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  1. #1
    Senior Member Roadierookie's Avatar
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    Why is Floyd not being charged with fraud?

    Now that we know for sure that Landis was a cheat, why is he not being charged for fraud. He raised money for his defense from supporters who believed he was innocent and now that he has come clean, has he not committed fraud to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars? Has he struck a deal with someone?

  2. #2
    Senior Member TomT74's Avatar
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    He's turning State's evidence perhaps. That could get him immunity
    Ride Bike.

  3. #3
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomT74 View Post
    He's turning State's evidence perhaps. That could get him immunity
    Plus I believe he is still saying that he didn't dope when he won the tour.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadierookie View Post
    Now that we know for sure that Landis was a cheat, why is he not being charged for fraud. He raised money for his defense from supporters who believed he was innocent and now that he has come clean, has he not committed fraud to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars? Has he struck a deal with someone?
    At some point, you're really going to have to become acquainted with the facts. You might start with what Landis did and did not admit to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    At some point, you're really going to have to become acquainted with the facts. You might start with what Landis did and did not admit to.
    Well said.

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    Senior Member Roadierookie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    At some point, you're really going to have to become acquainted with the facts. You might start with what Landis did and did not admit to.
    OK, please inform me what he did and did not admit to then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadierookie View Post
    OK, please inform me what he did and did not admit to then.
    Floyd has admitted to using systematic doping of various substances during his career but in the case of the 2006 TDF he says that he was only using HGH. The positive test found him out of balance in his testosterone/epitesterone. The media is still falsly reporting that he had high testosterone but the reality was that his epitesterone was lower than normal. Which can indicate doping. Since he knew that he hadn't been using testosterone in that time period he knew that something was wrong with the testing so he believed that he could justifiably challenge the test. After all, they had been getting by the drug test for years and they knew that they were not infallible.

    Now I think that there is some grounds to disbelieve this. But there is also some grounds to believe it. And there were a lot of flaws found in the testing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roadierookie View Post
    OK, please inform me what he did and did not admit to then.
    Who started this thread? Listen first, speak second; not the other way around.

  9. #9
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Landis is not being charged with fraud because it was Armstrong who committed the fraud, tampering, theft of governmental funds during their time on US Postal Team. Plus, as much as it's going to cause a lot of buttocks hurt amongst the Armstrong supporters, Landis has more credibility than Armstrong. Yes, a past liar and cheat having more credibility than a current liar and cheat.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

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    Yeah, Landis has stuck to certain denials. Cynically you can say just to avoid perjury charges.

    Landis defrauded fans while in the role of some random guy. Lance defrauded the US government while arguably being part of a team ownership. I'm not a lawyer or familiar enough with the details to know if there's a case against Landis or not, but that is the primary difference.

  11. #11
    Senior Member collegeskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Landis is not being charged with fraud because it was Armstrong who committed the fraud, tampering, theft of governmental funds during their time on US Postal Team. Plus, as much as it's going to cause a lot of buttocks hurt amongst the Armstrong supporters, Landis has more credibility than Armstrong. Yes, a past liar and cheat having more credibility than a current liar and cheat.
    Couple of things,
    1) I think they are saying Landis defrauded the public into giving to his defense fund and buying a non-fiction book that was of course fiction.
    2) That has nothing to do with Lance.
    3) I think even for you, to say that Lance stole government funds is a little over the top. Even if I conceded that he defrauded the government, which I don't doped to the gills or clean as a whistle, they got what they paid for and more. Fraud and theft are not the same.
    4) Just to show I am no Lance Fanboy, he is guilty of intimidation through sport.

  12. #12
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    It has a lot to do with Armstrong. The accusations, based on the Nightline interview speak of Armstrong. There are sections of the book, where Floyd alluded to doping. However, nobody has been charged yet. Not even Armstrong, though there are rumblings that other former teammates and employees/associates are speaking to investigators. Where there is smoke, there is fire.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Landis is not being charged with fraud because it was Armstrong who committed the fraud, tampering, theft of governmental funds during their time on US Postal Team. Plus, as much as it's going to cause a lot of buttocks hurt amongst the Armstrong supporters, Landis has more credibility than Armstrong. Yes, a past liar and cheat having more credibility than a current liar and cheat.
    I get you hate Armstrong, but the point that Landis has more credibility is pure falsehood. Has lance looked guilty? plenty of times. Is he guilty? No one knows right now. But what we do know is that Landis has lied over and over again, and there are enough holes inthe current story that its entirely possible he's lying again.

