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  1. #26
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    I bet Lance wishes he had raced for Goldman Sachs. Their employees never get charged with anything.
    The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt.

  2. #27
    Rides with Scissors tmass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Prosecuting an a--hole of epic proportions like Armstrong is ok by me. What he has done to defraud the cancer community is despicable. Millions stolen from the government, from Nike, etc. Needs to b recovered when they lock him up in prison for a long, long time. I want him to come out of prison with nothing.
    I don't think u can say he "defrauded" the cancer community. He has raised millions for them which no matter what, I think all but you will say is good....his future ability to raise funds will be diminished.

    I'm just tired whether baseball or cycling the government has to stick their nose in so the egomaniacs in office can get their name in lights. They need to focus on the issues hurting this country and quit wasting or time and dollars...I'd rather bring them up for fraud in wasting our dollars and see a round of hearings on that.

    Let the sports organizations clean-up them self's.

    And it sounds like u have a personal issue with LA.
    TMass

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  3. #28
    Coffee Stud
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    Former team mates with (or hope to have) book deals or publicity have come out of the wood work, boy that has never happened before. Now, where's the proof!

  4. #29
    Senior Member Cateye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Prosecuting an a--hole of epic proportions like Armstrong is ok by me. What he has done to defraud the cancer community is despicable. Millions stolen from the government, from Nike, etc. Needs to b recovered when they lock him up in prison for a long, long time. I want him to come out of prison with nothing.
    What about everybody else that used drugs too during that time. What about people who smoke dope? Should they be locked up forever and get out with nothing? Do you smoke dope....or is this just a bellweatherman hates Lance thing? How did he steal millions from Nike? Did Tiger steal millions from Nike?

    If Lance broke the law the feds will get him but to say that he stole money from a private company like Nike who sponsored him in a business deal is silly. Nike took made an investment and I am sure it paid them big money in the long run and would do it again given the chance. This case is 10 years old and Nike could care less because they made money which is their bottom line.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmass View Post
    I don't think u can say he "defrauded" the cancer community. He has raised millions for them which no matter what, I think all but you will say is good....his future ability to raise funds will be diminished.

    I'm just tired whether baseball or cycling the government has to stick their nose in so the egomaniacs in office can get their name in lights. They need to focus on the issues hurting this country and quit wasting or time and dollars...I'd rather bring them up for fraud in wasting our dollars and see a round of hearings on that.

    Let the sports organizations clean-up them self's.

    And it sounds like u have a personal issue with LA.
    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    This madness will never end.
    Guess the French are having a ball over this. They hate all of us Americans and especially LA. Maybe they will ban all Americans from the TDF.

  6. #31
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    What Armstrong has done with his lies and assertions that he was clean is despicable to all the little cancer kids out there that believed in him. He gets no pass from me. Take his money, and give it to a real cause. Fighting cancer, not defrauding cancer victims into his world of lies, doping, cheating. Cheaters never win. Winners never cheat. Armstrong is not a winner, and certainly no champion.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    What Armstrong has done with his lies and assertions that he was clean is despicable to all the little cancer kids out there that believed in him. He gets no pass from me. Take his money, and give it to a real cause. Fighting cancer, not defrauding cancer victims into his world of lies, doping, cheating. Cheaters never win. Winners never cheat. Armstrong is not a winner, and certainly no champion.
    You have a personal issue with LA, obviously. I see you're from Austin. What happened, he drop you on a local ride or didn't sign your T shirt?? Odds are, that given all the bad, he's given more back to cancer victims with feelings of hope, and with millions donated, than you ever will in your lifetime. Like all things in life, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. Whether or not we find out is another issue altogether.

  8. #33
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmass View Post
    And it sounds like u have a personal issue with LA.
    Sounds like you buy his counter-tactics, of accusing anyone who questions anything he ever did of having a personal axe to grind.

