botto 

ask whoooshhh. he's the one who did the research.

jaxgtr

Man I loved being stationed in Italy, great sites and places to visit and the countryside isn't bad either.

Bob Dopolina 

Yeah, I forgot about the ToC move. Like I said I was nearing the end of a long ride and higher brain functions were not working too well.

If he is riding for Levi then his January number make even less sense.

Time will tell.

Oh yeah, him winning another TdF is something only a fanboy could possibly believe.

Hezz

Regarding the first post I have to offer another perspective. The great March numbers are only great in comparison to other Marches, (if it is true and not just marketing hype). The numbers do not necessarily represent close to peak form. Workouts are specifically tailored so that peaking comes close to the desired time. Peaking will not occur until 2-3 weeks after a racer starts making close to all out efforts. I don't think that Armstrong will change the success formula that he has used over all these years. One thing that I have noticed is that certain racers naturally have a time that seems to suit their physiology for peaking. Part of it is trained but part is not. I think that July is LA's month.

Bob Dopolina 

?

I was talking about comparing January number to previous January numbers and then wondering aloud how the latest 'best evar' January numbers would stack against previous March numbers. I was wondering exactly what you point out; Why the change?

As to training methods I think you missed a build phase or two in your synopsis.

Hezz

Sorry for the misleading post. The months should be January in both, regards to my post. But the logic is the same. Though I can see your train of thought. I think I read your initial post too fast and was getting the months mixed up.

Racer Ex 

Incorrect

Pedaleur

Out of curiosity, who do you think had the biggest wins with the weakest teams?

Racer Ex 

Gaul. Landis/Periero. Armstrong in 99. Pantani. The Polish name I can never spell. I don't know enough about team strength as the time line moves backwards, but I'd bet there were several more in there worth noting.

Guys have had their own team riding against them and won. Contador this year; after his own team helped take time out of him in the crosswind split, he glued himself to Armstrong on the flats piggybacking on any work the team might do for Lance. Roche in his Giro win.

DMF 

I hate this mythology. AC simply missed the split, as did the vast majority of riders. Once he missed it, there was nothing anyone could do about it. Even had the three leading Astana riders dropped back, they couldn't have pulled him (or themselves) back up to the lead group.

Are you suggesting they should have lost time just so AC's feelings wouldn't be hurt?

mx_599

thank you DMF

Bob Dopolina 

Considering the fact that AC was the team announced GC contender this is EXACTLY what they should have done. Their positions on GC are meaningless. Do you not understand stage racing?

The split was driven by cronies from days gone by. LA and his faction from Astana were all in the loop while AC was not. To see this as anything other than a coup attempt is naive at best.

DMF 

Bob, I usually respect your opinion, but on this one you're dead wrong. Or you don't understand stage racing.

Just because someone is a "leading GC contender" does not mean that no one else on the team should try to gain time. That would be stupid tactics; a team should try to keep its options open early in the race. **** happens and many "leading contenders" don't make it to Paris.

Besides, AC won comfortably and was never seriously challenged. So where's the beef?

Bob Dopolina 

Agreed, but not at the expense of the guy you brought to win the whole thing.

Think of Voigt sitting up and dropping out of a break (in a stage he may have won) for bigger goals.

Also true. But you don't explore options at the expense of your designated guy. That would be just stupid.

He won because he was the strongest rider out there for that race. He also didn't have a bad day. If he had that smaller time loss could have been a factor. As you pointed out **** happens.

DMF 

That's just the point! There wasn't a damn thing they could do once the split happened. AC was going to lose time X to the lead group one way or the other. It's not like Lance caused the split - Columbia caused it. Lance just managed to hang on while AC didn't.


possibly due to superior experience...

mx_599

I do not understand why some just want to dislike Lance so much...

Bob Dopolina 

Possibly because LA was told the move was going to happen and AC wasn't...

Racer Ex 

You don't.

Bob's dead on correct and both he and I would be glad to compare stage racing resumes against any of you guys. And I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy here who's name appears in a result sheet with Armstrong.

Astana actually put people on the front to extend the lead of the split, rather than just sit on, which would have been the bare minimum acceptable in this case. Had Astana been working for AC they would have all dropped back and gone to the front of the 2nd group to help limit the damage. There's plenty of precedent for this.

They were working against their (ostensibly) GC leader by helping the riders in the break put time into Contador.

From Cycling UK, which has no dog in this fight:

"Armstrong didn't do anything hasty. He watched and waited until it was clear Columbia were going to persist and the break had a chance of staying clear.

Then, with 15 kilometres to go, and with the gap holding at around 25 seconds, he moved to the front, raised his hand and made a circling motion to signal his team-mates into action. He may as well have let down Contador's tyres.

Seeing the opportunity, the Bruyneel-loyal Astana riders lent a hand and with that extra bit of help the gap grew. Whatever they may now say to the contrary, Contador was being stitched up. There is now no doubt the team is split in two. Armstrong has gained the upper hand, and now leads Contador overall by 19 seconds.

Armstrong, who steadfastly refuses to rule himself out of aiming for an eighth Tour de France crown, appeared to make a veiled reference to Contador's slip when he held court at Astana's team bus."

If the exact thing happened to Armstrong back in 2002 and he was caught out while Hamilton, Landis, and Ekimov were drilling it at the front of the split all your heads would have been exploding in anger. Lance would have fired people on the spot.

It was clear who's interest the team was working for. That's not a right/wrong value judgment, it's a simple fact that was acknowledged by every major cycling media outlet outside the US; French, British, Spanish, Italian and Australian.

That there's the need to dismiss reality as "hate" shows why "fan" is just an abbreviated iteration of "fanatic". That there were people in BF who actually reasoned that Lance was deliberately giving up time in the mountain stages to lull the other racers in a false sense of security shows a nearly unplumbable depth of ignorance and blind worship.

txvintage

I'll give ya the stage race result sheet, but I do have a top 20 in a race he won. In 1988

Racer Ex 

TT and TTT. I got top tens

I saw some of the pictures from local stuff when he was still a tri-geek. Let me guess, he rode OTF?

aloysius

That break certainly looked fishy to me. It's one thing to have one guy sitting on the back; it's another to have a contingent of strong riders pulling at the front. Generally speaking, the idea that Contador --universally regarded as the best stage racer in the world -- should direct his efforts and sacrifice his support to get his teammates on the podium strikes me as very odd.

I think that Vaughters' remarks were right on the money. After clashing with his sponsors throughout the season, Brunyeel knew that he wouldn't be back with Astana. Lance is no longer the best cyclist in the world, but he remains the most famous and the most marketable. Brunyeel stands to make a lot of money from his association with Armstrong.

I'm not entirely certain that Contador's situation will be any better this season. Vinokourov has stated that he'll ride for Contador, but who can be sure? Vinokourov, like Armstrong, has a great deal of power within the team. He's a national hero in Kazhakstan; the team was created as a vehicle for his ambitions. Vinokourov is only two years removed from being a bona-fide tour contender. At 36 he not terribly old, and he showed signs of coming into form at the end of last season. I don;t mean to suggest that I believe he can win the tour. I do wonder if he does. I find it a bit hard to believe that he'd give up on his ambitions so readily.

txvintage

And never looked back for the next 65 or so miles.