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  1. #1301
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Timely comparison. What the heck?

  2. #1302
    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
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    "The best question"

    Why now?

    And he didn't answer it.

    Does anyone believe he'd be admitting he took PEDs if he wasn't already facing irrefutable evidence and the old denials just didn't wash anymore?

    He confirmed he beat the 1999 positive for Cortisone by faking a doctor's cert. so let's hear no more "he never tested positive".
    History is the future

  3. #1303
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    Ofcourse it made a difference, that's why he/they did it.

    How much of a difference? Who knows?

    The question is irrelevant as he never won a TdF or an Olympic medal.

    http://www.olympic.org/news/ioc-stat...mstrong/188433

    Get over it.
    He did win a world champnship, however.
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  4. #1304
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    I think last night's performance should be referred to as "Lance's partial confession".
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  5. #1305
    Gouge Away kaliayev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    Without their testimony, none of this would be happening right now. Law enforcement does this all the time: cut deals with the street dealers, so they can get the Escobars.
    Besides, it's not really a pass; they had to confess, now they're tarnished too.
    Well USADA is not law enforcement and they have taken the moral high ground in all this. To pretend that doping stopped in 2005 lessens that high ground.
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  6. #1306
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    This is all about deflection and damage control. He's trying to will the story away but admitting to some of the smaller more obvious stuff so he can try and earn again, and not get nailed for the conspiracy and pay off stuff. I think he's miscalculated.

  7. #1307
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    I just hope the yellow bracelet brigade who uniformly slammed Lemond (The Only American to Have Ever Won the Tour) take a sharp hit on the Ebay resale of their Treks before they go sully some other sport.

    He may not have introduced doping to cycling, but he sure brought a lot of dopes into our midst.
    Good grief...
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
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  8. #1308
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez3 View Post
    That's not what he said. The payment came after he retired and before the retroactive tests so what he was saying was that the only test he could have been accused of covering up with that contribution was at the tour de Suisse. People mess up the timeline on when the contribution to UCI occurred.
    McQuaid says that Armstrong made a $25,000 contribution in 2002. That's definitely before Armstrong retired, and a second one of $100,000 in 2005. Whether that was before retirement would depend on the time in 2005.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcqu...ons-to-the-uci

    One of a number of things that Armstrong was less than candid about.
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  9. #1309
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Some of the twitter takes are pretty good:

    Former Armstrong mechanic and assistant Mike Anderson, who had to battle legal action after accusing the Texan of drug use

    “I don't want to waste any more of my time with Lance Armstrong. He's an incredible actor and that's what you (saw) today on the Oprah Winfrey Show.”

    Veteran sports writer Rick Reilly, via Twitter

    “After years of lying to my face, Lance Armstrong apologizes in an email. He can keep it.”


    “Sportscaster Jim Rome, via Twitter

    “Lance Armstrong? Isn't this type of confession usually a tearful one? When does the guy start crying?”
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
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  10. #1310
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    I think plenty of you realize this, but Lance isn't done being Lance. He will go on doing whatever he thinks is best for Lance Armstrong at every opportunity. Everybody does that to a certain degree, but for some people it's their whole life and Lance falls into that category.

    He'll loose money and fame for sure, but know matter what it says on paper he will never live like a poor person for the rest of his life. He'll have a big house, car and his children will grow up privileged. And even if he doesn't get around the competition ban, he will still get paid to travel for interviews, book deal and promotional appearances.

    He is nothing if not motivated and determined, and while we watched and read the interview he literally got more done than most of us will all week. That's what people like him do. And if you aren't one than either look out or get on their coattails. Or hope that somebody else that they hurt has a cousin like the Slingblade guy who is fine with taking them out and suffering the consequences. Because there is usually no way actually stopping them that doesn't do at least as much damage to yourself.

    Short of that, get away. Pay as little attention as possible. Nothing will happen here that will be worth the effort or the wait.

  11. #1311
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    Some believe it's the doping that made the difference -- they say but cannot show that his doping regimen was any better/more potent than the doping regimens of other dopers. Maybe that's the case, maybe his doping program was better, but there exists no known produced comparisons between his doping regimen and the doping regimens of other dopers to prove the veracity of that that claim, but people make it anyway.
    There's a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that Postal's (i.e. Ferrari's) doping program was better. Armstrong spent at least a million dollars on Ferrari. Not every rider or team has that kind of money.

    Hamilton talks in his book about not having access to the same program when he left Postal. And the substitute for Ferrari ultimately cost Hamilton due to sloppy work in handling the blood.

    Then you have all the riders testing positive because their programs weren't as good.

    I think it's pretty clear that the entire peleton did not have access to a drug regime like Armstrong did. Thus that limits the field of potential competitors. And at the very top, there's anecdotal evidence that Postal did it as well as anybody, likely better.

