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Old 05-19-10, 06:29 AM   #1
DXchulo
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Motorized Doping?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-...torised-doping

Hard to believe this isn't an April Fools joke.
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Old 05-19-10, 06:59 AM   #2
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Ha Ha... The paranoia.

The UCI are still trying to work out how why some riders are faster than others, when there all putting in similar training miles & not testing negative for banned substances.

Knowledge is power UCI.

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Old 05-19-10, 07:58 AM   #3
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Legal doping...




You reading Mr LeMond?.

Don't go to your next anti-doping rally & stum up old crap about EPO. Old news.

2010. 1980?.

Last edited by $ick3nin.vend3t; 05-19-10 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 05-19-10, 01:15 PM   #4
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The numbers don't add up. The standard battery pack, which is quite large, provides 45-60 minutes of "assist". The battery pack weighs 1000g. Now over a 4.5-6 hour stage or one day race the additional effort of hauling that battery and motor around the rest of the time it's NOT in use would completely negate any sort of gain you'd get from using the thing.

Of course if the batteries were packed in something like a water bottle and the motor battery contacts were run via a bottle cage you could just keep swapping battery-bottles all day. The problem with that strategy is that you don't dare just toss a battery-bottle into the weeds in case someone finds it and it would be highly suspicious to keep taking your "empty" water bottles back to the team car.
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Old 05-19-10, 01:36 PM   #5
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Get one of them 13lb bikes, bump it up with batteries to the UCI weight, then put a motor inside that bulky powertap hub and vroom-vroom up Ventoux!!!
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Old 05-19-10, 01:55 PM   #6
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I speculated that T-Mobile used such devices after stage 7 of the 2006 Tour. There were some interesting results, and several of their riders were later sacked for doping, so perhaps that wasn't the reason after all.

1 Serguei Gonchar (Ukr) T-Mobile 1.01.43.60 (50.54 km/h)
2 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak 1.00.62

3 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 1.04.27
4 Michael Rogers (Aus) T-Mobile 1.23.87
5 Gustav Larsson (Swe) Francaise Des Jeux 1.33.48
6 Patrik Sinkewitz (Ger) T-Mobile 1.38.65
7 Marcus Fothen (Ger) Gerolsteiner 1.41.77
8 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile 1.43.26
9 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 1.43.90
10 Joost Posthuma (Ned) Rabobank 1.44.41
11 Cadel Evans (Aus) Davitamon-Lotto 1.49.39
12 Vladimir Karpets (Rus) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 1.51.68
13 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 1.56.59
14 Matthias Kessler (Ger) T-Mobile 2.02.77
15 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2R-Prevoyance 2.03.46
16 Eddy Mazzoleni (Ita) T-Mobile 2.04.61
17 Victor Hugo Pena (Col) Phonak 2.08.98

(riders who have been later sanctioned in red)
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Old 05-19-10, 04:36 PM   #7
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The numbers don't add up. The standard battery pack, which is quite large, provides 45-60 minutes of "assist". The battery pack weighs 1000g. Now over a 4.5-6 hour stage or one day race the additional effort of hauling that battery and motor around the rest of the time it's NOT in use would completely negate any sort of gain you'd get from using the thing.
An efficient battery/mechanical assist can easily run for 100 miles, especially if the rider is doing part of the work. The theory is, once the battery runs out the rider waves for a bike change. If battery life improves, in theory it could provide an assist through the whole race.

I concur it's unlikely that anyone is currently using a mechanical assist, but the rewards of cheating are so great, and the risk of detection so low, that it's not completely unreasonable. It's more likely someone will figure out how to make one 5-10 years down the road.
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Old 05-19-10, 07:10 PM   #8
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If you guys can really sway the UCI into believing that, they must really be a bunch of numb nuts.

Trekkie fans?.
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Old 05-19-10, 07:17 PM   #9
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...Trekkie fans?.
The ultra-low power, finely targeted tractor beam has potential...

I suppose Jan could have caused a distortion in the earth's gravitational field.
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Old 05-19-10, 07:21 PM   #10
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An efficient battery/mechanical assist can easily run for 100 miles, especially if the rider is doing part of the work. The theory is, once the battery runs out the rider waves for a bike change. If battery life improves, in theory it could provide an assist through the whole race.

