My (slightly tearful) reaction to the Armstrong news
10-22-12, 01:14 PM
#676
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Really? What's the ratio then?
Look at any sport that has been plagued by PED and Doping scandals. Easy 40% of the top competitors. Cycling - given recent revelations, I don't think 75% and up is out of the question.
If it is that ingrained, do you honestly think the only reason LA won was because he doped/ used PEDs? Maybe if nobody else on the tour was doing it, but when everyone else is doing it.....
Look at any sport that has been plagued by PED and Doping scandals. Easy 40% of the top competitors. Cycling - given recent revelations, I don't think 75% and up is out of the question.
If it is that ingrained, do you honestly think the only reason LA won was because he doped/ used PEDs? Maybe if nobody else on the tour was doing it, but when everyone else is doing it.....
10-22-12, 01:19 PM
#677
out walking the earth
Yes, because by most scientific accounts his V02 max and weight to power were not exceptional. He did more. He did it better. And he was instrumental in his team's doping program. Your inability to accept or grasp the facts of the situation doesn't change it. The idea that he should hang on to his titles is stuff of a fanboy crush.
10-22-12, 01:19 PM
#678
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He returned to the tour in '99 when, as others have put it, the peloton was decimated by scandal. He used his sob story to glorify his win in '99. That was luck, and he didn't an unfair advatange that year
2000 and on was different. Now he was an international hero with a fat wallet. He controlled his team, had connections to the UCI to bury positive tests, and pretty much indirectly controlled doping in the peloton. Competent doping doctors are few and far between. Ferrari is often regarded as the only competent doping doctor in that era. With Lance as his primary client, he pretty much gave Lance eyes and ears on anyone else who decided to use his services. Those who chose other doping doctors instead, e.g. Fuentes, got popped in drug tests due to the doctor's incompetence and/or got caught up in Operacion Puerto.
When people spoke out against him, Lance used his foundation, his money, his reputation, and his political clout to destroy their lives using the legal system. We the taxpayers paid for the courtrooms and judges' salaries for all that crap.
Lance wasn't/isn't just a doper, he's a crook. Your suggestion is to let the records stand?
You're on the wrong page as everyone else. In fact, you're several chapters behind. Catch up.
Last edited by colombo357; 10-22-12 at 01:23 PM.
10-22-12, 01:24 PM
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Yes, because by most scientific accounts his V02 max and weight to power were not exceptional. He did more. He did it better. And he was instrumental in his team's doping program. Your inability to accept or grasp the facts of the situation doesn't change it. The idea that he should hang on to his titles is stuff of a fanboy crush.
I'm glad that UCI is not awarding titles during those years. This way another doper doesn't get them.
10-22-12, 01:28 PM
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Yes, he did.
He returned to the tour in '99 when, as others have put it, the peloton was decimated by scandal. He used his sob story to glorify his win in '99. That was luck, and he didn't an unfair advatange that year
2000 and on was different. Now he was an international hero with a fat wallet. He controlled his team, had connections to the UCI to bury positive tests, and pretty much indirectly controlled doping in the peloton. Competent doping doctors are few and far between. Ferrari is often regarded as the only competent doping doctor in that era. With Lance as his primary client, he pretty much gave Lance eyes and ears on anyone else who decided to use his services. Those who chose other doping doctors instead, e.g. Fuentes, got popped in drug tests due to the doctor's incompetence and/or got caught up in Operacion Puerto.
When people spoke out against him, Lance used his foundation, his money, his reputation, and his political clout to destroy their lives using the legal system. We the taxpayers paid for the courtrooms and judges' salaries for all that crap.
Lance wasn't/isn't just a doper, he's a crook. Your suggestion is to let the records stand?
You're on the wrong page as everyone else. In fact, you're several chapters behind. Catch up.