    You want so badly to believe Lance is guilty, that you'll take the word of a known liar whose story doesnt totally add up based on the straight up indisputable facts (specifically around the Tour de Suisse).

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    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    You don't kill the goose that is laying the golden eggs.

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    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechKnowGN View Post
    I get you hate Armstrong, but the point that Landis has more credibility is pure falsehood. Has lance looked guilty? plenty of times. Is he guilty? No one knows right now. But what we do know is that Landis has lied over and over again, and there are enough holes inthe current story that its entirely possible he's lying again.

    You want so badly to believe Lance is guilty, that you'll take the word of a known liar whose story doesnt totally add up based on the straight up indisputable facts (specifically around the Tour de Suisse).



    I get the you idolize Armstrong, but saying that Armstrong has any shred of credibility after he has shown multiple times to lie, backstab, and ruin people's careers is just on the level of mancrush idolatry. The difference between Landis and Armstrong is that one is a past liar, the other is a current continual liar. There are already reports of other pro cyclists that have confirmed what Landis has said about Armstrong's doping.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  16. #16
    Senior Member telebianchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    I get the you idolize Armstrong, but saying that Armstrong has any shred of credibility after he has shown multiple times to lie, backstab, and ruin people's careers is just on the level of mancrush idolatry. The difference between Landis and Armstrong is that one is a past liar, the other is a current continual liar. There are already reports of other pro cyclists that have confirmed what Landis has said about Armstrong's doping.
    So do you think that Landis cheated during the 2006 TdF? Or do you think that he got screwed by failures in the testing process and that Landis should still be the rightful winner? If you agree with the former, then you must also believe that Landis is a current continual liar.
    May your tires or beer never be flat.

  17. #17
    Troublemaker Berg417448's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    I get the you idolize Armstrong, but saying that Armstrong has any shred of credibility after he has shown multiple times to lie, backstab, and ruin people's careers is just on the level of mancrush idolatry. The difference between Landis and Armstrong is that one is a past liar, the other is a current continual liar. There are already reports of other pro cyclists that have confirmed what Landis has said about Armstrong's doping.

    Landis is still lying about his Tour positive so that makes them both "continual" liars.

  18. #18
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Floyd is a flip-flopping habitual liar by his own admission. Pretty much anything he says from now on is a lie until proven otherwise. It's how you handle those kind of people. So far, he hasn't proven anything other than his ability to take money from his friends, family and supporters and mislead the world at large. I regret few things in this world, supporting him is one of them. He's sad.

  19. #19
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by telebianchi View Post
    So do you think that Landis cheated during the 2006 TdF? Or do you think that he got screwed by failures in the testing process and that Landis should still be the rightful winner? If you agree with the former, then you must also believe that Landis is a current continual liar.

    So, you are saying that once someone lies about anything, then whatever they say henceforth is also a lie. Correct?
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  20. #20
    Senior Member telebianchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    So, you are saying that once someone lies about anything, then whatever they say henceforth is also a lie. Correct?
    No, not at all. I am sure that someone who has admitted to lies in the past can and does still tell the truth. Their previous lies, however, do hurt their current credibility.

    Your earlier post said: "The difference between Landis and Armstrong is that one is a past liar, the other is a current continual liar." I'm just saying that it appears that Landis is still a continual liar based on his denial of cheating in the 2006 TdF. Therefore, there is no difference on this point unless you think that Landis is telling the truth about his TdF victory.

    At the same time, if LA is, according to you, a current and continual liar, does that mean that LA is incapable of telling the truth? Maybe I misunderstood your posts, but it seems like you are using different standards to judge Landis and LA on this idea of "current continual lying".

    Regardless, Armstrong has nothing to do with whether or not Floyd should be sued for or charged with fraud for taking money for his legal defense fund. In response to the OPs original question, if someone who donated large amounts of money to the defense fund wanted to sue Landis for defrauding them they could take him into civil court, maybe get all the people who gave $1, $5 or$10 and turn it into a class action suit. But nobody is claiming that Floyd defrauded the US Government and therefore the Feds are not interested in pursuing a case against him.
    May your tires or beer never be flat.

  21. #21
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    So, you are saying that once someone lies about anything, then whatever they say henceforth is also a lie. Correct?
    Once a liar, always a liar. That's what he IS, doesn't matter what he DOES.

    Boy who cried wolf.
    Last edited by colombo357; 08-15-10 at 01:34 PM.
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  22. #22
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    I am waiting for someone who donated money to his fund to file a civil suit. It's an open and shut case.

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