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  1. #1676
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachoman View Post
    That would cast some doubt on his allegation that he was pressured into it by Lance.
    And I don't think he said that he was pressured by Armstrong. That's what the USADA is alleging.

  2. #1677
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    And I don't think he said that he was pressured by Armstrong. That's what the USADA is alleging.
    Alleging?

    Do you really think LA, who is known to be a perfectionist and a control freak to boot, will tolerate anyone on his TEAM who won't get with the program?

    LA convinced himself that all his rivals were doping, and he wants to win, so how could a non-doper help him win?

    Maybe "pressured" is too strong a word, but there is no doubt in my mind that you could not be on LA's team if you were clean.
    Regards,

    Jed

  3. #1678
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    Alleging?

    Do you really think LA, who is known to be a perfectionist and a control freak to boot, will tolerate anyone on his TEAM who won't get with the program?

    LA convinced himself that all his rivals were doping, and he wants to win, so how could a non-doper help him win?

    Maybe "pressured" is too strong a word, but there is no doubt in my mind that you could not be on LA's team if you were clean.
    Try reading the affidavits; you'll find that a few riders claim they didn't dope for years while riding for USPS, and yet they were "tolerated."

  4. #1679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    Alleging?

    Do you really think LA, who is known to be a perfectionist and a control freak to boot, will tolerate anyone on his TEAM who won't get with the program?

    LA convinced himself that all his rivals were doping, and he wants to win, so how could a non-doper help him win?

    Maybe "pressured" is too strong a word, but there is no doubt in my mind that you could not be on LA's team if you were clean.
    A few of the riders have stated in interviews that they were working hard to get on the "A" team, which recieved the 'special' musset bags at feed time. Sounds like there were riders not on the "program", as the program was expensive. And, there was a list of riders hoping to get promoted to "the program".
    Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.

  5. #1680
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    The nice thing about all this is that that if you want an inexpensive early 00's CF bike and don't care what it says on it (or have access to a can of spray paint), now might just be the time to get your best deal as all the people who bought those post office special editions start putting them on the market.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  6. #1681
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by himespau View Post
    The nice thing about all this is that that if you want an inexpensive early 00's CF bike and don't care what it says on it (or have access to a can of spray paint), now might just be the time to get your best deal as all the people who bought those post office special editions start putting them on the market.
    +1 I joked about this last month, but lately it's become more a serious consideration for me. With the money you save, you can have a custom painter turn a "Trek" into a "Drek" and replace "USPostal: Official Team Issue" with "EPO Jesus: More Testicles Than Scruples" in the original font.

  7. #1682
    Senior Member himespau's Avatar
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    I've never ridden CF and am not so sure about getting a used one, but some of these are probably garage queens that have been barely ridden. It's tempting to at least take a look into what's out there. I'm cheap enough that I'd probably just keep the paint original and boast about the good deal I got to anyone who said anything.
    Punctuation is important. It's the difference between "I helped my uncle, Jack, off a horse" and "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse"


  8. #1683
    Senior Member Cipher's Avatar
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    Austin cyclists organizing to petition city to remove Armstrong from honorary title

    Do you guys think Armstrong should have streets, roads, even bikeways named after him?

    Can we help these guys out? The cycling community in Austin, Texas is organizing an online petition to remove Lance Armstrong's name from the official Bikeway in downtown Austin. Armstrong was previously honored by the city of Austin by naming the bikeway in his name. Now, a group of cyclists want that changed. Please help these guys out by signing the petition to have Armstrong's name eradicated from this honor.

    Change.org petition - Strip the name of Lance Armstrong off of the Lance Armstrong Bikeway

    http://www.change.org/petitions/aust...strong-bikeway
    Last edited by Cipher; 02-06-13 at 07:44 PM.
    Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!

  9. #1684
    Super Moderator no1mad's Avatar
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    The above ^^ post was moved from Commuting, as it clearly wasn't relevant in that forum.

