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  1. #1376
    Senior Member kc0yef's Avatar
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    Wow I cannot even believe you could even muster the thought of that
    Lets see Greg gets shot then wins tour de france top that

    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    Greg will serve his cause better if he remains the elder, and circumspect, bike statesman rather than just a guy who can't keep his mouth shut
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepy View Post
    It is my fervent hope that Trek or some other company starts manufacturing Steel Lemond bikes again. Those Trek cornflake bikes that Thugstrong rode eat monkey pooh.
    Trek will never get that contract again they are worse than pance-around-strong they dropped Greg's brand c'mon think about it...
    Gregs Bikes in the past have been usually special: remember the titanium in 1993/4/5 was well you probably don't even remember it and why don't you remember it? Lance anyway Clak Kent made the bikes in Colorado before Lynskey/Litespeed got the contract then Trek then trek Sided with Lance and dropped Lemond
    I doubt TREK ever makes another Lemond.
    riding

  2. #1377
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngateguy View Post
    You pointed out something that I find disturbing. That is the people who jusify his actions because everybody else does it. That attitude has become prevelant in our society and it is just totally wrong.
    How about this..and what I experienced....if you want this job you are going to have to perform. If you don't you lose the job. In order to keep up you are going to have to do some things. If you choose not to, you won't perform and you will lose your job.

    That's your choice.

    Btw...the juice did not make Lance an outstanding climber. I read that somewhere in here and it made me chuckle. Since the climbers were on the juice

    When she asked him if he made people take stuff, he answered that very well. It was their choice, and frankly knowing the culture and flipping through Hamilton's book, it was probably considered a rite of making the first team.

    Ths issue is not whether you all agree wth it. It's how things were done then. If you were racing a bike, this was no surprise unless you are naive or a fool.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  3. #1378
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    OP =

  4. #1379
    Center of the Universe ngateguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    How about this..and what I experienced....if you want this job you are going to have to perform. If you don't you lose the job. In order to keep up you are going to have to do some things. If you choose not to, you won't perform and you will lose your job.

    That's your choice.


    Btw...the juice did not make Lance an outstanding climber. I read that somewhere in here and it made me chuckle. Since the climbers were on the juice

    When she asked him if he made people take stuff, he answered that very well. It was their choice, and frankly knowing the culture and flipping through Hamilton's book, it was probably considered a rite of making the first team.

    Ths issue is not whether you all agree wth it. It's how things were done then. If you were racing a bike, this was no surprise unless you are naive or a fool.

    You also have a choice to be ethical and not break the law in the process of achieving your goals. That is the better path, this win at no mater the cost attitude is a bunch of BS, just like justifying it because everyone else is doing it is BS. So Lances whole life and career is based on lies and deceit, not hero material at all and definatly no reason to condone his behavior
    Matthew 6

  5. #1380
    Senior Member bsektzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    The picture painted was that of a very narcissistic guy, who is almost a borderline sociopath....
    You are too kind...
    Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play.
    Immanuel Kant

  6. #1381
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngateguy View Post
    You also have a choice to be ethical and not break the law in the process of achieving your goals. That is the better path, this win at no mater the cost attitude is a bunch of BS, just like justifying it because everyone else is doing it is BS. So Lances whole life and career is based on lies and deceit, not hero material at all and definatly no reason to condone his behavior
    In this sport, at that time, this was the norm. You can argue all day long about whether it was right or not. But the fact is that you would not achieve your goals, if your goal was winning, by taking "the better path".

    It's interesting to me to read some of the comments because it's apparent that most don't really know what goes on once Versus is off the air. Which is fine.

    At this level you don't train harder when everyone else is juicing. It simply does not work that way. Not if winning is your goal. Maybe it will change...i hope it does...
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  7. #1382
    Senior Member bsektzer's Avatar
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    Norm, shmorm... To the best of my limited medical knowledge, PEDs don't, by default, produce the sort of spectacular personality disorders on display here.
    Experience without theory is blind, but theory without experience is mere intellectual play.
    Immanuel Kant

  8. #1383
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    +1^ Lance's performance was indicative of what has gone so wrong in our society. The attitude that if others do it, it is OK. That is just to old argument that two wrongs make a right. I think at this point, it is evident that Lance is a sociopath. At least he came clean and let everyone know that now. Those whose careers, personal lives, and professional lives were damaged by his actions will likely never get over it, and I think Lance is in for some difficult times for the foreseeable future.
    Be the person your dog thinks you are.
    T.J.

  9. #1384
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    Last edited by canam73; 01-18-13 at 03:11 PM.

  10. #1385
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    How about this..and what I experienced....if you want this job you are going to have to perform. If you don't you lose the job. In order to keep up you are going to have to do some things. If you choose not to, you won't perform and you will lose your job.

    That's your choice.

    Btw...the juice did not make Lance an outstanding climber. I read that somewhere in here and it made me chuckle. Since the climbers were on the juice

    When she asked him if he made people take stuff, he answered that very well. It was their choice, and frankly knowing the culture and flipping through Hamilton's book, it was probably considered a rite of making the first team.

