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  1. #1501
    One legged rider
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    Carmichael Training Systems

    I'm curious. What happens now? He has built a huge training empire...and yes, apparently it works, thousands of high level amateur racers use it, but what now.
    I did a web search for Chris mentioning Lance, and everything has somehow been removed from the web but news stories, unless I'm missing something. Nothing on the CTS website about Chris or lance anymore.
    Personally I'm curious as to what will happen to his business.

  2. #1502
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    The only coaching needed:

    Ride lots.

  3. #1503
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    http://aol.sportingnews.com/sport/st...-nike-contract
    something interesting about Carmichael in here

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    I'm not making argument; I'm just stating my opinion.
    You don't agree and think she's not obsessed, that's your opinion.
    But to me she comes off as obsessed and a bit wacky. Lance "destroyed" cycling and her "cheating" husband didn't?! lol
    Sure, Betsy is pretty emotional and a little over the top on the matter. But the reality is that she was telling the truth and Lance has been lying about it.

    The question was "Did Betsy deserve to be called a liar over and over, and an "ugly, obese, jealous, obsessed, hateful, crazed *****" because Frankie was a cheater for a few years?" You responded, "She did and does seem to be obsessed and crazed. So, sure she deserved it." Maybe, "she deserved it" was more of a poor choice of words. She sure didn't deserve to be called a liar.

    The issue isn't really weather or not she appears obsessed or wacky. It's whether or not she was telling the truth. The one calling her a liar and personally attacking her, Lance, has now admitted that he was lying all along. You seem to be avoiding that and focusing on her demeanor about the situation. The reality is that she was telling the truth. Lance, himself, said that he was wrong. Now, I don't think the Andreau's or anyone else in the sad saga is without some fault. But you can't defend, justify, or qualify Lance's personal attacks on someone when he admits that he was wrong and can't defend it himself. Betsy Andreau may not present herself well. But the reality is that she has more credibility than Lance does at this point.

    That leads into a big problem for Lance going forward. His denial of any accusations is going to fall on deaf ears. Why should anyone believe him? That's in both the cycling world and in any current or future litigation he may face.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  5. #1505
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrionKhan View Post
    Sure, Betsy is pretty emotional and a little over the top on the matter. But the reality is that she was telling the truth and Lance has been lying about it.

    The question was "Did Betsy deserve to be called a liar over and over, and an "ugly, obese, jealous, obsessed, hateful, crazed *****" because Frankie was a cheater for a few years?" You responded, "She did and does seem to be obsessed and crazed. So, sure she deserved it." Maybe, "she deserved it" was more of a poor choice of words. She sure didn't deserve to be called a liar.

    The issue isn't really weather or not she appears obsessed or wacky. It's whether or not she was telling the truth. The one calling her a liar and personally attacking her, Lance, has now admitted that he was lying all along. You seem to be avoiding that and focusing on her demeanor about the situation. The reality is that she was telling the truth. Lance, himself, said that he was wrong. Now, I don't think the Andreau's or anyone else in the sad saga is without some fault. But you can't defend, justify, or qualify Lance's personal attacks on someone when he admits that he was wrong and can't defend it himself. Betsy Andreau may not present herself well. But the reality is that she has more credibility than Lance does at this point.

    That leads into a big problem for Lance going forward. His denial of any accusations is going to fall on deaf ears. Why should anyone believe him? That's in both the cycling world and in any current or future litigation he may face.
    Well, I think she "deserved it," even if/though she was telling the truth about Lance's doping. I'm not just focusing on her nutty behavior, I'm also pointing out that she and her husband lied about doping. She and her husband played and profited from "cheating" (how much they profited is irrelevant); she was part of the cover-up, and started talking **** after Frankie was off the USPS payroll, and that lead to her being subpoenaed. Does she have more credibility than Lance just because she came out much earlier as a "rat"? Not in my book. Of course, that's not say I think she's without credibility. I just don't think she, like Lance, is above making self-serving and untrue statements or acting in front of the camera.

    I get that you want to dictate what the issue is, but again I don't agree that is the issue. Sure, him lying is an issue, just her husband's lying is an issue. How can we trust Frankie, since he lied about doping? How can we trust her ethical stance on doping, since she knowingly enabled her husband and Lance to continue doping for years?
    Last edited by Cat4Lifer; 01-21-13 at 12:13 AM.

  6. #1506
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Hard to follow that collection of non sequitors and, the desire to see him race a masters crit, and the idea that the only training advice necessary is 'ride lots.'