He returned to the tour in '99 when, as others have put it, the peloton was decimated by scandal. He used his sob story to glorify his win in '99. That was luck, and he didn't an unfair advatange that year
2000 and on was different. Now he was an international hero with a fat wallet. He controlled his team, had connections to the UCI to bury positive tests, and pretty much indirectly controlled doping in the peloton. Competent doping doctors are few and far between. Ferrari is often regarded as the only competent doping doctor in that era. With Lance as his primary client, he pretty much gave Lance eyes and ears on anyone else who decided to use his services. Those who chose other doping doctors instead, e.g. Fuentes, got popped in drug tests due to the doctor's incompetence and/or got caught up in Operacion Puerto.
When people spoke out against him, Lance used his foundation, his money, his reputation, and his political clout to destroy their lives using the legal system. We the taxpayers paid for the courtrooms and judges' salaries for all that crap.
Lance wasn't/isn't just a doper, he's a crook. Your suggestion is to let the records stand?
You're on the wrong page as everyone else. In fact, you're several chapters behind. Catch up.
You shouldn't join the UCI tour after a scandal. ( so anyone who joins now will automatically be a doper?)
He didn't dope in 1999, but the rest of the peloton let him win?
You're pretty adamant about him being a crook as well - you aren't by chance one of those nutcases who donated to his foundation that thinks they should get their money back, are you?
10-22-12, 01:32 PM
#683
out walking the earth
10-22-12, 01:34 PM
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10-22-12, 01:36 PM
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Yep, it's messy to say the least. And depending on what the UCI comes up with today, it could become messier... did USADA have the right to strip Armstrong of his titles back to before 2000, or indeed beyond eight years ago (apparently the "statute of limitation" under the WADA code)?
It could be the UCI decides against accepting the USADA material and actions in stripping Armstrong of his titles. Then we'll seem the fun and games begin.
It's all due to happen today, so stayed tuned folks!!
It could be the UCI decides against accepting the USADA material and actions in stripping Armstrong of his titles. Then we'll seem the fun and games begin.
It's all due to happen today, so stayed tuned folks!!
10-22-12, 01:40 PM
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Ah, but according to USADA, it was them that stripped the titles. According to them, their conclusion released in August meant that UCI was compelled to strip the titles. UCI could have decided not to strip at all.
10-22-12, 01:41 PM
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Which just reminded me of something. Where's all those U.S. congressman who earlier this year wanted to get the USADA report thrown out? If I remember, a couple guys from Texas (of course), I think McCain was on his soapbox, and some guy from Wisconsin (who, now I wonder if he had Trek as part of his constituency). Not so much as a peep out of those guys now.
10-22-12, 01:42 PM
#688
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Travis says, We've stripped Lance of his TDF titles.
WADS says, We support the USADA decission
UCI says, NO, we're stripping Lance of his TDF titles.
And eventually ASO as the ones that actually "own" the event come along and say, We're support the position that there shouldn't be winners for those years.
I can have my fun imagining in my little conspiracy brain how much back room wrangling there has been between those four organizations. I won't be surprised if the fallout continues for a long while.
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Birth Certificate, Passport, Marriage License Driver's License and Residency Permit all say I'm a Fred. I guess there's no denying it.
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10-22-12, 01:43 PM
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Which is all moot at this point, since every organization agreed he was a cheat. Not one disagreed. With the exception of Livestrong, of course. I don't think they've decided to strip his titles yet.
10-22-12, 01:44 PM
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Really? What's the ratio then?
Look at any sport that has been plagued by PED and Doping scandals. Easy 40% of the top competitors. Cycling - given recent revelations, I don't think 75% and up is out of the question.
If it is that ingrained, do you honestly think the only reason LA won was because he doped/ used PEDs? Maybe if nobody else on the tour was doing it, but when everyone else is doing it.....
Look at any sport that has been plagued by PED and Doping scandals. Easy 40% of the top competitors. Cycling - given recent revelations, I don't think 75% and up is out of the question.
If it is that ingrained, do you honestly think the only reason LA won was because he doped/ used PEDs? Maybe if nobody else on the tour was doing it, but when everyone else is doing it.....
