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    Confused

    I am reading the forums here and on Cyclingnews and I am very confused about all the Lance Armstrong hate. Can someone please enlighten me?

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    Red light runner Gonzlobo's Avatar
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    Heavy is the head that wears/wore the crown.

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    Senior Member gear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alphalegacy View Post
    I am reading the forums here and on Cyclingnews and I am very confused about all the Lance Armstrong hate. Can someone please enlighten me?
    Well first of all its sports and if you come to Boston you'll hear a lot of A-Rod hate talk, it's just the way it is, you like one team or player and hate the competition.

    Secondly, despite the fact that pro cycling has become somewhat specialized with (sprinters, climbers, classics) specialists. Lance is the first to specialize in basically one race the TdF. Try to imagine the Giants specializing in the Super Bowl. That could draw some criticism.

    Third some people are convinced he cheated.

    Fourth some people just like to hate.

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    I was a fan until Lance/JB behaved so very badly with respect to Alberto last year...

    I lost all respect at that point for both men.

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    Senior Member collegeskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gear View Post
    Well first of all its sports and if you come to Boston you'll hear a lot of A-Rod hate talk, it's just the way it is, you like one team or player and hate the competition.

    Secondly, despite the fact that pro cycling has become somewhat specialized with (sprinters, climbers, classics) specialists. Lance is the first to specialize in basically one race the TdF. Try to imagine the Giants specializing in the Super Bowl. That could draw some criticism.

    Third some people are convinced he cheated.

    Fourth some people just like to hate.
    I believe the Giants do try to specialize in the Super Bowl, as do all football teams. I think a better example might be if Dale Jr. tried to specialize in winning the Daytona 500, but again that happens. You have to pick what you have the best chance of winning and what has the biggest pay off.

    That said people don't like winners, people love losers especially when then win, ie Butler in the NCAA basketball tournment. (Not that Butler are losers but they were not expected to compete like they did.)

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    convert TommyL's Avatar
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    Everybody loves an underdog. People loved Contador when he won his first Tour. His popularity will drop over time. If Andy started winning the Tour over the next few years, there'd be more hate on him too.

    There are some legitimate reasons for disliking Lance, and legitimate reasons for liking him. Internet forums tend to draw the extremists.

    Next time you read a post that seems pretty extreme with the hate, an interesting thing to look at is the history of the user who posted it. Oftentimes you'll find that these people ONLY come to bikeforums to write about how much they hate Lance. Regardless of how you feel about Lance, it is pretty ridiculous to spend your free time repeatedly complaining about him.

    Hmm... maybe I should look back over my own history before I post this... TOO LATE!

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    Senior Member gear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegeskier View Post
    I believe the Giants do try to specialize in the Super Bowl, as do all football teams.
    I believe the Giants currently play to have a winning record in the regular season (and entertain their fans in the process) then try to progress in the playoffs by winning all their playoff games. My analogy was a scenario in which they just play one game, the Super Bowl. Now that would be specializing in one game. Most football fans would resent this if it could take place. It can't in football but it can transpire in pro cycling, Lance basically did this for a few years and I have met cycling fans who resented it.

    The OP was asking for reasons why cycling fans seem to hate Lance and this "specializing" thing tends to be popular with people who don't follow pro cycling very closely but not so much with people who do. Just one of a number of possible reasons he would be disliked.

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    Senior Member Sea Green Sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romans8:28 View Post
    I was a fan until Lance/JB behaved so very badly with respect to Alberto last year...

    I lost all respect at that point for both men.
    Exactly this. He's proved himself to be a deeply megalomaniacal a-hole.

    That and the number of times in the last two years that I've heard him say "I've won seven tours". Yeah, we know ya weenie.
    Last edited by Siu Blue Wind; 08-08-10 at 12:43 AM. Reason: inappropriate usage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romans8:28 View Post
    I was a fan until Lance/JB behaved so very badly with respect to Alberto last year...
    I lost all respect at that point for both men.
    I gained respect for LA & JB for their tactical ability which AC is still developing.

    OP, the reason for the hate is as Gonzlobo said, people want to tear down the king and misery loves company. It's just human nature.
    Last edited by kleinboogie; 08-08-10 at 12:43 AM.

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    Figure out why people hate Lance and you'll have figured out a lot about people in general.

    If you understand people in general, then you'll understand why some people hate Lance.