    Just curious if you're really a four for life and it's showing, or if there's some other connection that I'm missing.

  7. #1507
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    A better title of this Oprah episode would be Lance the Lie and the Nuts Who Love Him Anyway.
    Not surprised the comparison went over your head, Mr. LCD.
    After Japan surrendered and WWII was concluded, there remained Japanese soldiers spread out over the many tiny islands in the Pacific, who had no idea that the war was lost. The continued fighting the lost battle proudly, even though their cause was flawed, their leaders lied to them (and committed heinous acts upon honorable people), and the icons they worshipped proved bogus and impotent.
    With apologies to everyone else with a 3-digit IQ who understood immediately without straining to understand the comparison, you are those Japanese soldiers. You continue to fight for the wrong side, your emperor is not a god, the rest of the world is not wrong; in fact, they are all much, much righter than you are.

  8. #1508
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
    Personally I think that things said in a hospital room to doctors when in a life threatening situation should be kept confidential.
    Any excuse to change the discussion topic from Lance's Colossal Lie.
    Poor Lance. Really was a monstrous thing for her to try to tell anyone the truth. Same with Hamilton, with Lemond, with Emma, with Landis...

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    Well, I think she "deserved it," even if/though she was telling the truth about Lance's doping. I'm not just focusing on her nutty behavior, I'm also pointing out that she and her husband lied about doping. She and her husband played and profited from "cheating" (how much they profited is irrelevant); she was part of the cover-up, and started talking **** after Frankie was off the USPS payroll, and that lead to her being subpoenaed. Does she have more credibility than Lance just because she came out much earlier as a "rat"? Not in my book. Of course, that's not say I think she's without credibility. I just don't think she, like Lance, is above making self-serving and untrue statements or acting in front of the camera.

    I get that you want to dictate what the issue is, but again I don't agree that is the issue. Sure, him lying is an issue, just her husband's lying is an issue. How can we trust Frankie, since he lied about doping? How can we trust her ethical stance on doping, since she knowingly enabled her husband and Lance to continue doping for years?
    I'm looking at the Andreau's regarding Lance's doping. We can trust what she said about Lance because he admitted as much. This thread is about Lance's interview on Oprah. Him admiting that he's been doping and lying about it for years. Him admitting that he was calling people liars when they, in fact, were telling the truth. Lance's lying IS the big issue. It's pretty hard to minimize that. Lance wasn't on Oprah to talk about Frankie's past doping. He was on to talk about his doping, how he lied about it, and got away with it for years. Betsy was brought up because Lance has repeatedly called her a liar in the past. Specifically regarding her allegations about him. Turns out she was telling the truth and he was lying.

    Is Frankie's doping relevant in the cycling world? Yes. But not as much as the rider with the most wins in the biggest race in the sports doping.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  10. #1510
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    Not surprised the comparison went over your head, Mr. LCD..
    You are such a pompous ass that you don't get sarcasm, do you?
    Last edited by gsteinb; 01-21-13 at 08:40 AM. Reason: you can say ass, but not what you wrote
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  11. #1511
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    Well, I think she "deserved it," even if/though she was telling the truth about Lance's doping. I'm not just focusing on her nutty behavior, I'm also pointing out that she and her husband lied about doping.
    Yes, they basically stopped lying about 7 years before Armstrong did... and FA stopped doping about a decade before Armstrong did. And they probably knew that these actions would put them on a metaphorical hit list.

    What they probably didn't expect is one of Lance's former associates, and a former friend, to leave a voicemail for Betsy that said: "I hope somebody breaks a baseball bat over your head. I also hope that one day you have adversity in your life, and you have some type of tragedy that will…definitely make an impact on you." (And yeah, that's documented: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/mo...ticle-1.441582 and http://youtu.be/Dps1TpWfv54 )

    What would you do if you were getting calls like that?

    And yes, Betsy did exert significant pressure on Frankie, on several occasions, not to dope. Including pushing him to stop working for USPS.


    Quote Originally Posted by C4L
    Does she have more credibility than Lance just because she came out much earlier as a "rat"?
    Why is she a "rat" -- for telling the truth? What is this, the 3rd grade?

    What about Emma O'Reilly? She was in the room when Armstrong & Co came up with a plan to backdate a prescription for corticosteroids, which had been detected in his system. When she went public, he sued her for libel, and called her an alcoholic and a prostitute. Is she also "crazy?" Did she "deserve" to be sued and have her reputation dragged through the mud?

