Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-20-13, 06:29 PM   #1476
Caretaker
Heretic
 
Caretaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Posts: 1,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
^^And Ben Johnson won that gold medal in '88. Phenomenal sprinter.
Caretaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 06:34 PM   #1477
bike56
Senior Member
 
bike56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: MS
Bikes: Trek 1200 Felt F3
Posts: 198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Great artical Thanks
bike56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:03 PM   #1478
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
^^And Ben Johnson won that gold medal in '88. Phenomenal sprinter.
Exactly!
I read that Lewis had tested dirty in some races in '88, but those tests were covered up.
Next.

Quote:
Carl Lewis has broken his silence on allegations that he was the beneficiary of a drugs cover-up, admitting he had tested positive for banned substances but claiming he was just one of "hundreds" of American athletes who were allowed to escape bans."There were hundreds of people getting off," he said. "Everyone was treated the same."

Lewis has now acknowledged that he failed three tests during the 1988 US Olympic trials, which under international rules at the time should have prevented him from competing in the Seoul games two months later...

Johnson has now demanded that Lewis be stripped of his medals from Seoul, although the International Olympic Committee has no plans to review the situation because it has a statute of limitation set at three years.

"Do you expect him to say anything different?" said Lewis. "I mean we're talking about Ben Johnson. Come on. Let's be realistic."

Lewis, 41, said he was not concerned about the uproar around the world caused by the revelations. "It's ridiculous. Who cares?" he said. "I did 18 years of track and field and I've been retired five years, and they're still talking about me, so I guess I still have it."
But they'll take Lance's medal back?
It's all politics...

Last edited by Cat4Lifer; 01-20-13 at 07:20 PM.
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:13 PM   #1479
Angio Graham
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Contador, Basso, Landi and Vino all tested postive, didnt they ?
Angio Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:14 PM   #1480
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Not Basso
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:15 PM   #1481
Angio Graham
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think Lance was the best rider of his generation.

He doped but they all doped.

He beat everyone else.

If Lance wasnt the best rider from 1999-2005 then who was ? I know I was clean during that time so maybe its me !!!
Angio Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:17 PM   #1482
Angio Graham
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
^^And Ben Johnson won that gold medal in '88. Phenomenal sprinter.
According to the ESPN special a few months ago, there were probably 4 clean runners in that 1988 final.

Lewis probably wasnt one of them.
Angio Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:27 PM   #1483
Angio Graham
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can understand banning Lance from cycling events but 10k running races ? Thats absurd.
Angio Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:30 PM   #1484
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd like to see him in a master's crit
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:37 PM   #1485
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lance did a crit on wall street with a who's who on NYC cat 1s (some masters). He didn't win.
gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:48 PM   #1486
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 3,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
I think Lance was the best rider of his generation.

He doped but they all doped.

He beat everyone else.

If Lance wasnt the best rider from 1999-2005 then who was ? I know I was clean during that time so maybe its me !!!
Good one! I was clean too...except for my asthma medication. Time to call Oprah!
eja_ bottecchia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:51 PM   #1487
gsteinb
out walking the earth
 
gsteinb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: teh Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 19,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
According to the ESPN special a few months ago, there were probably 4 clean runners in that 1988 final.

Lewis probably wasnt one of them.
Lewis failed a test at the trials that was squashed. He shouldn't have even been there.

gsteinb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:25 PM   #1488
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thats what I heard aswell... it was in a tv program about doping and stuff, a high official straight forward said that Lewis failed and that the thing was put under the carpet just before the olympics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
Lewis failed a test at the trials that was squashed. He shouldn't have even been there.

ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:28 PM   #1489
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you guys look at it 7 mins isn't enough either... he took seconds here and there and after a month was 7 minutes. I'm under the impression that to many is a lot of time but in a month of competition and with the climbing they have in the tour 7 minutes after a month is not a lot either, all depends of the point of view too, specially at the level this guys are.
ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:39 PM   #1490
Angio Graham
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
I'd like to see him in a master's crit
I saw Landis race in the Manhattan Beach Grand Prix Crit during his comeback after TDF. It was the most uninspiring thing I have ever seen.
Angio Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:45 PM   #1491
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
I saw Landis race in the Manhattan Beach Grand Prix Crit during his comeback after TDF. It was the most uninspiring thing I have ever seen.
So did I!
I even said to him "good luck." lol
I think Rahsaan Bahati won that year
Interesting Landis would later join Bahati's team
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:57 PM   #1492
Nick Bain
Senior Member
 
Nick Bain's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Driftless
Bikes: Caad8, Tarmac, Raleigh M80, Mukluk 3, Custom chopper.
Posts: 1,717
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Question; why did the andreus persue Lance were they forced too?
Nick Bain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 09:10 PM   #1493
OrionKhan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 1,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
She did and does seem to be obsessed and crazed.
So, sure she deserved it.

The same Frankie, George, Levi, Jonathon, Dave, and Tyler have returned.
Zero.
The problem with your argument is that Betsy was telling TRUTH. And Lance, the person calling her crazy and obsessed, was lying all of the time for years on end. So no, she didn't deserve to be called crazy and obsessed. She was right all along.
OrionKhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 09:10 PM   #1494
Bikehog
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 29
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What was obvious to me in the Oprah interview is Lance was remorseful. Remorseful that he got caught. Remorseful that his children have to live with this. Remorseful that he came back in 2009 , which in his eyes , led to him being caught. But little remorse for the cheating - most of his remorse was for being caught. Find it very hard to have much sympathy for him. But with that said , I wish no ill will towards him and hope he finally finds the inner peace that he is so desperately seeking.
Bikehog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 09:17 PM   #1495
bigfred 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NZ
Bikes: More than 1, but, less than S-1
Posts: 3,834
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Guys, "7 minutes" is irrelevant. Give the defensive tactics once one is in the lead, etc. It's not like he was riding the entire like an individual TT.

The question would have to be reworded to "Did the PED's make 'the' difference for Lance?"

Probably so, in combination with the PED's for some of the key players on his team. He is convinced, that without them he couldn't have done it. And, as Henry Ford is so oftern quoted, "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're probably right".

When do we get to put this to rest and look to the future?

Come on spring time and a new season!
__________________
Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
bigfred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 09:33 PM   #1496
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Bain View Post
Question; why did the andreus persue Lance were they forced too?
They didn't pursue Armstrong. They got subpoenaed in the SCA case, and decided to tell the truth, rather than lie and perjure themselves.
Bacciagalupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 09:56 PM   #1497
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
The problem with your argument is that Betsy was telling TRUTH. And Lance, the person calling her crazy and obsessed, was lying all of the time for years on end. So no, she didn't deserve to be called crazy and obsessed. She was right all along.
I'm not making argument; I'm just stating my opinion.
You don't agree and think she's not obsessed, that's your opinion.
But to me she comes off as obsessed and a bit wacky. Lance "destroyed" cycling and her "cheating" husband didn't?! lol
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 10:13 PM   #1498
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I remember reading Lance Armstrong & the 1999 Tour de France, and it includes Frankie Andreu's published diary he kept at the race. In it, he mentioned a rider, Ludo Dierckxens, had confessed to taking a banned substance; Ludo confessed before the results were returned because he was worried he'd test positive. Anyway, Frankie, who now admits to doping in the '99 TDF, publically chided Dierckxens and said something to the effect that he had lost respect of the peloton. Interesting that Frankie would cry about being attacked by Armstrong when he published his disparaging remarks about Ludo knowing that he was a "cheat" himself. If only he were as successful a rider, he would be expected to answer WTF was going through his mind when he decided to publish his opinion of rider that had never spoken ill of him. Oh the poor Andreus? Yeah ****ing right. lol

Before some Andreu fan-boy comes crying, "But Armstrong was way, way worse!!!" I agree. Armstrong did it more frequently and would agree more harshly. Of course, in principle, what Frankie did was the same as some of the things Lance is said to have done.

