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Floyd: US Postal sold bikes to pay for doping - WSJ story

Old 07-03-10, 06:30 AM
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Come on, we all know they sold the bikes to raise money for cancer.
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Old 07-03-10, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by learnmedia
So you believe he lied then when he said he wasn't doping AND that he's lying now when he says he did dope?
Well, he does still claim that he didn't dope to win the TDF.
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Old 07-03-10, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by learnmedia
So you believe he lied then when he said he wasn't doping AND that he's lying now when he says he did dope?
Not sure if I want to jump in with all of this, but that's not exactly what he said. He said he wasn't doping, then he said he was doping, and oh, by the way, so was everyone else. I think I'd be more inclined to believe him if he started with a simple "I doped". However, the way he admitted to doping, including the timing, indicates to me that this is not a "clearing of his conscious" but something a lot more. I think it was designed to bring him back into the spotlight which he so clearly loves. I'm not saying others didn't dope and I'm certainly not a Lance fan, but I'm very suspicious of all of his accusations against others. He's obviously willing to lie to get what he wants. I just don't think he wants to clear his conscious.
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Old 07-03-10, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo
Well, he does still claim that he didn't dope to win the TDF.
Not true.
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Old 07-03-10, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by learnmedia
Not true.
How so? He said he doped leading up to the TDF, but not during.

Mr. Landis said he had taken testosterone while training for the Tour. But, as he told officials for his Phonak team, he hadn't done so during the race.
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Old 07-03-10, 07:00 AM
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You are all being very persuasive in your arguments but when it comes down to it you are clearly demonstrating the pressure Floyd was under in the first place to admit NOTHING.

If you really care about curing cancer see this guy, https://www.cancerisafungus.com/ He's been successfully treating cancer for several years but no one cares. This cure can't be patented. Its simply sodium bicarbonate. Serious.

Anthony
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Old 07-03-10, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by hurley.girl
Not sure if I want to jump in with all of this, but that's not exactly what he said. He said he wasn't doping, then he said he was doping, and oh, by the way, so was everyone else. I think I'd be more inclined to believe him if he started with a simple "I doped". However, the way he admitted to doping, including the timing, indicates to me that this is not a "clearing of his conscious" but something a lot more. I think it was designed to bring him back into the spotlight which he so clearly loves. I'm not saying others didn't dope and I'm certainly not a Lance fan, but I'm very suspicious of all of his accusations against others. He's obviously willing to lie to get what he wants. I just don't think he wants to clear his conscious.
I dont pretend to know what his motives are. It could be the most base of human emotions--pure get back and revenge. Or something more. However, my take is after years of lying about doping, he said "I doped... and here's how." BTW, his first response--denial--isn't uncommon. Not in cycling, track and field (Marion Jones?), nor baseball.
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Old 07-03-10, 07:07 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG
If you really care about curing cancer see this guy, https://www.cancerisafungus.com/ He's been successfully treating cancer for several years but no one cares. This cure can't be patented. Its simply sodium bicarbonate. Serious.
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Old 07-03-10, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by hurley.girl
Not sure if I want to jump in with all of this, but that's not exactly what he said. He said he wasn't doping, then he said he was doping, and oh, by the way, so was everyone else. I think I'd be more inclined to believe him if he started with a simple "I doped". However, the way he admitted to doping, including the timing, indicates to me that this is not a "clearing of his conscious" but something a lot more. I think it was designed to bring him back into the spotlight which he so clearly loves. I'm not saying others didn't dope and I'm certainly not a Lance fan, but I'm very suspicious of all of his accusations against others. He's obviously willing to lie to get what he wants. I just don't think he wants to clear his conscious.
I'm with Hurley-girl on this. Floyd is lashing out and seeking to injure cycling for not letting him into the TOC. That must have cost him a lot of money. That is the context of his lashing out. If he had just decided to come clean, on his own, I would agree with many of the other posts in this thread and suggest to get at the truth. Landis appears to be having a tantrum and is willing to try anything, first at the TOC now at the start of the TDF. It is clearly destructive behavior on his part that is designed to be as destructive as possible. Just cause the WSJ prints it doesn't mean it is true.