    What about Odessa Gunn, Levi's wife? When Levi's testimony started coming out, Armstrong sent her a text message that read "run, don't walk." Do you think he was advocating she take up running to improve her cardiovascular system? Seems unlikely.

    What happened when LA Confidentiel came out? Armstrong sued "the authors, the publisher, the sources, a magazine that ran an excerpt, and the Sunday Times of London, the British newspaper that ran a preview of the book. Armstrong announced the suit at a splashy Maryland press conference on June 15, 2004, then quietly dropped it in 2005, withdrawing his claims before a trial could begin, a tactic similar to the ones athletes Roger Clemens and Shane Mosley would later use against their own accusers." More just desserts?

    So yes, right now Lance has near-zero credibility. And while the Andreus cannot claim moral perfection (who can?), they stuck by their story for years, despite being threatened and slagged left and right.


    Last but not least: Armstrong recognizes that he's harmed Watson and the Andreus (and Walsh and... so many others), and needs to make amends. Why don't you?
    Last edited by Bacciagalupe; 01-21-13 at 08:58 AM. Reason: correcting a name

  12. #1512
    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
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    ^^It's Emma O'Reilly(masseur) not Emma Watson (actress).

    All these threads are a hoot. Keep up the good work guys, it's great entertainment.
    History is the future

  13. #1513
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Bain View Post
    Question; why did the andreus persue Lance were they forced too?
    Betsy Andreu testifed under subpoena in the Arbitration proceding. She was legally obligated to testify truthfully.

    I don't think there was any "pursuit" of Armstrong, certainly not before, the threats, the character assasination, and costing Frankie his job.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  14. #1514
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allez3 View Post
    . Karma is a ***** and it works both ways.
    Karma is a *****, and that's precisely what Armstrong is finding out. Had he not treated the laundry list of people I listed the way he did, the public reaction would not be what it is now.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  15. #1515
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Well, he still has the bands. That's something.

    The article you quoted is relentlessly ignorant of the actual facts of the case, though.

  16. #1516
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    You are such a pompous ass that you don't get sarcasm, do you?

    Better people than you have defended and continue to defend LA....now crawl back to your little life Seņor Ojo de C u l o.
    If you are going to insult someone for their 'little life', I suppose you must fill us in on the details of yours if you wish for any kind of credibility. A list of your race results would work okay, given the context.

  17. #1517
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    OK...OK...OK....so maybe Lance lied.

    Here is the "evidence."



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  18. #1518
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    Well, he still has the bands. That's something.

    The article you quoted is relentlessly ignorant of the actual facts of the case, though.
    That's your opinion, to which you are entitled. Does not, however, make it right.
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  19. #1519
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
    That's your opinion, to which you are entitled. Does not, however, make it right.
    Well no, it's not my opinion. The actual facts of the article do not agree with the actual facts of the case at hand. And 'hypocrisy' does not mean what the writer thinks it means.

  20. #1520
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    ^^It's Emma O'Reilly(masseur)
    Fixed now, thx

  21. #1521
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    Lance the legendary cheater? sorry he got caught, he cheated, What a great example to young athletes, the fact was he cheated, his wins mean nothing to me,

  22. #1522
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  23. #1523
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    Lance should have done what so many of the other riders who were accused and later found out to have doped--just STFU! But I think his ego was too big to go the way of people like George and Levi.
    Yep. In the end, I think his undoing was his ego and Alberto Contador. Lance saw him as a threat to break his run in the TdF and decided to come back. Lance thought he could win still. Said as much to Oprah. And Lance now acknowledges that if he hadn't come back, he probably wouldn't be in this predicament. I think it's hiliarious all the things he said before that '09 race. That stuff about it being about the team and he'd be willing to support another rider. He told Oprah that he thought he could win. No way was he going in to support anyone but himself. Ego run amok.
    Everyone has a right to an opinion. However, this does not mean that one's opinion is right.

  24. #1524
    Senior Member kc0yef's Avatar
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    There is no justification for saying this unless your using.
    It can be done clean and that is the bottom line.
    And as to who are you going to cut loose well I would say side with the one your company is most like and therefor Trek is Just like Lance.
    Red there really is no way out of this for Trek they supported and paid lance to be lance they are culpable as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedHerring View Post
    You're taking LA's quote out of context. He was stating that durring his time (in the golden age of doping) it couldn't be done without PED's. He wasn't saying, ever, or in the future.
    He became a business liability to Trek. If you're run a business and one guy is making you a ton of cash and your other guy gets into a fight with your cash cow which one are you going to cut lose?
    riding

  25. #1525
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    So, here we are again.

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