Last edited by Cat4Lifer; 01-20-13 at 10:27 PM.
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 11:48 PM   #1499
Angio Graham
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Bikes:
Posts: 428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Personally I think that things said in a hospital room to doctors when in a life threatening situation should be kept confidential.
Angio Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-13, 12:05 AM   #1500
eja_ bottecchia
Senior Member
 
eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 3,513
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
From I Love Cycling

http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Love-Cycling/283800981864

Here's our one and only post on Lance-gate. We get asked all the time what we think about the situation…what we think about Lance. The truth is, I don't like to think about it. Why? I don't feel "cheated"…don't feel betrayed or lied to. Nothing like that. Watching Lance's wins are some of my best memories. His domination of his opponents not only on the battlefield - but utterly crushing them mentally as well – it was a level that we have seen in very few individuals before. His intensity, focus, drive – not to mention his story that calls out to those completely unaffiliated with sport – has made him a Legend.

I cannot reconcile that more people benefited and prospered from Lance's wins than were hurt. The Tour de France was the most popular it ever has been, sponsors saw increased exposure and revenue…the charity wrist band phenomenon was created for christ sake. Teammates benefited monetarily, and went on to lead other teams. If/when they got caught for doping on their new team, then who's fault was that? Nobody but their own at that point. I have a real hard time with the "I was forced to against my will" argument. If it truly was not an accepted practice, then somebody would have been man enough to stand up. Nobody did. There was too much to lose, nothing to gain. Eddy Merckx said it best:

"I'm angry at the riders for speaking to investigators," Merckx said on Le Soir. "Damn it, that they speak up at the time, at least that would be useful. Afterwards is too late. If a rider is concerned about questionable practices, it's his duty to speak up for the good of others."

I have a hard time faulting Lance. I cannot say that I would not have done the same thing. If most of your competitors are engaged in a preparation that clearly benefits them - are you not going to do the same thing? Especially when it directly affects both your performance and monetary status? It's easy to say that you would take the moral high road, but it is much harder in practice. Frankly, 99% of the people condemning Lance in particular and cycling in general likely have moral indiscretions in their lives. This broad hypocritical condemnation makes the entire Lance dilemma almost impossible for me to discuss with people. Every situation has context, and ignoring that and making broad, holier than thou assertions renders it unreasonable to have a real dialogue about the Lance situation.

I don't feel any sort of betrayal or loss or anger at Lance. For the most part, I'm fine with the entire lot of it. All major parties ended up on the winning side. I think. In the past few years I have started working with a number of high level athletes, some of whom have competed directly against Lance. I'm as confident as I can be that they are "clean" athletes. One finished 2nd to Lance at a race. That cost him money and a bit of recognition. Frankly, it cost me money. How to reconcile that? Does that mean there were others that lost similar opportunities? I really don't think so - as the races that Lance historically raced in were BIG races…those that showed up had "prepared", if you will. But I can't be sure, obviously.

The professional athletes with whom I work with at that high level profess to be bothered by Lance-gate. I guess by proxy, it should bother me more than it does. Maybe these athletes simply haven't been exposed to the "dark" side of their sport, either by happenstance or by being at a moral high ground. Regardless, I can't be involved in the utter condemnation of Lance as an athlete. It’s too hypocritically pious, too much unequivocal placing of utter fault. Don't look for it here.

Would the results of Tour from `99-`05 have been different if PED's didn't exist? I doubt they would be vastly altered. Maybe a few placings here and there, but I am dubious we would have seen wholesale changes. In my mind, I am confident that the best athlete(s) won those races. Cycling changed and grew to whole new level because of Lance. Businesses grew because of Lance. The general populous (those NOT involved in cycling/sport) became inspired because of Lance. These things cannot and should not be forgotten. In this day and age of an outlandish level of public information awareness and accessibility, hiding ones flaws becomes near impossible. Because of this, making Legends, perfect individuals without character flaws, is damn near unfeasible. Lance the Legend has done good for his sports, his fans, the stricken people looking for hope…and has the potential to continue to have this impact in the future.

Right or wrong, I choose to think about "Lance the Legend".

eja_ bottecchia is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:57 PM.