Remember: Landis lied about his doping for years. Took about a million dollars for his "legal defense fund" from donations. Wrote a book professing his innocence. Landis will have to have some solid evidence and lots of other witnesses / participants come forward before I believe one word of his BS. The only thing that is clear now is that Landis is a liar, an angry vengeful liar.
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Old 07-03-10, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Oh yes he could.

Here's a guy that spent every dime he had, had a relative commit suicide, and had his wife divorce him due to a lie. And now he's telling the truth?

Got it.

Of course saying floyd's father in law committed suicide because floyd doped has as much basis in reality as saying LA got testicular cancer because of the PEDs he was using. I don't know that and neither do you.
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Old 07-03-10, 08:22 AM
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But what if Landis is lying when he said he was lying about when he lied about lying?
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Old 07-03-10, 08:53 AM
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I want to believe that LA is clean. Of course, I want to believe in the innate goodness of the human race, but...

As far as Floyd, if he told me that the sun would rise tomorrow, I'd wait to see it for myself and when it did, I'd say it was a coincidence. He's a liar, and as such you can't tell when he's not lying. IIRC, as recently as March he was still raising money for the Floyd "Fairness" Fund while at the same time he was supposedly talking with the WSG and federal investigators. Wait...maybe he's a double agent?!?

As far as the impact of this investigation on the LAF, if LA is found to have been guilty of doping then it will destroy the LAF. LA will have NO credibility, and will be treated just as Floyd was/is...with reason. All those corporate sponsors will abandon him and the politicians will avoid him. Again, with reason..he'll have been proved to be a liar.

Is all this any good for cycling? I don't know. Most of us get enough grief from the average motorist that they don't need any additional reasons to have disdain for our sport. On the other hand, kids still play baseball even after all the doping in that sport (but then again, IT is BASEBALL).

Will cycling ever be clean? Probably not. As long as the reward outweighs the risk, someone will be willing to do whatever it takes to win. As I wrote at the start of this post, I want to believe in the innate goodness of the human race, but...

Charles
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Old 07-03-10, 08:57 AM
  #113  
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Doping in professional cycling? I'm shocked!
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Old 07-03-10, 09:50 AM
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I notice you don't address the part where I have lost loved ones to cancer, despite your assumption to the contrary. In fact, I just found out that my Saturday morning swim coach will be out for a while due to uterine cancer. Moving on...

Originally Posted by patentcad
What you believe seems rather trivial compared to the millions who derive support and inspiration from Livestrong.
So, I'm not entitled to my opinion on this, even though my life has been hit by cancer? And neither, I suppose, is anyone else who happens to disagree with you? Nothing is above criticism (including me, before anyone claims I'm implying otherwise).

Originally Posted by patentcad
Get over yourself.
Right back at you. Your emotional needs are not above the law. Vick and Roethlisberger could cure cancer together tomorrow and I'd still say they're both sub-human.

Originally Posted by patentcad
Correct. It is quite arguable however that the important contribution of Livestrong is psychological for the people who believe in the message. If they blow the cover off any Armstrong doping from a decade ago, kiss that goodbye.
If you want empty psychological comfort, go to church, and have the decency to be honest about what you're trying to sell me instead of talking endlessly about "The Cure" before bait-and-switching with emotional needs.

Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Well said. Very well said.
It really, really wasn't. It was empty platitudes and emotional appeal devoid of any substance.
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Old 07-03-10, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Accordion
I mean, who hasn't traded a bike for dope at some point in their life.
I never even thought of this. I have a 1991 Specialized Allez and a 1988 Nishiki International that just came on the market.