I think not. Take a hypothetical scenario. Two riders, one gifted and able to win at times and the other not as strong. The second decided to use PEDs and manages to get a big increase in power and stamina. The first sees he is now losing to someone who he used to beat. Finds out it's because of PEDs and starts using also (because everyone is) but due to physiology, finances, and lack of access to the best money can buy he only gets a small benefit from the PEDs and isn't able to have similar gains as rider two. If rider 2 wins it is because of the PEDs. Period. Not saying Lance is rider 2 but you get the idea. Or maybe you don't.
10-22-12, 01:48 PM
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Yes, because by most scientific accounts his V02 max and weight to power were not exceptional. He did more. He did it better. And he was instrumental in his team's doping program. Your inability to accept or grasp the facts of the situation doesn't change it. The idea that he should hang on to his titles is stuff of a fanboy crush.
Yes, he did.
He returned to the tour in '99 when, as others have put it, the peloton was decimated by scandal. He used his sob story to glorify his win in '99. That was luck, and he didn't an unfair advatange that year
2000 and on was different. Now he was an international hero with a fat wallet. He controlled his team, had connections to the UCI to bury positive tests, and pretty much indirectly controlled doping in the peloton. Competent doping doctors are few and far between. Ferrari is often regarded as the only competent doping doctor in that era. With Lance as his primary client, he pretty much gave Lance eyes and ears on anyone else who decided to use his services. Those who chose other doping doctors instead, e.g. Fuentes, got popped in drug tests due to the doctor's incompetence and/or got caught up in Operacion Puerto.
When people spoke out against him, Lance used his foundation, his money, his reputation, and his political clout to destroy their lives using the legal system. We the taxpayers paid for the courtrooms and judges' salaries for all that crap.
Lance wasn't/isn't just a doper, he's a crook. Your suggestion is to let the records stand?
You're on the wrong page as everyone else. In fact, you're several chapters behind. Catch up.
He returned to the tour in '99 when, as others have put it, the peloton was decimated by scandal. He used his sob story to glorify his win in '99. That was luck, and he didn't an unfair advatange that year
2000 and on was different. Now he was an international hero with a fat wallet. He controlled his team, had connections to the UCI to bury positive tests, and pretty much indirectly controlled doping in the peloton. Competent doping doctors are few and far between. Ferrari is often regarded as the only competent doping doctor in that era. With Lance as his primary client, he pretty much gave Lance eyes and ears on anyone else who decided to use his services. Those who chose other doping doctors instead, e.g. Fuentes, got popped in drug tests due to the doctor's incompetence and/or got caught up in Operacion Puerto.
When people spoke out against him, Lance used his foundation, his money, his reputation, and his political clout to destroy their lives using the legal system. We the taxpayers paid for the courtrooms and judges' salaries for all that crap.
Lance wasn't/isn't just a doper, he's a crook. Your suggestion is to let the records stand?
You're on the wrong page as everyone else. In fact, you're several chapters behind. Catch up.
10-22-12, 01:48 PM
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But of course that would have meant less media attention for Tygart.
10-22-12, 01:57 PM
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Armstrong has also now lost the bronze medal he won at Sydney, as well as his third place TDF finish in 2009.
10-23-12, 08:00 AM
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https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...nocence_262338
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
10-23-12, 08:06 AM
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https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...nocence_262338
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
He is only making himself look like a fool.
10-23-12, 08:22 AM
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https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...nocence_262338
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
10-23-12, 08:44 AM
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https://velonews.competitor.com/2012/...nocence_262338
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
I think Big Mig is worried about his own titles.
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10-23-12, 09:43 AM
#698
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Lemond kinda clears things up
https://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/67851/popup
https://media.newstalk.ie/podcast/67851/popup
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10-23-12, 01:41 PM
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Or, perhaps, a "glass case of emotion"?
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10-23-12, 03:16 PM
#700
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The Influence Peddler
https://reader.roopstigo.com/view/roo...95#/chapter/1/
Mods: Please feel free to remove if it is posted already. I did a search on the link as well as title and I couldn't find it here.
Mods: Please feel free to remove if it is posted already. I did a search on the link as well as title and I couldn't find it here.