  10. #1685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
    Do you guys think Armstrong should have streets, roads, even bikeways named after him?
    I'm not a resident of Austin any more but if I were I would discount the opinions, pro or con, of non-Austinites. If you don't pay taxes to support the bikeway, don't use the bikeway, and/or you don't vote for the city council, why would your signature on a petition about an Austin bikeway count for much?

  11. #1686
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    My feeling is that there is nothing really here that can't be easily explained as a matter of context, but I will take some time to read it more carefully before formulating a response.
    In what context would saying again and again he first did EPO in 1999 not be a lie?
    In what context would it not be BS to say that Frankie only did EPO to help Armstrong win?
    The context of lying in order to paint Armstrong as the one pressuring Franking to dope?

  12. #1687
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    In what context would saying again and again he first did EPO in 1999 not be a lie?
    In what context would it not be BS to say that Frankie only did EPO to help Armstrong win?
    The context of lying in order to paint Armstrong as the one pressuring Franking to dope?
    I guess I just don't find it so unbelievable that he wasn't all that knowledgeable about the PEDs he was using until 99, at which point he came to take more responsibility for his own use. Perhaps he had significant assistance during that time. And I can accept that maybe he didn't use until after the hospital room story in '96.

    I think it's clear that Armstrong pressured those around to him dope. I don't think it matters that Frankie was doping prior, those two statements don't cancel each other out. The context I'm speaking of is Armstrong - these questions are rarely being asked of Frankie because the interviewer is interested in Frankie...they're really asking about Armstrong. It makes sense to me to frame the responses in relation to Armstrong's involvement.

    I don't know, I mean it's pretty obvious that Frankie lied about his drug use. He is a drug cheat, after all, in many ways no better or worse than any of the others. I just think that, generally speaking, since his admission he has been at least mostly consistent.

    I certainly agree though, that this detailed look at the timeline of his statements is revealing of a tendency to, if not outright lie, at least shade his responses to put himself in a better light.

  13. #1688
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    I guess I just don't find it so unbelievable that he wasn't all that knowledgeable about the PEDs he was using until 99, at which point he came to take more responsibility for his own use. Perhaps he had significant assistance during that time. And I can accept that maybe he didn't use until after the hospital room story in '96.
    The HRS is alleged, by Betsy, to have happened in late October of 1996. You really think he -- as he stated in his affidavit -- traveled to Switzerland with Lingingston in either November or December of 1996? You really accept that over the possibility (more likely, probability) he and Livingston bought EPO in 1996 to use during the 1996 racing season?
    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    I think it's clear that Armstrong pressured those around to him dope.
    Which teammates do you clearly think Armstrong pressured to dope, and on what do you base your thought?
    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    I don't think it matters that Frankie was doping prior, those two statements don't cancel each other out.
    So you believe that Frankie and Kevin traveled together to Switzerland in November or December of 1996 to buy EPO? You also believe that he was pressured by Armstrong to use EPO to prep for the 1998 TDF (a race that he knew Armstrong would not race, ergo a race he knew he wouldn't be able to help Armstrong win)? Or do you believe that Frankie had doped of his own accord for only two seasons (1996 & 1998), but then refused to dope in 1999, then Armstrong pressured a reformed Frankie to dope to help him win the 1999 TDF?
    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    I don't know, I mean it's pretty obvious that Frankie lied about his drug use. He is a drug cheat, after all, in many ways no better or worse than any of the others. I just think that, generally speaking, since his admission he has been at least mostly consistent.

    I certainly agree though, that this detailed look at the timeline of his statements is revealing of a tendency to, if not outright lie, at least shade his responses to put himself in a better light.
    I'd say it's pretty clear that he and his wife lied to put themselves in a "better light." But at this point, Armstrong has slung so much **** at so many people, his main interest seems to be trying to restore at least some of his image and not telling the whole truth.