I could probably buy back loads of my own blood for these but I'll take EPO in trade.
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Old 07-03-10, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by vkalia
When the **** did it become cool or heroic to not rat out cheats? **** you, Gerlach - even if you did not dope, you are still as much a part of the problem as the dopers.
Chad Gerlach got kicked off the team for having a non-existant fuse to his temper. Then he spent 5 years homeless and a crack addict. He seems to be trying to clean up now, but I'm having trouble with his credibility.

Here is a short blurb about his episode on A&E's Intervention

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Old 07-03-10, 10:36 AM
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Gotta run and did not have time to read through this thread. It's simple: people who hate Lance and want to believe he is guilty of doping will believe anything Landis says. People who think Lance is innocent will call Floyd as a liar. I don't know if Lance or any of the guys Landis accuses of cheating are actually guilty but I know one thing. I do not believe anything that comes out of Landis' mouth. Period. This guy is a complete D-bag liar and needs to go away and stay away.

I believed Landis when he professed his innocense and I was wrong. Why should anyone believe him now?
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Old 07-03-10, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by enjoi07
isn't it one of the largest financial contributors to cancer research and assistance?



have fun defining cheating. altitude chambers? how bout multi vitamins? those could be considered performance enhancing. how about regulating sleeping and eating habits as well.
Stop being pedantic. Cheating almost always involves something that's illegal even outside of sports, hazardous to your health, or banned from the sport for the purpose of a level playing field.
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Old 07-03-10, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo
This stuff kills people.
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Old 07-03-10, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by WHOOOSSHHH...
If Livestrong goes down, that will hurt allot of people who are bolstered by this organization. You think for one minute, Landis cares about them...No...but as they say, "misery loves company"...

Interesting logic. Dont uncover the lie because others will suffer for it? So because LAF does good, LA should get a free shot at breaking whatever rules and laws he wants? Well he might as well put an electric motor in his seat tube.

Yes, If Floyd Landis IS telling the truth it has the potential to hurt a lot of people who dont deserve the betrayal. The entire Livestrong mojo is based on faith, that the human spirit and will is strong enough to endure, that there is life after cancer. LA did it I can too, attitude. And it is a great message. However, you can build faith on a lie. LA has denied using controled, PE substances. If the truth is other than what he stated then he is the liar. He built his foundation upon the strength of his reputation and his achivments as a 7 time Tour De France champion. But, how many people would subscribe to that belief if it was the doping that caused his cancer? If Floyd is telling the truth the blame for the hurt should not fall on his shoulders, but on the person who is telling the lie and has proffited from it. As in dont shoot the messenger. Should we overlook the guilt of the perpetrator because the deception is so distasteful, so unpalatable that we can not accept that some one would stoop to such a level.
Do these pants make my butt look big?
No honey you look fantastic!
She already know she has a big ass, she wants you to lie to her so she can continue to lie to herself. Next week when she goes shopping for some new slacks and cant get into a size 12 the stuff will hit the fan. Does the lie really help or do any good? no, it just makes your life easyer, you dont have to be the Floyd and slap her in the face with reality.