    How many eye witnesses do you need to convict? Usually just one... and there are plenty. The federal government can't just "let it go" if there was federal money used to support a team that doped in direct violation of a contract. Unless the V.P. is the ex-CEO of the company, of course. But this isn't Halliburton, so Lance is most likely going down big time.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  9. #34
    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    Hmmm... does this mean that Ulle may be potentially inheriting 3 TDF wins?

  10. #35
    Senior Member bellweatherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laminarman View Post
    You have a personal issue with LA, obviously. I see you're from Austin. What happened, he drop you on a local ride or didn't sign your T shirt?? Odds are, that given all the bad, he's given more back to cancer victims with feelings of hope, and with millions donated, than you ever will in your lifetime. Like all things in life, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. Whether or not we find out is another issue altogether.

    Armstrong has his supporters in Austin, but even they are turning against him. There are lots of Austinites that have turned the corner on him.

    Raising money for cancer and lieing, cheating, smearing other riders is not honorable. You may as well praise the mafia for their charitable work taking a portion of their crime money and giving it to good causes. You will never understand honor, respect, dignity, and the good of sport so long as you choose to ignore the years of deceit, cheating, fraud,and corruption. Armstrong has done far more harm long-term in sport tha any publicized good that he has done. That so called good is built on a house of lies and fraud.
    Livestrong. The personal fundmaker of Lance Armstrong. The company who are in business to not donate to cancer research, but only to inform people that cancer is bad.

    Armstrong. The man without integrity, no care for the sport, and no problem with testing positive for EPO and making donations to cover it up.

    01101010101010001010

  11. #36
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Raising money for cancer and lieing, cheating, smearing other riders is not honorable. You may as well praise the mafia for their charitable work...

  12. #37
    Spit out the back tinrobot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmass View Post
    You know I think the US Gorenment should spend millions investigating the 2002 Super bowl game.
    The government didn't spend millions sponsoring a team in that game.

  13. #38
    Senior Member collegeskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinrobot View Post
    The government didn't spend millions sponsoring a team in that game.
    They gave them an anti-trust exemption instead. And I think I would not have to look to hard to find government money in the NFL. (Stadiums, military sponsorship, and oh yeah USPS sponsors a ton of other sports).

  14. #39
    Senior Member collegeskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    You may as well praise the mafia for their charitable work taking a portion of their crime money and giving it to good causes.
    I often praise the mafia but not for their charitable giving but for the reduced crime the cities experience. You don't f with the mafia, or they f with you. Keeps everyone nice and safe, assuming business pay their protection money.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Prosecuting an a--hole of epic proportions like Armstrong is ok by me. What he has done to defraud the cancer community is despicable. Millions stolen from the government, from Nike, etc. Needs to b recovered when they lock him up in prison for a long, long time. I want him to come out of prison with nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    What Armstrong has done with his lies and assertions that he was clean is despicable to all the little cancer kids out there that believed in him. He gets no pass from me. Take his money, and give it to a real cause. Fighting cancer, not defrauding cancer victims into his world of lies, doping, cheating. Cheaters never win. Winners never cheat. Armstrong is not a winner, and certainly no champion.
    Your bias and vitriol make your posts virtually unreadable. Your banter about Armstrong doping and cheating the government has an actual argument but claiming he defrauded cancer patients is beyond absurd and just screams of either bitterness or paranoia.

    By the accepted definition of what fraud is, can you provide something, anything remotely factual that points to Armstrong essentially stealing money from his cancer foundation? You really can't, can you? This is just some more of the Bellweatherman broken record that has been existing on this site for nearly five years now. Actual facts and evidence that he defrauded cancer patients, the ball is in your court, GO!