    There are some good starting points already posted above to get you started.
    5 out of 5 people think the other 4 are idiots. - me
    The only thing more incorrect than politically incorrect is politically correct. - me
    If 3 were 5, you'd be a 10. - me (or: If 3 were 5, you'd be in mensa.)
    Sarcasm truly is wasted on the simple. - me
    How small does your __ have to be to drive like that? - me
    It's not how fast you get old... it's how fast you get irrelevant.. - me
    The plural of anecdote is not data. - grolby

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    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    More people just want the truth. Like the poster who questions why more people can't love. Can't we just all get along?! Kum-bah ya! Kum-ba-ya!
    Last edited by bellweatherman; 08-08-10 at 07:35 AM.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

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    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    The reason why people, some not all, hate Armstrong is because he is a pure hater himself. He hates Floyd Landis, Greg Lemond, Kathy Lemond, Emma O'Reilly, Stephen Swart, Tyler Hamilton, Marty Jemison, Frankie Andreu, Betsy Andreu, Jonathon Vaughters, etc.

    The reason why people love Armstrong is because he is an American who won the Tour de France and beat the evil dopers. And he puffed out his own chest and said that he is better than cancer.

    The reason why people hate Armstrong is because he is disrespectful, arrogant, cocky. The reason why people love Armstrong is because he is confident, brash, and hates French people.

    Overall, he's just an arrogant, confident, sort of guy who won/cheated his way to the Tour de France.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

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    How do we hate thee, Lance? Let me count the ways...

    1. Like the previous posters said, people like to tear down those who always win.

    2. He traded in his wife for a younger model, then traded in that younger model for an even younger one. So far he's fathered 5 kids by 3 different women.

    3. Last year he came into a team which had an already-established leader (Contador) and did everything in his power to sabotage him. For example, he commandeered all of the team cars before the final TT, leaving Contador to get a ride to the starting area from his brother. His arrival at Astana last year created a lot of tension.

    4. His arrogant attitude. He constantly reminds people that he won the Tour 7 times. Also, in relation to #3, he expected his teammates on Astana to work for him instead of Contador. Also, when he knew that he was out of the race in this year's Tour, did he say, "I'm out of it now, I'll do my best to help Levi get on the podium?" No, he talked about getting a stage win for himself. The last day of this year's Tour didn't help his cause with the unauthorized jersey incident.

    5. From what I've read in different sources, he was a real b***ard toward his domestiques.

    I used to like Lance up until last year. I thought it was great that an American was beating the French in their race. But with all of the nonsense that he pulled when he was with Astana last year, I lost any respect that I had for him.

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    A lot of people think he cheated. Ok, but that really wouldn't get people so fired up.

    But if he did cheat, then he not only lied, he made an absolute mockery of the very idea of truth. Landis-style constant denial is one thing, but Lance has played on emotions and portrayed believing in him as being the noble thing, while not believing him is for small-minded people who are only motivated by jealously and hatred. Classic example is his speech from the Tour podium about how he feels sorry for people who can't believe in greatness, as in people who think he doped. He points to himself and especially the two guys standing next to him as examples of how there is greatness in the world and wouldn't the world just be a better place if people believed him. Both of those guys standing next to him would shortly get busted for cheating. See, I believe he knew that they were cheating and he cynically stood there and said he felt sorry for people too small-minded to accept greatness, and that makes me angry.

    If he's cheated he's done huge damage, not just to the credibility of the sport, but to credibility in general. He's asked me to believe in him because doing otherwise is weak and unamerican. Implicit or explicit in his denial campaign have been a host of concepts I find particularly dispicable and at the heart of what is wrong with this country and a lot of the world:

    The truth is nothing more than whatever you can prove in a court of law.

    You should believe something based solely on emotion.

    You should believe something based solely on appeal to charisma.

    When someone disagrees with you it is sufficient to attack their motives.

    Every issue is bifurcated into two groups: those who agree with you 100% and are reasonable, moral, honest, and intelligent, and those who agree with you 99% or less, aka the enemy, who have none of those attributes.

    I could go on but this is going off-topic. This may give you an idea of how for some people this issue transends just some guy who won some races and may or may not have cheated.

    Other good points is the people whose lives he's ruined in order to maintain his image, people who just don't like his personality, and people who merely don't like winners.

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romans8:28 View Post
    I was a fan until Lance/JB behaved so very badly with respect to Alberto last year...

    I lost all respect at that point for both men.
    A similar point for me was the time when Lance had an issue with a musette bag. Ulrich sat up and his thanks were ALnce questioning if he waited and also passing those who waited at speed instead of rejoining the group and letting others know he was there.

