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Old 07-02-10, 09:04 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ktanner777 View Post
I wish he would just stfu. No one caaarrrreeeessss FLOYD!
The feds care, and according to the WSJ article two other team members have confirmed much of what Floyd is telling the Feds.

More from the story:

"Federal investigators are looking into Mr. Landis's allegations. The probe is being led by Jeff Novitzky, a special agent for the Food and Drug Administration's Office of Criminal Investigations who led the investigation of the Bay Area Laboratory Cooperative case that implicated many professional athletes in steroid use. Investigators are examining whether the U.S. Postal team defrauded its sponsors by using performance-enhancing drugs while vowing to race cleanly....

Chad Gerlach, who rode with the U.S. Postal team before Messrs. Armstrong and Landis were on it, said he's inclined to believe Mr. Landis's account of widespread doping based on what he saw during his own career. "I believe it because I have seen it personally," he said. "I am not ready to out my friends or provide names. I just saw it. It's just a systematic thing." "
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Old 07-02-10, 09:20 PM   #52
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K now i take back my agreeing with pcad part. Sorry to hear that Bah Humbug.
Thanks, I do appreciate that. It's not that I don't care about cancer victims and their families; I just feel that buying a yellow (or pink) conversation starter to have people congratulate you for "caring" and "helping" is selfish, not selfless, and I'm sick of the attention given it.

Back on topic, I really, really, really hate doping in sports, and wish we had effective and comprehensive testing to the degree that no one dared try. Regardless of the other sacrifices the athletes make, I have a hard time respecting any accomplishments made with chemical assistance. I seem to be a rarity these days.
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Old 07-02-10, 09:21 PM   #53
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K now i take back my agreeing with pcad part. Sorry to hear that Bah Humbug.
No need to take it back. Not everyone reacts the same way. But most people that suffer the blow of cancer will tell you that what others do to try and help is much appreciated. The fact that Bah doesn't buy into it doesn't represent what I have seen from others that have dealt with cancer in some way.
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Old 07-02-10, 09:22 PM   #54
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Thanks, I do appreciate that. It's not that I don't care about cancer victims and their families; I just feel that buying a yellow (or pink) conversation starter to have people congratulate you for "caring" and "helping" is selfish, not selfless, and I'm sick of the attention given it.

Back on topic, I really, really, really hate doping in sports, and wish we had effective and comprehensive testing to the degree that no one dared try. Regardless of the other sacrifices the athletes make, I have a hard time respecting any accomplishments made with chemical assistance. I seem to be a rarity these days.
Agreed
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Old 07-02-10, 09:24 PM   #55
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Haha now i agree with you(Bah Humbug). I used to be a huge baseball fan and Barry Bonds was my idol. When i found out he was a giant fake, i lost all respect towards him. I really hope its not the same for LA. And i'm certain that if lance tested positive once it got out to everybody, so many kids would lose hope/interest knowing that their idol was/is a cheater. If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen. (no drug related pun intended)

And thanks for saying that Tulex.

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Old 07-02-10, 09:25 PM   #56
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Floyd's denial of doping wasn't to protect himself, it was to protect the TEAM and by extension Lance Armstrong.

You knew this already. He did what he thought was expected of him but in the end it got too much for his conscience.

Anthony


A conscience...you crack me up. There are NO professional athletes in any sport who don't dope in some form or another...the payoff is much to big and money makes the world go round.
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Old 07-02-10, 09:37 PM   #57
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Uh huh.

On the other hand, he made up his whole book protesting his innocence. So it's not like he doesn't have a lot of practice cooking up good stories for the press.
BS. Logic says that he cant have been lying about not doping and lying about doping. Guess, it depends on whether you believed him then or you believe him now. A**sole that he may be or not, I'm betting on him telling the truth now as opposed to then.

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Old 07-02-10, 09:40 PM   #58
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I rock a coked up stripper edition Madone.
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Old 07-02-10, 09:41 PM   #59
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If they hadn't given him the hooker with the large Adam's apple, none of this would be happening.
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Old 07-02-10, 09:52 PM   #60
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Landis has no credibility whatsoever. But if he act as the catalyst that brings in the Feds, the whole pro code of silence about this crap will crumble like a stale Oreo. There will be so many former team mates and employees implicating Lance and Bruneeyl that the truth will finally be exposed in my view.

