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View Poll Results: How to clean up cycling

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  • Status Quo

    1 3.45%
  • Live in chaperones

    0 0%
  • It's Hopeless

    4 13.79%
  • Let them dope.

    6 20.69%
  • Improved Biological Passport

    15 51.72%
  • More testing (more often)

    13 44.83%
  • Other

    4 13.79%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Senior Member collegeskier's Avatar
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    Fixing Cycling Poll

    So there is a lot of talk about who is doping and how much. I was curious if people have opinions about the current state of doping and what can be done to clean up cycling

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sea Green Sky's Avatar
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    I voted for "Improved Biological Passport" and "More testing (more often)". I also want to see very visible and public drug testing in hockey, basketball, NASCAR (that should be interesting) and the PGA Tour.

  3. #3
    Senior Member collegeskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Green Sky View Post
    I voted for "Improved Biological Passport" and "More testing (more often)". I also want to see very visible and public drug testing in hockey, basketball, NASCAR (that should be interesting) and the PGA Tour.
    NASCAR might be interesting. I think that cheating is pretty rampant in auto-racing. I don't know about PEDs but it seems like someone always getting penalized for something illegal with their car.

    I always think it is interesting when sports give the, its not a problem so we don't test answer. Seems like if you don't test you don't know if it is a problem, which is just fine with most of them.

  4. #4
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    Stiffer penalties.
    -------

    Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.

  5. #5
    Senior Member gear's Avatar
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    They should always be trying to improve testing. Couple this with a lifetime ban and you will cut down on a lot of cheating.

  6. #6
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    I favor an automatic 4 year ban for the first offence. Lesser times for proof of accidental doping. After 4 year ban you have an additional 2 year ban from the pro tour. So six years banned from the pro tour. Must ride 2 years clean in Continental tour or national tours before riding for pro tour again. 8 year ban for second offence. 1 year suspension for showing up late to a doping control. Unless racer can show unusual circumstances.

    Improved passport controls.

    More testing at all races. Including 1 day races and criteriums. Both blood, urine and hair samples at all tests.

    Automatic radio assay for anyone who gives late sample or shows suspicion. Random 30 % of samples are radio assayed for more positive substance identification.

    WADA investigation of UCI and other cycling body corruption.
    Last edited by Hezz; 08-12-10 at 08:52 PM.

  7. #7
    snob rogwilco's Avatar
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    You can't prevent doping, but I think you can prevent the worst excesses of doping and the infiltration of doping culture into mainstream sports with better and more frequent testing.

  8. #8
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    You don't mention stiffer penalties. The penalties seem too harsh in some cases on not harsh enough in others. If you get popped for some marginal drug that you took once you get 6 months (think Tyler Hamilton's second). If you have a structured program of doping and blood transfusions you get 6 years (think Tyler's first).

    They need to be taking on managers. I can't imagine being a 20 year old kid new to a team being told by his boss that this is what everyone does and if you want to succeed you will too. Of course that kid's going to dope 95% of the time.

    I also am dubious about the UCI.

  9. #9
    Senior Member collegeskier's Avatar
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    Yeah, I should have put in stiffer penalties there. I actually think that, it would be good to have a system where your get a like 4 to 8 years for your first offense. Then you can basically turn states evidence on how you did it how long you did it an who helped you etc and they drop it back to 2 years or maybe 4. Then second one is lifetime ban. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

  10. #10
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
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    Harsher punishments are useless in the world of cycling. Domestique salaries are too low for it to matter. If you get banned, you can fix your financial situation by going out and getting ANY job.

    It's not like other sports, where a guy is risking a fairly decent career to get to the top. A cyclist doesn't really risk anything at all.
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  11. #11
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
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    50 years from now, we'll have genetically engineered mutants coming out of 3rd world countries with two hearts and four lungs. One set for each leg. He/she will be able to ride a TT at 40mph avg with very little training.
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  12. #12
    Gluteus Enormus mmmdonuts's Avatar
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    My answer was "Let them dope". But I would like to add that testing should be conducted only in competition. Test the top 10 and more random racers. Positives should result in immediate DQ, a significant rider fine (and possibly a team fine) then life goes on. No long term penalties or out of competition testing. It would be cheaper, much easier to manage, and with a lot less drama.
    Everybody's got plans... until they get hit.
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  13. #13
    snob rogwilco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmdonuts View Post
    It would be cheaper, much easier to manage, and with a lot less drama.
    And also completely pointless and hypocritical.