    Ths issue is not whether you all agree wth it. It's how things were done then. If you were racing a bike, this was no surprise unless you are naive or a fool.
    I have no doubt that what you're saying happened. One can debate the ethics of it.


    Had Armstrong for all those years just said I've been tested, never positive, and left it at that, I'd be pretty much ok with it.

    It's the systematic effort to destroy people that tears it for me.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  11. #1386
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Lance Ruined Cycling!!!!


  12. #1387
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Had Armstrong for all those years just said I've been tested, never positive, and left it at that, I'd be pretty much ok with it.
    Yup. He said it was a "flawed" man who did all those things
    I'd say it was a kook who did that. But maybe it's, as Oprah said, just semantics

  13. #1388
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    Sorry Jens. We all love you, but you were wrong about the radios; and Lance is still stinking rich from all this, and all those he ruined are still stinking poor. Not even close.

  14. #1389
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    So the standard here is don't kill anyone and you're above reproach?
    No, that's not the standard and you ought to know better than to twist my words.

    That's not going to get you very far.

    The point is that all the holier-than-thou members here are all getting their panties in a wad. You have all lost perspective.

    As far as I can see, professional cycling is as strong now as it has ever been. LA did not, single handedly, destroy cycling.

    And whether you, or the vultures, wish to admit it, there are thousands of people, maybe millions, who have embraced the sport because of LA, not because of Landis and not because of Hamilton, but because of LA.

    And there are cancer survivors who are alive today because of LA's inspiration.
    My current stable:

    1989 SLX Bottecchia (Campy Athena 11s)
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  15. #1390
    Center of the Universe ngateguy's Avatar
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    All you are is justifying illegal and unethical behaviour because everyone else was doing it. It ys true that it is the "norm" but that is all the more you should be up in arms that this investigation is not running deeper and involving the whole sport. That still does not let Lance off the hook for how he has betrayed the sport, fans and even our country.

    I don't care what goes on Versus the only time I have it on is during the races and I have the volume off. TV sportscasters are the worst source of information you can find.
    Matthew 6

  16. #1391
    Off your Donkey, lets go Burr's Avatar
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    Burr,
    I Push Iron & Turn Cranks!
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  17. #1392
    reductio ad absurdum ericy's Avatar
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    I am still trying to get my head around everything he was saying last night, and I guess there will be more to come tonight. But if it was anything like last night, I expect that Armstrong will only go so far, and I don't expect any new revelations.

    To me it seems that Armstrong is partway through recovery of OPD (Obnoxious Personality Disorder). He seems that he can now admit that he has done some horrible things to some people, but he is very reluctant to go into lots of details. He can admit that he doped and that he acted like a jerk, but that's as far as he will go. So I am thinking that he hasn't hit bottom yet, and he needs some more time to contemplate what it is that he has done. Whether or not that ever happens is another matter..

    But I guess what bugs me is that he won't go into details about how the doping took place, and the relationship with the doctor. And he won't admit to doping during the comeback. He won't admit to much after 2005 other than acting like a jerk, in fact. I suppose he is walking through a legal minefield right now, which limits his willingness to answer candidly. If that is the only thing holding him back, then perhaps in the future he will be even more candid. Or not..

    I am trying to figure out what was it that motivated him to do these interviews in the first place. There must be some angle - some advantage that he is seeking that caused him to decide to do this. I didn't sense a lot of contrition last night.

  18. #1393
    Senior Member
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    He's only confessing now cuzz he know he's busted. and could face jail time.

  19. #1394
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    Wonder how much Jens knows.

  20. #1395
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    And there are cancer survivors who are alive today because of LA's inspiration.
    That's gold baby, gold.

  21. #1396
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    As far as I can see, professional cycling is as strong now as it has ever been.
    Glasses can correct nearsightedness. A quick look at sponsors and teams that have left the sport in the last few years could also help.

    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    And there are cancer survivors who are alive today because of LA's inspiration.
    Name two.

    There are certainly thousands alive today because of research, medical advancements, and treatment. But I'm not aware of anyone that beat cancer through "inspiration".
    Last edited by Racer Ex; 01-18-13 at 05:41 PM.

  22. #1397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burr View Post
    The only thing Lance should ride again is a "Beach Cruiser"
    what did the beach cruiser do? I have one I like to ride from time to time

  23. #1398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Glasses can correct nearsightedness. A quick look at sponsors and teams that have left the sport in the last few years could also help.



    Name two.

    There are certainly thousands alive today because of research, medical advancements, and treatment. But I'm not aware of anyone that beat cancer through "inspiration".
    Yes, and Livestrong does not do those things. They do not fund research, medical advancements, or treatment. Here's there mission statement for those that believe they have raised money for research. http://www.livestrong.org/What-We-Do/Our-Approach
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  24. #1399
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    There are certainly thousands alive today because of research, medical advancements, and treatment. But I'm not aware of anyone that beat cancer through "inspiration".
    I suppose it's possible. Some people could have been inspired to keep getting chemotherapy or to go for the extra surgery instead of giving up and staying home. No way to quantify or show that it was the most effective use of funds.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  25. #1400
    Senior Member Nachoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    I don't think she has been very articulate with her Lance bashing.
    .
    .

    Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.

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