What good will that do for cycling? None. It will be a negative all the way around. It will deep six Livestrong too.

I'm trying to see the point, but it eludes me completely. The battle against doping in today's pro ranks won't be made easier by dragging skeletons out of ten year old closets or burning Lance and Johann at the stake. Sorry.
Your "some things are best left alone" position is a curious one. Do explain. So, the truth hurts? LA and JB should have to own it just as any others in the sport should have to. Are you saying that they're so big, they get a pass? Or that the good they've done, i.e. Livestrong, outpaces whatever wrongs they've done in the past? I'm trying to see your point but it eludes me completely.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:02 PM   #61
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Your "some things are best left alone" position is a curious one. Do explain. So, the truth hurts? LA and JB should have to own it just as any others in the sport should have to. Are you saying that they're so big, they get a pass? Or that the good they've done, i.e. Livestrong, outpaces whatever wrongs they've done in the past? I'm trying to see your point but it eludes me completely.
Again, what good is it going to do the sport to nail people from the past? Why not focus on the present? It's not that people should get a free pass, it's about what good you are going to be doing. Does it serve more of a purpose to nail Lance than what his foundations serves presently? I don't see how, as I know people that have benefitted from the foundation, but can't see how anyone was harmed by his doping, if he indeed did. I can't see how nailing Lance is going to benefit the sport. The issue isn't that people used to dope, it's that they currently do, or so it is supposed. Going afer Lance isn't going to prove today's peole dope, or do a single thing to fix the problem if they are indeed doping.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:04 PM   #62
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if lance came clean, it would not harm the rep. of livestrong. especially since these guys should not be ashamed of performance enhancing and we should not judge it. the fans are just a responsible as the sponsors as are the cyclist, coaches, directors, etc. performance enhancing has been going on since day one in sports, one way or another. floyd is just telling us what we already know, the only thing that remains entertaining are the details.

time to go to sleep in my altitude chamber.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:08 PM   #63
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Again, what good is it going to do the sport to nail people from the past? Why not focus on the present? It's not that people should get a free pass, it's about what good you are going to be doing. Does it serve more of a purpose to nail Lance than what his foundations serves presently? I don't see how, as I know people that have benefitted from the foundation, but can't see how anyone was harmed by his doping, if he indeed did. I can't see how nailing Lance is going to benefit the sport. The issue isn't that people used to dope, it's that they currently do, or so it is supposed. Going afer Lance isn't going to prove today's peole dope, or do a single thing to fix the problem if they are indeed doping.
The truth is the truth. It should be pursued. Always. Else we exist on a foundation of lies. And no good can ever come from that.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:13 PM   #64
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Let's see... lost my grandfather and great-uncle to colon cancer, my ex had uterine cancer (at 25!), and I fully expect to fall to it one day if nothing else gets me first. I still believe Livestrong! is a yellow turd of a brand sold to attention *****s so they can claim they got it "because they really care".
Hey, if you are going to be a poser, may as well support a good cause. Though I've never heard anyone brag about how they bought a $1 piece of rubber and thought they were making a difference. Literally, not a single person. And I've seen a lot of those bracelets. Most people follow through with some sort of other action. And if they don't? Big deal, it still gets other people thinking about it. Your attitude is a childish one.

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You guys are too distracted by the doping, bike-selling on the Internet, strippers and cocaine. You missed the real scandal:

What we need to know is whether Trek honored the warranty.
Floyd got the frame second hand from USPS. Since he wasn't the original owner, Trek wouldn't honor the warranty.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:30 PM   #65
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Sigh. Should I stop reading "It is not about the bike?" Just got it from the library today. Supposed to be a good book...
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Old 07-02-10, 10:38 PM   #66
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I wonder how you'll feel about Livestrong after cancer devastates your life in some way?
The whole world outside the US manages to cope, somehow. Not trying to knock the benefit that Livestrong brings or the good it does - just pointing out that it isnt the only resource available to cancer victims.

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Sigh. Should I stop reading "It is not about the bike?" Just got it from the library today. Supposed to be a good book...
It's still a good book. I dont particularly like LA, but I do admire his desire to win/competitiveness. And even if he is convicted of doping, that doesnt take away from his accomplishments as a cyclist.