  14. #14
    Gluteus Enormus mmmdonuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogwilco View Post
    And also completely pointless and hypocritical.
    No, it would penalize them for cheating in competition if caught. Guess what, that's life.
    Everybody's got plans... until they get hit.
    - Mike Tyson

  15. #15
    snob rogwilco's Avatar
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    Doping outside competition = cheating in competition. If you don't understand that you don't understand what doping is about at all.

    If you're only testing during competitions it would be more honest to not do it at all and not even pretend you give a ****.

  16. #16
    Gluteus Enormus mmmdonuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogwilco View Post
    Doping outside competition = cheating in competition. If you don't understand that you don't understand what doping is about at all.

    If you're only testing during competitions it would be more honest to not do it at all and not even pretend you give a ****.
    Yes, I do understand the doping during training has lasting effects into competition.

    My point is that the current methods are going beyond cleaning up the sport. They do as much if not more damage to the sport than the act of doping itself. They are attempting to control the athlete's lives, are too invasive, and very wasteful. For example Puerto has been going on for years now at who's expense and who is profiting? With a one time penalty it would have been over a long time ago. The time and resources could be spent to improve the testing. Let the teams and sponsors decide how the cheaters are dealt with in the long term. Those caught will lose value to both.

    It is just a sport. It is naive to attempt to enforce these ideal higher standards when the system is corrupt and politicized.
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  17. #17
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Make Management/Ownership responsible for doping violations. It's obvious that you cannot have widespread doping without the knowledge and implicit approval of team management.

    In fact, its now known that team management was supporting doping on various teams.

    So if you wan to stop it, don't just suspend the riders, punish the DS. You could have relatively minor sanctions for the first positive, rising progressively with subsequent offenses, and ultimately leading to lifetime bans with enough violations.

    With enough incentive, Team management could curtail doping if not completely stop it.

    And without that incentive, Team manangement will continue to allow, if not encourage, doping, and just throw the "rogue" rider who tests postive under the bus.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  18. #18
    pan y agua merlinextraligh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmdonuts View Post
    It is just a sport. It is naive to attempt to enforce these ideal higher standards when the system is corrupt and politicized.
    With a little or no testing, and little or no sanctions, the pressure to dope would be immense.

    Say you have a son that has real talent on the bike, and the chance to be on an Under 23 team in Europe. In your scheme of little or no testing, your son will have to choose whether to break various laws, and put his health at risk, or give up on being a professional cyclist.

    And with no testing, why not raise your hematacrit to 60%, even if there's a small chance it will kill you?
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    Make Management/Ownership responsible for doping violations. It's obvious that you cannot have widespread doping without the knowledge and implicit approval of team management.

    In fact, its now known that team management was supporting doping on various teams.

    So if you wan to stop it, don't just suspend the riders, punish the DS. You could have relatively minor sanctions for the first positive, rising progressively with subsequent offenses, and ultimately leading to lifetime bans with enough violations.

    With enough incentive, Team management could curtail doping if not completely stop it.

    And without that incentive, Team manangement will continue to allow, if not encourage, doping, and just throw the "rogue" rider who tests postive under the bus.
    +1. Increasing the duration of the penalty to four years and also suspending the DS for two years can really help, in my opinion. As it is now, a DS can encourage doping on teams without sanctions. That should not be acceptable.
    Regards,

    Jed

  20. #20
    Gluteus Enormus mmmdonuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
    With a little or no testing, and little or no sanctions, the pressure to dope would be immense.

    Say you have a son that has real talent on the bike, and the chance to be on an Under 23 team in Europe. In your scheme of little or no testing, your son will have to choose whether to break various laws, and put his health at risk, or give up on being a professional cyclist.

    And with no testing, why not raise your hematacrit to 60%, even if there's a small chance it will kill you?
    I don't recall writing NO TESTING. I stated TESTING IN COMPETITION, testing more riders, and improved testing. Catch the cheaters, penalize them for cheating, and move on. It is the persecution that I would like see eliminated. People who commit real crimes are not treated and persecuted the way professional cyclists have been this past decade. For what? Cheating in a competition? Pro cycling is a business and money from sponsors will dry up if they don't want to be associated with dirty riders and dirty teams. That in itself is enough punishment in my book. Why punish beyond that?

    All this disciplinary action, multi-year bans, lifetime bans, etc. only serves the power-hungry on their high horses.

    By the way, my very talented U23 son would have to make the same choices under the current scheme.
    Everybody's got plans... until they get hit.
    - Mike Tyson

  21. #21
    Senior Member Cateye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegeskier View Post
    I was curious if people have opinions about the current state of doping and what can be done to clean up cycling
    Put a muzzle on LeMond.

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