    All that said he had Armstrong still had tremendous talent, focus, drive, and I thik he would have been the best rider of his era. However, I think there would have been some losses along the way, and a larger group of riders obtaining top results without EPO.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
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  12. #1312
    Smell something fishy? RedHerring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehammerdog View Post
    Ok people, why Oprah? Why not just come clean in a sit down with Greg Lemond as the interviewer? Or get the TDF team and have Phil L do the interview.
    Because LeMond is a nut and doped too.

  13. #1313
    Smell something fishy? RedHerring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    McQuaid says that Armstrong made a $25,000 contribution in 2002. That's definitely before Armstrong retired, and a second one of $100,000 in 2005. Whether that was before retirement would depend on the time in 2005.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mcqu...ons-to-the-uci

    One of a number of things that Armstrong was less than candid about.
    Here is the intresting part. Lets say, for arugument sake, that LA is telling the truth about not doping in 2009-2010. What does that say about the biological passport?

  14. #1314
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    Well, those guys rode the races. They put in the hard work and endured the pain. I didn't. So who really knows what kind of pressure the cycling world put on these guys to be the best? Would I have succumbed had I seen some potential to win a race? Maybe.

    This won't change my mind about these guys, especially what LA was able to achieve. It was superhuman anyway you look at it. These guys are human, and as humans, we all make mistakes, but our lapses weren't so public. They weren't laid out to the whole world. Our lapses didn't cause so much wide-spread pain to so many. This is the price we pay for holding mere humans up to such a high standard, a standard that we could never really attain. So I won't knock Lance when he is down. I'll look back and remember what he gave us. He was motivation for us all...
    Motivation for what ends? I think we have to look deeper. Motivational speakers do similar stuff. There's a big difference between mere motivation an emulation. Do you really want to be like Lance?

  15. #1315
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    I think plenty of you realize this, but Lance isn't done being Lance. He will go on doing whatever he thinks is best for Lance Armstrong at every opportunity. Everybody does that to a certain degree, but for some people it's their whole life and Lance falls into that category.

    He'll loose money and fame for sure, but know matter what it says on paper he will never live like a poor person for the rest of his life. He'll have a big house, car and his children will grow up privileged. And even if he doesn't get around the competition ban, he will still get paid to travel for interviews, book deal and promotional appearances.

    He is nothing if not motivated and determined, and while we watched and read the interview he literally got more done than most of us will all week. That's what people like him do. And if you aren't one than either look out or get on their coattails. Or hope that somebody else that they hurt has a cousin like the Slingblade guy who is fine with taking them out and suffering the consequences. Because there is usually no way actually stopping them that doesn't do at least as much damage to yourself.

    Short of that, get away. Pay as little attention as possible. Nothing will happen here that will be worth the effort or the wait.
    There are elements of truth in what you say. Armstrong is unlikely to ever be poor. But the government is apparently this whistle blower suit has potential to take a significant chunk. Reportedly he's in negotiations to settle it. It's also not unlikely he has to deal with lawsuits.

    Paying attention, beating the drum, etc are all actions that can influence that happening. The longer is stays in the news cycle of flies around on facebook and other social networks the greater the likelihood folks go after him.

  16. #1316
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cchristanis View Post
    I see that 5 out of the seven tours were won by approx. 7 minutes. One was by almost 5 and one was only by 1 minute. So , do the drugs that Lance took make that big of a difference? Wouldn't he have won easily anyway? 7 minutes is huge in a race.
    But, Hamilton said he was nowhere to be found before that in an interview. He won a few stages and that's about it (I said this last sentence). He was starting to develop cancer and had to drop out of the tour in 95 i believe though. Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    Well the way I'm taking it: youre saying that PEDs gave Lance 7 minutes on Basso, Ulrich, Zuelle, & Beloki,. But these riders were most probably using PEDs, so it was a wash. agree? Now over a hypothetically clean field, I wouldn't be surprised if PEDs would have given Lance a 15 minute difference. But then, my ignorance of the precise benefits of the use of PEDs makes any opinion I might offer on the approximate time gain over a clean field useless to nearly useless.
    The specific premise in the OP's post that I was responding to is that Armstrong still would have won without using PED's because he was so much faster. And that's likely not true. Take away the PED's and he's going to lose more than 7 minutes over the other top contenders, who presumably were using EPO.