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Old 07-02-10, 10:42 PM   #67
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Chad Gerlach, who rode with the U.S. Postal team before Messrs. Armstrong and Landis were on it, said he's inclined to believe Mr. Landis's account of widespread doping based on what he saw during his own career. "I believe it because I have seen it personally," he said. "I am not ready to out my friends or provide names. I just saw it. It's just a systematic thing." "
When the **** did it become cool or heroic to not rat out cheats? **** you, Gerlach - even if you did not dope, you are still as much a part of the problem as the dopers.

Last edited by unterhausen; 07-03-10 at 11:06 PM. Reason: please don't circumvent the auto-censor
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Old 07-02-10, 10:46 PM   #68
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The truth is the truth. It should be pursued. Always. Else we exist on a foundation of lies. And no good can ever come from that.
It's a pointless truth. Doping in sports doesn't hurt anyone but the person doing it. But the good someone can do for others with fame is a hell of a lot more relevant and important. And if you want to argue the whole fair thing with those that don't want to dope, who cares? Sports is entertainment. It's not life. Bottom line, doping in sports doesn't matter to or affect 99% of the people on this planet. Cancer does.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:48 PM   #69
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The whole world outside the US manages to cope, somehow. Not trying to knock the benefit that Livestrong brings or the good it does - just pointing out that it isnt the only resource available to cancer victims.
+1. Pcad's assumptions that anyone questioning LA and Livestrong obviously has never been devastated by cancer is just wrong. This from someone whose mother died of pancreatic cancer 37 years ago and who just last Saturday attended the funeral of my secretary who succumbed to breast cancer. I happen to feel that Livestrong the foundation can continue to do great things while purported truths about LA the racer can be investigated, and if validated, revealed.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:50 PM   #70
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It's a pointless truth. Doping in sports doesn't hurt anyone but the person doing it. But the good someone can do for others with fame is a hell of a lot more relevant and important. And if you want to argue the whole fair thing with those that don't want to dope, who cares? Sports is entertainment. It's not life. Bottom line, doping in sports doesn't matter to or affect 99% of the people on this planet. Cancer does.
A pointless truth???!! Rubbish.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:51 PM   #71
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random points:

1. the selling of bikes seems to me a credible way of generating undocumented cash (money laundering) in order to facilitate a team directed doping program.

2. livestrong, the lance armstrong foundation and related non-profits have limited disclosure as to who in their corporate structure makes what money.

3. it probably would be easier if the uci stuck to their mandated hematocrit level and just not care how professional cyclists achieve itt.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:55 PM   #72
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Jesus, this whole thing is so ****ed up.

I agree that the truth should be pursued, but if any of this is true, it's going to hurt cycling. Not just pro cycling, but cycling communities all over the world, and that's the sad part.
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Old 07-02-10, 10:56 PM   #73
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A pointless truth???!! Rubbish.
Seriously, tell me how doping matters to the general public. There are much bigger lies to uncover that would have a much bigger positive impact than doping. The fact that our federal government got involved should be a strong indicator of just how unimportant it is.
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Old 07-02-10, 11:06 PM   #74
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Seriously, tell me how doping matters to the general public. There are much bigger lies to uncover that would have a much bigger positive impact than doping. The fact that our federal government got involved should be a strong indicator of just how unimportant it is.
Lets' just agree to disagree. Your statement about the federal government lets me know that our positions are diametrically opposed since I would say that federal investigators involvement speaks to its import. You believe that LA's and his foundations' crusade against cancer trumps other truths about him. I don't. Nuff said.
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Old 07-02-10, 11:23 PM   #75
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Lets' just agree to disagree. Your statement about the federal government lets me know that our positions are diametrically opposed since I would say that federal investigators involvement speaks to its import. You believe that LA's and his foundations' crusade against cancer trumps other truths about him. I don't. Nuff said.


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Lets' just agree to disagree. Your statement about the federal government lets me know that our positions are diametrically opposed since I would say that federal investigators involvement speaks to its import. You believe that LA's and his foundations' crusade against cancer trumps other truths about him. I don't. Nuff said.
No, I believe that pursuing the truth will do more harm than good in this case. I believe that the truth should not always be sought. I believe a world of pure truth would be a cold place to live. "Honey, do these pants make my ass look big?"

But yeah, I'm good with being done widdit.
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