    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    How many eye witnesses do you need to convict? Usually just one... and there are plenty. The federal government can't just "let it go" if there was federal money used to support a team that doped in direct violation of a contract. Unless the V.P. is the ex-CEO of the company, of course. But this isn't Halliburton, so Lance is most likely going down big time.
    In theory you are right but then you run in to the little thingy of actually corroborating the testimony of those eyewitnesses. Currently we really don't know exactly what Hincapie told the grand jury so we'll leave him out of this. Let's focus on Frankie, Floyd and Tyler. All three have already stated in sworn testimony that they never saw Armstrong dope. Now that they get in front of Novitky's money wasting circus they change their tune. In addition you still have this little matter of physically proving he doped. I'm not saying he didn't, but you just can't go on the word of people that have already been proven to be liars and quite honestly frauds. Was it Tyler or Floyd (perhaps both) that had funds that fans donated to in order to help in their defense that they didn't dope.....a charge that they passionately denied. (Bellweatherman, that's fraud). Even if Armstrong gets nailed his attorneys have more than enough to get any conviction or judgement overturned.

    Remember that we have several cases of people convicted by eyewitness testimony that turned out to be innocent. Again I am not saying he didn't dope but you need something more substantial then eyewitnesses with dodgy pasts to convict or uphold a conviction.

    The thing about all this is that if they truly wanted to prove a conspiracy to defraud the government they don't actually have to prove he doped yet the overwhelming majority of the leaked information is about his doping. Sounds more like a smear campaign to me. Let's look at this more objectively, when Novitzky went after MLB, Bonds for example he spent over $50 million of the tax payers dollars proving nothing more than people lie. The fact is that he never did prove Bonds doped nor did it changed the fact that his investigation did nothing to curtail the use of dope in sports.


    Quote Originally Posted by bellweatherman View Post
    Armstrong has his supporters in Austin, but even they are turning against him. There are lots of Austinites that have turned the corner on him.

    Raising money for cancer and lieing, cheating, smearing other riders is not honorable. You may as well praise the mafia for their charitable work taking a portion of their crime money and giving it to good causes. You will never understand honor, respect, dignity, and the good of sport so long as you choose to ignore the years of deceit, cheating, fraud,and corruption. Armstrong has done far more harm long-term in sport tha any publicized good that he has done. That so called good is built on a house of lies and fraud.
    I live in Austin as well and I think you are expanding the reality a bit. Now how about lining out the evidence as to how he defrauded his cancer foundation. If you can't support your allegations with actual facts you should consider shutting up and posting in other topics since you are incapable of actually being remotely objective. Of course you only post in the threads that rip Armstrong so I guess you have no place to go.

  16. #41
    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoleTrainer View Post
    By the accepted definition of what fraud is, can you provide something, anything remotely factual that points to Armstrong essentially stealing money from his cancer foundation? You really can't, can you? This is just some more of the Bellweatherman broken record that has been existing on this site for nearly five years now. Actual facts and evidence that he defrauded cancer patients, the ball is in your court, GO!
    As someone who has had cancer, it's my point of view that it's not so much the money has taken, but using cancer and the Livestrong organization to build, add, or further his level of credibility. In short, hiding behind it. "Lance has done so much for cancer, how can we possibly think he would dope?"

    I look forward to the outcome with the Federal Government. If he is found guilty beyond any doubt, then his actions would certainly support sociopathic behavior.

  17. #42
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    I love it when the sock puppets come out to play.
    -------

    Some sort of pithy irrelevant one-liner should go here.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by xfimpg View Post
    As someone who has had cancer, it's my point of view that it's not so much the money has taken, but using cancer and the Livestrong organization to build, add, or further his level of credibility. In short, hiding behind it. "Lance has done so much for cancer, how can we possibly think he would dope?"

    I look forward to the outcome with the Federal Government. If he is found guilty beyond any doubt, then his actions would certainly support sociopathic behavior.
    First of all god speed with regards to your cancer. Secondly I personally don't believe the two are connected. I have seen nothing outwardly that would indicate that he uses Livestrong for anything other than it's intent. If he has please show me and I'll gladly retract my comment. Sociopathic may be a bit strong but narcissism might be closer. Really what it comes down to is that I can't fathom a survivor being so ****ed up in the head that they would use cancer for personal gain. Armstrong is definitely a character and even an ass at times but anybody that gets that sick doesn't use cancer. As for the investigation, whatever they find will it be worth the $50 million plus being spent and will it finally put a stop to doping in cycling and sport? War on drugs simply don't work.

