    I'll take a discredited career and $125M in the bank any day of the week.
    This is the mindset is the crux of the majority of the problems with the world.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  2. #1277
    Off your Donkey, lets go Burr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
    This is the mindset is the crux of the majority of the problems with the world.
    I don't think I could look in the mirror !!!
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  3. #1278
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
    I definitely don't believe that he is truly sorry. It really doesn't matter. I've never cared either way, so I watched the interview from a neutral position. After watching it, I actually feel negative towards him now. I think someone here nailed it when they said "sociopath"! I'd also toss in ego-maniac and arrogant.
    I was thinking the same thing as I watched. Like her or not, I think Oprah did a good job. She did a good job of going after him even as he waffled on some of the questions. And she's pretty good at going into that friendly mode that gets him talking after a challenging question.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  4. #1279
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    Everyone has a price. Everyone.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  5. #1280
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfred View Post
    Everyone has a price. Everyone.
    That's really not the right analogy. Lance wasn't bought. He went out and made this happen. This wasn't a case of temptation. He was the driver.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  6. #1281
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    I just reeeally can't buy the "I just gave the UCI jerks free money cause I could" bit. Doesn't add up.

  7. #1282
    Retired USAF, C-130 Guy M_Wales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burr View Post
    Well, I guess there is really no Santa Claus, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy

    The hell you say!!

    No spoilers please...

  8. #1283
    Senior Member Hapsmo911's Avatar
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    "I was clean in '09 and '10" I LOL'ed

  9. #1284
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
    I was thinking the same thing as I watched. Like her or not, I think Oprah did a good job. She did a good job of going after him even as he waffled on some of the questions. And she's pretty good at going into that friendly mode that gets him talking after a challenging question.
    Yeah, I think Oprah is a great interviewer. She doesn't muddy the questioning with her own opinions, she simply asks the questions and lets the viewers be the judge. IMO, if Lance isn't going to come completely clean, then he can just save his breath. He should just make real, private apologies to the people he hurt. I don't think he hit rock bottom, it seemed like he is trying to cling onto the walls and limit how far his personal fame and wealth implode.
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  10. #1285
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kind of Blued View Post
    I just reeeally can't buy the "I just gave the UCI jerks free money cause I could" bit. Doesn't add up.
    Yeah, that does not smell right at all!
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  11. #1286
    Off your Donkey, lets go Burr's Avatar
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    I rode in a few of those 130 and 123 in Nam.

    M_Wales

    Retired USAF, C-130 Guy Join DateApr 2011LocationNewport News, VA.Posts795
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  12. #1287
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post
    Sorry guys for multiple posting, but I have to say this: I had testicular cancer in 2004 and I can tell it did not turn me into a bad person; it was quite the opposite. It turned me into a lamb because I became an appreciator.
    His explanation just doesnt sound plausible. edit: doesnt sound plausible if you're a "normal" person.
    We all cope with catastrophic illnesses in markedly different ways.

    Having been diagnosed with diabetes over 15 years ago made me a kinder and gentler person in some areas, In other areas, however, it has made me a fierce competitor because I know my time is limited and so I don't have the time or the patience to deal with BS.
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  13. #1288
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstrong View Post
    I figured out WAY TOO LATE that I should have organized a Confession Watching Party!
    Heard there was a big one at the Boulder Brewery tonight. I watched at home with my family.

    Oprah did a pretty damn good job. She follows up on cagey answers, but I don't think he came clean on the 2001 Tour de Suisse coverup and the UCI donations. He's probably just waiting for the subpoenas.

    I guess we'll have to read the entire USADA Reasoned Decision for the answer to 2009-10.

  14. #1289
    Gouge Away kaliayev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post

    I guess we'll have to read the entire USADA Reasoned Decision for the answer to 2009-10.
    Yeah I would like to see how USADA can explain that everyone except Armstrong stopped doping after 2005. I do think Armstrong lied about doping in his comeback, but USADA seems a bit hypocritical in their crusade to clean up the sport by giving all the guys who testified against Armstrong a pass on this.
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  15. #1290
    Senior Member oldbobcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbobcat View Post
    I guess we'll have to read the entire USADA Reasoned Decision for the answer to 2009-10.
    OK, I just looked up Section V.A. of the Reasoned Decision.

    Collectively, the grouping of low reticulocyte percentage during the 2009 and 2010 Tours
    de France, coupled with his unusual decrease in calculated plasma volume during the middle of
    the 2009 Tour de France, build a compelling argument consistent with blood doping.

    I'm sure he's still lying about that, too.

  16. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
    That's really not the right analogy. Lance wasn't bought. He went out and made this happen. This wasn't a case of temptation. He was the driver.
    The comment wasn't about Lance. But, was aimed at those who proclaim how they would pass up $125,000,000 if it meant compromising their ethics. I've watched one person after another back stab, betray and lie for jobs or promotions worth a whole lot less than that.
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  17. #1292
    Senior Member buddy's Avatar
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    WOW! I never thought I would hear LA say he doped.

  18. #1293
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaliayev View Post
    ..., but USADA seems a bit hypocritical in their crusade to clean up the sport by giving all the guys who testified against Armstrong a pass on this.
    Without their testimony, none of this would be happening right now. Law enforcement does this all the time: cut deals with the street dealers, so they can get the Escobars.
    Besides, it's not really a pass; they had to confess, now they're tarnished too. It's like watching Basso or David Millar: even if they ever win, most of us will always see them as former dopers.
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilWeasel View Post
    Well, if you are gonna carry a snapped frame all the way home. It might as well be light weight carbon fiber.