    To the OP. One other thing that can be confusing is that there are quite a few out there who do not hate Lance, but do hate Lance fanboys and the Lance is God attitude. I tend to put myself in that category and often realize I have posted something that makes it seem I have Lance (Or if yuo want to count my dislike for some things as hate, then make it seem I hate him more than I really do) when my posts were really not aimed at him, but his blind 99er fanboys. On that I go a ways back, I remember his fanboys saying he was the greatest ever in 2002. That is speaking as if he had acheived more than any other rider, NOT saying he had the potential or that he was apt to be the greatest. It was talking as if it was already achieved. (On that I maintain he never broke the top 3).

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    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spezi3 View Post
    Last year he came into a team which had an already-established leader (Contador) and did everything in his power to sabotage him. For example, he commandeered all of the team cars before the final TT, leaving Contador to get a ride to the starting area from his brother. His arrival at Astana last year created a lot of tension.
    This was one of the most despicable things that I've seen a true gentleman do. Remember how he said on joining Astana that Contador is the leader blah blah blah. Well, he lied. And Johan Bruyneel was a d**k too. I read how LA turned the whole of Astana and even the staff against Contador. Contador won the Tour last year on his own. There was absolutely no team support. For this simple fact, I have a lot of admiration and respect for AC.

    I have also read quotations from people in the sport that I respect very much that he is not a very nice person. That is fine, as I really have not had any personal contact with him, so I can't go on that. But i think the sh*8 is gonna hit the fan real soon. Then it's gonna be that all his former teammates who confirm the doping stories are gonna be called LA haters.

    Let us wait a while, the truth always prevail.

    I just don't like being taken for a "ride" and taken for a sucker.
    Regards,

    Jed

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    Yeah, LA can be arrogant and self-centered. That doesn't qualify him for RICO. And yes, sometimes his fans go over the top with their praise. Hey, he's an American champion. Does anyone think that AC's Spanish fans are any different?

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FogVilleLad View Post
    Yeah, LA can be arrogant and self-centered. That doesn't qualify him for RICO. And yes, sometimes his fans go over the top with their praise. Hey, he's an American champion. Does anyone think that AC's Spanish fans are any different?
    Perhaps, but his history of witness intimidation does and is exactly what RICO was designed for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Staarkhand View Post
    A lot of people think he cheated. Ok, but that really wouldn't get people so fired up.

    But if he did cheat, then he not only lied, he made an absolute mockery of the very idea of truth. Landis-style constant denial is one thing, but Lance has played on emotions and portrayed believing in him as being the noble thing, while not believing him is for small-minded people who are only motivated by jealously and hatred. Classic example is his speech from the Tour podium about how he feels sorry for people who can't believe in greatness, as in people who think he doped. He points to himself and especially the two guys standing next to him as examples of how there is greatness in the world and wouldn't the world just be a better place if people believed him. Both of those guys standing next to him would shortly get busted for cheating. See, I believe he knew that they were cheating and he cynically stood there and said he felt sorry for people too small-minded to accept greatness, and that makes me angry.

    If he's cheated he's done huge damage, not just to the credibility of the sport, but to credibility in general. He's asked me to believe in him because doing otherwise is weak and unamerican. Implicit or explicit in his denial campaign have been a host of concepts I find particularly dispicable and at the heart of what is wrong with this country and a lot of the world:

    The truth is nothing more than whatever you can prove in a court of law.

    You should believe something based solely on emotion.

    You should believe something based solely on appeal to charisma.

    When someone disagrees with you it is sufficient to attack their motives.

    Every issue is bifurcated into two groups: those who agree with you 100% and are reasonable, moral, honest, and intelligent, and those who agree with you 99% or less, aka the enemy, who have none of those attributes.

    I could go on but this is going off-topic. This may give you an idea of how for some people this issue transends just some guy who won some races and may or may not have cheated.

    Other good points is the people whose lives he's ruined in order to maintain his image, people who just don't like his personality, and people who merely don't like winners.
    This is the best explanation of reasons to not like Armstrong that I have read. Let me add one thing. For some of us Lance was a one time hero. But as we got more and more into cycling we also learned a lot about the inside of cycling and the inside of Lance. And it's not a pretty picture from many angles. A few too many for me.

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    Member Chapeau!'s Avatar
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    Because people who didn't make anything of there lives, like to hate on people that did.

    You know when you have made it, its when you start attracting hate comments from nobodies. Go Lance.

    Laugh it off.
    Last edited by Chapeau!; 08-12-10 at 08:29 PM.

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