    Imagine you're Armstrong and you're listening to those two giving interview after interview saying Frankie only used EPO in 1999 to help you in 1999! He probably wanted nothing more than to say: "this lying sack of **** has been using EPO since 1996, and his psycho wife knows it too!" However, knowing that he also was a lying, that wouldn't have been prudent for him.

    But since Armstrong is a big ol' meanie and Frankie is the victim of bullying, it's easy for some to believe that Andreu was pressured to dope by Armstrong, although, there is nothing in Frankie's affidavit that suggests that.

  14. #1689
    Senior Member jfowler85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimsonKarter21 View Post
    Lance.
    Lance keeps the higher ground and doesn't indignify himself with a fight.

    Naw, just by leaving the wife that raised his kids because only famous women will do when you're a doping superstar.

  15. #1690
    Senior Member ChrisM2097's Avatar
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    A different perspective on Lance

    Bill Burr discusses Lance on Conan O'Brian. Funny.

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  16. #1691
    Banned. Mr. Beanz's Avatar
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    Haha, pretty much the truth!

    Speaking of funny, I remember a few years back some chick at a burger stand was wearing a yellow Livestrong band. I asked if she cycled she said no. I asked if she knew what the yellow band meant.

    She said someone gave it to her and said it was to fight cancer so she wore it thinking it released some kind of medicine to fight off cancer. ....

    I just walked off and left it at that.

  17. #1692
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Beanz View Post
    Haha, pretty much the truth!

    Speaking of funny, I remember a few years back some chick at a burger stand was wearing a yellow Livestrong band. I asked if she cycled she said no. I asked if she knew what the yellow band meant.

    She said someone gave it to her and said it was to fight cancer so she wore it thinking it released some kind of medicine to fight off cancer. ....

    I just walked off and left it at that.
    ya, some people will wear anything if they think they're not going to be seen, like at a burger stand.

  18. #1693
    Senior Member Garfield Cat's Avatar
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    Its all about Oprah and her supporting actor.

  19. #1694
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    I thought it was for cancer awareness, not research.

    /ibtm
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
    RUSA #7498

  20. #1695
    Senior Member
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    I lost a lot of respect for Lance when I read his Not About the Bike book. He defended Nike labor practices (and they were under heat at the time) by providing the example that they can't be that bad, as they continued his health benefits when he got cancer. If he both 1) couldn't get the differences between himself, a world class endorsed athlete, and some person working in a factory in China and 2) so confidently not get, then I wasn't much interested in him after that point.

  21. #1696
    Senior Member trustnoone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vins0010 View Post
    He defended Nike labor practices (and they were under heat at the time) by providing the example that they can't be that bad, as they continued his health benefits when he got cancer.
    I remember the health plan coming from Oakley.
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  22. #1697
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by trustnoone View Post
    I remember the health plan coming from Oakley.
    Hmmmm....I don't have the book anymore to check but I remember Nike...Google is of no help either. It is all about recent Armstrong happenings.

  23. #1698
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfowler85 View Post
    Naw, just by leaving the wife that raised his kids because only famous women will do when you're a doping superstar.
    Be nice. Like father, like son. Lance's father split, denying him a father figure, so he's just maintaining the family tradition.

    "Luke... your father was a Jedi knight like you, a powerful jedi he was until the Epo side of the Force destroyed him..."
    Last edited by calamarichris; 02-19-13 at 02:03 AM.

  24. #1699
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    I still wear my yellow bracelet and it has nothin to do with LANCE. It has alot to do with keeping the big C always on the awareness that it is still very much out there and needs to be gone. Don't see near as many as I use to especially from the athletes. Makes me sad.

  25. #1700
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    Oprah awareness: yes she's fine and on TV still!
    Gotta decipher those fine comcast code letters now boys and girls to find her fine station sponsored by all those fine products for the age we live in.
    "We unfurled upon an alpenstick the small silk"-Allen and Sachtleben, 4 July 1891 mid-tour atop Ararat.


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