  19. #1294
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafzali View Post
    if they went on Piers Morgan or the show of someone else who really asks tough questions that sometimes makes people uncomfortable.
    Yeah Purse could ask him a hundred times over whether riding on treadless tires was a good image to promote to the kids. Lance could say they were safer, and Purse could answer "we will get to that in a moment".

  20. #1295
    OM boy cyclezen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    ...
    Besides, it's not really a pass; they had to confess, now they're tarnished too. It's like watching Basso or David Millar: even if they ever win, most of us will always see them as former dopers.
    there's that. but really for guys like Basso & Millar, those were very personal, 'my own' type of decisions and in a world of dopers, being one of the better ones is only mildly annoying. No one was murdered, the foul was more 'technical' than 'personal'.
    I'm willing to give all these guys a pass after they have a time out. The doping culture was/is sport wide, actually SPORTS wide. Hard to blame riders who just worked the system as best they could. Pick a winning name in the past 12-15 yrs - good chance there's doping attached...

    Lance, by his direct attacks on others made it more of a personal foul.
    I saw the interview - pt 1. I think it was a good start to becoming a human being again. Course it's all just words and the actions of rest of his life, starting now, will prove how true they are/were.
    I've never been a Lance fan, but I'm willing to cut him that slack. Some form of reparations for those he actually did hurt. Start living the truth not the lie. Start Working to bring cycling to a better place.
    There's huge opportunity for him to repatriate himself - just a question how sincere he really is and how well he can keep his eye on the ball.

    I hope he can do it.
    Cyclists don;t go around shooting wives, abusing animals, generally being miscreants, gangstas and thugs
    Maybe even the top of the cycling food chain can admit when they're wrong, eat humble pie and learn to do the right thing.
    would make a much better ending...
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  21. #1296
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    " I lived in the Nashville TV market when Oprah was getting her start on WSMV and she's never been a hard-hitting journalist. "

    Exactly why I and 100 million Americans (or more) and love Oprah. She is a real human being, not an attack dog that nobody loves nor respects.
    "We unfurled upon an alpenstick the small silk"-Allen and Sachtleben, 4 July 1891 mid-tour atop Ararat.


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  22. #1297
    Mr. Dopolina Bob Dopolina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstrong View Post
    I figured out WAY TOO LATE that I should have organized a Confession Watching Party! Maybe just a drinking game...how drunk could you get if you drank when you heard:

    "Everybody was doing it"
    "Level playing field"
    "I did not have sexual relations...." oops...wrong guy

    What else should I listen for?
    Our party was for every time he mentioned Livestrong or wrapped himself in the Livestrong banned. I think PtII will be good for that.
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  23. #1298
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    Anyone who is a law student planning a career in a D.A. office somewhere as a prosecuting attorney should study Oprah's performance in this LA episode. She prepared and knew the details of the case pretty well for an outsider from the world of bike racing. She asked pertinent questions that got to important issues without appearing unnecessarily accusatorial nor confrontational.

    Compare that with Marcia Clark at the O.J. trial. She got into name calling fights with the lead defense attorney in the courtroom. She tried to paint Roosevelt Grier as not quite a legitimate clergyman (because he had no college degree) in order to force him to divulge O.J.'s cell room conversations. Yeah, like that went over big with an African American jury. The jury was looking for any excuse at all to decide against an attorney they just did not like, nor respect. The image the prosecution should project is that of an unbiased professionalism trying to get at a transparent truth, instead of a one sided team using any trick to win a verdict. The best way to project that is to be that.

    Oprah comes of as a decent and good person, genuine. She would have made a great trial attorney!
    "We unfurled upon an alpenstick the small silk"-Allen and Sachtleben, 4 July 1891 mid-tour atop Ararat.


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  24. #1299
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    If it calms you down try 'Armstrong demonstrated no abilities racing in the high mountains.'
    It's funny how you make your digs when you realize that what you initially wrote is lacking in substance, so much so, that you have to alter what you said to express what you supposedly meant. This isn't the first time you've instigated this type of exchange -- acting as if you know my metal state and telling me to relax or be calm. In any case, hope it calms you to know I'm as calm now as I was before your belatedly added qualification.

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    No, not my point. I'm simply saying that PEDs made more than 7 minute difference in speed.
    Well the way I'm taking it: youre saying that PEDs gave Lance 7 minutes on Basso, Ulrich, Zuelle, & Beloki,. But these riders were most probably using PEDs, so it was a wash. agree? Now over a hypothetically clean field, I wouldn't be surprised if PEDs would have given Lance a 15 minute difference. But then, my ignorance of the precise benefits of the use of PEDs makes any opinion I might offer on the approximate time gain over a clean field useless to nearly useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    My guess as I've said elsewhere, and I think you agreed with, is that Armstrong in a completely drug free field, still dominates his era, but wouldn't win 7 in a row, due to bad days being almost inevitable without transfusions.
    More or less, but I do have my doubts that he would have dominated. And yes, I do believe that he as well as others would have had "bad days."
    Last edited by gsteinb; 01-18-13 at 05:14 AM.

  25. #1300
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    It's a joke. Internet banter. A stock bulletin board line. 'Calm down.' I've posted that perhaps several hundred times here. It's actually a carry over from another board I was on.

    So no, there is no tactic. I meant it the way I said I meant it. And others got that as well. That you want to make debating the nuance of my post a hobby is your issue. I don't care. I watched Lance come up as a junior, and know what I and others thought of his abilities.

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