If LAF is built on a lie then it should die, because the potential for the greater harm it will cause is far worse than any good it can bring.
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Old 07-03-10, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Correct. It is quite arguable however that the important contribution of Livestrong is psychological for the people who believe in the message. If they blow the cover off any Armstrong doping from a decade ago, kiss that goodbye.
+1 I personally know a few cancer survivors that have looked to Lance and his foundation as a source of inspiration. While I do indeed think that he doped or used performance enhancing drugs of some sort, I do not want him to be taken down so that people can still have that motivation. The sooner that he leaves the sport of cycling the better in my opinion.
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Old 07-03-10, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tulex
It's a pointless truth. Doping in sports doesn't hurt anyone but the person doing it. But the good someone can do for others with fame is a hell of a lot more relevant and important. And if you want to argue the whole fair thing with those that don't want to dope, who cares? Sports is entertainment. It's not life. Bottom line, doping in sports doesn't matter to or affect 99% of the people on this planet. Cancer does.
Doping in sports hurts ALL of us. The entire point of any competition is to find who the best is. Would it be ok if I showed up and took a cab to the finish, got out got on my bike and crossed the finish line? Then when the press figure it out I can say well, sure but I do a lot of work with the homeless so it all balances out?
The end justifies the means. So as long as I win and do some good with the fame I get from winning its all good?
Cheating is cheating weather its in sports, buisness or monopoly. Its never going to be ok. You want to be able to justify it because he did some good with the spoils. How do you know the person who should have won would not have done greater things?
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Old 07-03-10, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Hunt-man
I'm with Hurley-girl on this. Floyd is lashing out and seeking to injure cycling for not letting him into the TOC. That must have cost him a lot of money. That is the context of his lashing out. If he had just decided to come clean, on his own, I would agree with many of the other posts in this thread and suggest to get at the truth. Landis appears to be having a tantrum and is willing to try anything, first at the TOC now at the start of the TDF. It is clearly destructive behavior on his part that is designed to be as destructive as possible. Just cause the WSJ prints it doesn't mean it is true.

Remember: Landis lied about his doping for years. Took about a million dollars for his "legal defense fund" from donations. Wrote a book professing his innocence. Landis will have to have some solid evidence and lots of other witnesses / participants come forward before I believe one word of his BS. The only thing that is clear now is that Landis is a liar, an angry vengeful liar.
I couldn't agree more. And I too believed Landis, or rather, gave him the benefit of the doubt bec there were troubling things about the French lab. Anyway, the way Landis has gone about this (big announcement before Tour of California and then big announcement before Tour de France) says to me he is trying to do as much damage as possible to cycling and Lance in particular. He's a brat throwing a tantrum bec no one would hire him. He is completely untrustworthy, and what is sad is that he can throw in the names of anybody he wants (including Lim who is a huge clean cycling advocate) and automatically cast suspicion on people.

By the way, I'm so happy to find a forum where people are talking logically and reasonably, regardless of which side you fall on this. I was on another forum on a prologue thread when half a dozen people went off about lance doping and how the versus commentators are "sucking lance's teats" bec they questioned landis' credibility. when i responded pretty much with what was written above by hurley girl (seriously, nothing rude or crazy) i was jumped on for being off-topic and told to take lance and his doping elsewhere. i was really shocked and saddened, not just by that, but by the viciousness of most of the posters. i'm a huge lance fan. he's made the tours really exciting for many years. i'm not saying that maybe at some point he didn't dope (esp long ago when that was really so much the culture and lots if not most were doing it), but i also believe that his countless clean blood tests count for something. many people have tested positive and paid for it, but lance has never had a bad test. it's perplexing to me why some people will ignore all those tests and feel they need to denigrate anyone who feels they count for something.
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Old 07-03-10, 11:20 AM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by baribari
There should be no cheating in sports. The end.
Newsflash: the instant you start paying guys to do it, it's more business than sport. And the bigger the money gets, the more that applies. Get a grip, they're paying the big stars of cycling millions of dollars to do this. And they're trying to get an edge? Oh, there's a shock.
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Old 07-03-10, 11:22 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by ls01
Doping in sports hurts ALL of us. The entire point of any competition is to find who the best is. Would it be ok if I showed up and took a cab to the finish, got out got on my bike and crossed the finish line? Then when the press figure it out I can say well, sure but I do a lot of work with the homeless so it all balances out?
The end justifies the means. So as long as I win and do some good with the fame I get from winning its all good?
Cheating is cheating weather its in sports, buisness or monopoly. Its never going to be ok. You want to be able to justify it because he did some good with the spoils. How do you know the person who should have won would not have done greater things?
The idea that sports matters is hilarious. It's entertainment. It doesn't change lives for the better any more than it hurts lives.

And we are not talking about ignoring a current wrong for the good it does. We are talking about proving a past wrong that would hurt a present good.

Is it worth hurting people that didn't wrong just so that a person that did can pay?
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