    The OP's question wasn't who wins in a clean field, or whether Armstrong had an unfair advantage. The question was whether PED's can make that much time difference.
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  17. #1317
    Smell something fishy? RedHerring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cchristanis View Post
    I see that 5 out of the seven tours were won by approx. 7 minutes. One was by almost 5 and one was only by 1 minute. So , do the drugs that Lance took make that big of a difference? Wouldn't he have won easily anyway? 7 minutes is huge in a race.
    But, Hamilton said he was nowhere to be found before that in an interview. He won a few stages and that's about it (I said this last sentence). He was starting to develop cancer and had to drop out of the tour in 95 i believe though. Thanks
    Are you asking did LA dope better than everybody else and that's the only reason he won? Nope, I don't think so. He won in 2003 by only 23 seconds. Did he dope? Sure. Did everbody else? Yep. Did he crack the code how to dope better than everybody else where a strong team and training had nothing to do with his wins? No way.

  18. #1318
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    There are elements of truth in what you say. Armstrong is unlikely to ever be poor. But the government is apparently this whistle blower suit has potential to take a significant chunk. Reportedly he's in negotiations to settle it. It's also not unlikely he has to deal with lawsuits.

    Paying attention, beating the drum, etc are all actions that can influence that happening. The longer is stays in the news cycle of flies around on facebook and other social networks the greater the likelihood folks go after him.
    Make no mistake: Lance put himself in the news cycle.

    He has done all math on how much money he stands to loose by the admissions he made, how much he can keep for what he didn't admit to and how much he has squirreled away that nobody can touch. He will live like a multi-millionaire for the rest of his life.

    He also calculated what was out there to gain, who best to do the interview and where to have it. It may not have get him everything he wants, but that's ok. He'll be back at it again tomorrow.

  19. #1319
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I don't think I've made any mistakes.

  20. #1320
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    That sounds kind of familiar. Just can't put my finger on it.

  21. #1321
    Senior Member akeelor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThinLine View Post
    Lance Armstrong is a Smuck. I have destroyed anything I have which compliments him as a pro cyclist. Yellow and Black have become my least favorite colors and I hope he becomes homeless living under a trussel bridge somewhere in Oregon.

    He has taken (among others) the sport and totally destroyed it.
    I think the word is spelled schmuck. Anyway, I agree that his actions were despicable and he has tarnished cycling in a bad way. However, forgiveness would be the better route. To err is human.

  22. #1322
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    Make no mistake: Lance put himself in the news cycle.

    He has done all math on how much money he stands to loose by the admissions he made, how much he can keep for what he didn't admit to and how much he has squirreled away that nobody can touch. He will live like a multi-millionaire for the rest of his life.

    He also calculated what was out there to gain, who best to do the interview and where to have it. It may not have get him everything he wants, but that's ok. He'll be back at it again tomorrow.
    I'm sure he, and his team of advisors have carefully run all the numbers.

    However, it may not be panning out the way he hoped. The reapproachment with USADA appears to be a major fail at least according to the WSJ.

    The Oprah interview also doesn't appear to be going as well as he likely hoped. The guarded nature of some of the responses, due to legal constraints, and the fact that he just can't keep himself from being a dick at times, may result in this backfiring on him.

    And reportedly, some of the Armstrong camp were against this whole approach.
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  23. #1323
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    Not at all. I am simply asking if the ped's can make that much of a difference. It's funny though that some people say it's a level field (including Lance) since they "all" dope. All meaning probably 80-90 percent? What do you guys think is the percentage? I guess since ped's affect everybody differently, we will never know as someone already stated. We can see that he came in 3rd in the 09 tour (he says without doping?) , but why should we believe him? I feel he told the truth 90% of the interview. I watched the interview cause I thought it was interesting. I think he was sharp cause he stressed how many times he passed the tests (which is true). This took the focus off the question of did he use the drugs. I did look up to Lance because I know how hard the sport is. I think the TDF makes the superbowl look like a kids tea party. But, I never worshipped him or anyone else and never will. I am my own. I have friends that spend thousand$ on sports whether it's clothes, tickets, etc. I laugh my ass off cause they argue to almost the point of fighting over sports. Sorry, I don't mean to get off topic here. Excuse the somewhat ignorant thread starter. I just don't know anything about the drugs that he used. I don't even watch the TDF. Sometimes, I tune in just to see what is going on. But, I do have a trek madone 5.9 (and other bikes)and i do love riding.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedHerring View Post
    Are you asking did LA dope better than everybody else and that's the only reason he won? Nope, I don't think so. He won in 2003 by only 23 seconds. Did he dope? Sure. Did everbody else? Yep. Did he crack the code how to dope better than everybody else where a strong team and training had nothing to do with his wins? No way.

  24. #1324
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Since they have been cracking down on drug use the finishing times of the Tour and other events have been slower overall... Lance may have been one of the most gifted riders of all time and also had a really good pharmaceutical team.

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    Maybe.

    But think about Lance 10 years from now. What's the worse scenario?

    He could always have the cancer come back. Or somebody kills him.

    Outside that, his day to day existence will be something most people might give up a nut for. And if he is that calculating animal I say he is, he'll look at everyone who thought he's been "taken down" and laugh. It will still all have been worth it.

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