I concur it's unlikely that anyone is currently using a mechanical assist, but the rewards of cheating are so great, and the risk of detection so low, that it's not completely unreasonable. It's more likely someone will figure out how to make one 5-10 years down the road.
Seriously, all they'd need is something that could put out 20-30 watts for a couple hours, or 50-70 watts for 10-15 minutes, and it would confer quite an advantage. Get into a breakaway with something like that, and turn it on when the others start hurting with 15K to go... or turn it on at the start of your time trial...
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Old 05-19-10, 07:55 PM   #11
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some of you all make the tech sound theoretical but it pretty much already exists as the article pointed out. There's this company>>> http://www.gruberassist.com/category/englisch/
http://www.gruberassist.com/english/...t-description/

so all you would need to do is hire the right person to adapt this gruber assist thing...

it seems to make a noise. actually it's really loud. there are rumors on twitter now for what that's worth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGYqKBUEelw
http://www.youtube.com/user/gruberas.../7/jmPUze3WBTw

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Old 05-19-10, 09:39 PM   #12
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The technology is pretty cool. The production model is nearly four lbs, so it's not hard to believe that a good prototype could be much lighter and quieter. All the more reason for UCI to drop the weight limits on bikes a few lbs. If everyone was riding sub-14 lb bikes and a rider showed up at a mountain stage with a 17 pounder the judges would get suspicious pretty quick.

I would think the risk of getting caught with a motor would outweigh the benefits but then I would think that about most cheating these days. Fresh blood and EPO is probably cheaper and easier and you can't mount a motor and claim you thought it was a supplement or use the "I don't even know what a motor is" defence unless you're Amish.
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Old 05-20-10, 04:53 AM   #13
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Well, they could use the corked bat excuse like they do in baseball. "I was accidentally using my training bike."
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Old 05-20-10, 05:10 AM   #14
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*****3nin.vend3t, what's your record for the most things you've been wrong about in a single thread?
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Old 05-30-10, 06:47 PM   #15
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Pretty interesting take on it including some views on Cancellara's amazing escapes in the two classics.

http://www.candidcamera.be/sport/sea...ube_gdata.html
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Old 05-30-10, 07:16 PM   #16
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Pretty interesting take on it including some views on Cancellara's amazing escapes in the two classics.

http://www.candidcamera.be/sport/sea...ube_gdata.html
got a functional link?
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Old 05-30-10, 07:17 PM   #17
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got a functional link?
Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Nd13ARuvVE
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Old 05-30-10, 07:24 PM   #18
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interesting... pretty ingenious mechanism!
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Old 05-31-10, 02:53 AM   #19
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Wow, a week ago I would've said motor doping is a fairy tale, but that video is very impressive.
In fact it's so impressive that I'm surprised it's not commercially available, I like this a lot more than any e-bike I've ever seen.
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Old 05-31-10, 06:36 PM   #20
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Wow, a week ago I would've said motor doping is a fairy tale, but that video is very impressive.
In fact it's so impressive that I'm surprised it's not commercially available, I like this a lot more than any e-bike I've ever seen.
Yeah, wait until we start seeing these things on group rides.

That video was nice and informative until it got to the conspiracy theory part. Watch Cancellara shift gears and suddenly go faster! How did he do it?!?
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Old 06-01-10, 12:55 AM   #21
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(starts humming Mr. Roboto)

Well, I guess the solution is to do what some auto racing sanctioning bodies do and do a tear down any time they suspect funny business.
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Old 06-01-10, 06:57 AM   #22
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I think it will be great of it's not true. Then cancellarra can say that his wins were so incredible
that people actually accused him of being on a motorcycle. That's a helluva compliment.
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Old 06-01-10, 08:54 AM   #23
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the part of that video that translated Cassani's video is great b/c cassani is an authority. but the rest is rubbish. part of the idea of motorized doping is that a racer changes bikes during the race so that he crosses the finish line with a normal bike.

the video maker should have talked about cancellara's bike changes during flanders. the idea of being able to perceive him push a button on tv is NOT compelling, to me. also, did he change bikes after he broke away in paris roubaix and flanders? i'm not sure but i don't think so. didn't he change bikes twice earlier in flanders though? on the other hand, changing bikes is not unusual with so much pave.
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Old 06-01-10, 09:04 AM   #24
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I think he changed bikes before attacking in both races if I remember correctly, but I'd have to check to be sure. And yeah, it doesn't prove anything, and it never will be proven unless he's caught red-handed in some race in the future. It would be funny to see how the peloton deals with someone using such a bike though, I suspect there would be quite a bit less tolerance for that than for normal doping...
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Old 06-01-10, 09:06 AM   #25
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they might not have to "do a tear down any time they suspect funny business." i'm not an engineer but don't electric motors have a lot of wound copper wire? so the bikes could maybe be pretty conveniently checked for a certain kind of magnetic field. wouldn't that field be much more powerful than from the servos on electric shimano shifers also? the striking thing about this kind of doping is how much nerve...how audacious it is. unlike blood doping this kind is so tangible. maybe if a racer was really audacious they could obscure the field with something? someone with technical knowledge should post about whether shielding is possible.
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