    Thanks for the balanced and rational response.

  19. #44
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    Actually not a sock puppet, my old account did go missing while I was overseas. Thanks for the great post though.

  20. #45
    Infamous Member chipcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    Most of the riders are clean today.
    yeah, they just all eat tainted meat
    "Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey

  21. #46
    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoleTrainer View Post
    First of all god speed with regards to your cancer. Secondly I personally don't believe the two are connected. I have seen nothing outwardly that would indicate that he uses Livestrong for anything other than it's intent. If he has please show me and I'll gladly retract my comment. Sociopathic may be a bit strong but narcissism might be closer. Really what it comes down to is that I can't fathom a survivor being so ****ed up in the head that they would use cancer for personal gain. Armstrong is definitely a character and even an ass at times but anybody that gets that sick doesn't use cancer. As for the investigation, whatever they find will it be worth the $50 million plus being spent and will it finally put a stop to doping in cycling and sport? War on drugs simply don't work.

    Thanks for the balanced and rational response.
    No worries, I don't see myself as a victim to cancer.

    I'll bookmark this thread but I'm ready to bet my house, car, and even my bike that Lance is a sociopath. They are everywhere.

  22. #47
    Rides with Scissors tmass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Sounds like you buy his counter-tactics, of accusing anyone who questions anything he ever did of having a personal axe to grind.

    How many eye witnesses do you need to convict? Usually just one... and there are plenty. The federal government can't just "let it go" if there was federal money used to support a team that doped in direct violation of a contract. Unless the V.P. is the ex-CEO of the company, of course. But this isn't Halliburton, so Lance is most likely going down big time.
    Actually I would prefer scientific proof over the recall of witnesses. This is the reason that DNA is freeing wrongly accused where people for some reason made the wrong or false accusation. You seem to advocate the opposite utilize fa liable human memory vs scientific testing. I do say that the over 500 test and not once tested positive in 20 years is a big statement to overcome. I mean how did he fool over 500 tests? I could believe 10 or 20 tests he was able to somehow fool maybe....but 500????? Its like saying we take the witness account who will get off scot free over the 500 DNA test conducted by multiple agencies that say it was imposable for him to have committed the crime.

    My mind may work different but I say show me how he beat over 500 drug tests that obviously others did not....
    TMass

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  23. #48
    Senior Member pedex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmass View Post
    Actually I would prefer scientific proof over the recall of witnesses. This is the reason that DNA is freeing wrongly accused where people for some reason made the wrong or false accusation. You seem to advocate the opposite utilize fa liable human memory vs scientific testing. I do say that the over 500 test and not once tested positive in 20 years is a big statement to overcome. I mean how did he fool over 500 tests? I could believe 10 or 20 tests he was able to somehow fool maybe....but 500????? Its like saying we take the witness account who will get off scot free over the 500 DNA test conducted by multiple agencies that say it was imposable for him to have committed the crime.

    My mind may work different but I say show me how he beat over 500 drug tests that obviously others did not....
    A) show proof of the claimed number of tests taken
    B) what about his cortisone test issue back in 1999 I believe it was where they produced a back dated prescription for some cream for saddle sores yet the dosage needed to pop up on the test was pretty much impossible using that cream
    C) there is also the issue of the WADA/UCI EPO new testing protocol on old samples which allegedly busted Lance among others
    “Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Whoever wants it back has no brains.” --Vladmir Putin

  24. #49
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmass View Post
    My mind may work different but I say show me how he beat over 500 drug tests that obviously others did not....
    How many times have you exceeded the speed limit without being caught? The absence of scientific evidence does not, in and of itself, prove anything, especially when it isn't really expected to be there. The dope doctors have always been ahead of the testing protocols. It is the slip-ups (see Alberto Contador, caught only because he slipped up in choosing when to store blood), and the use by riders with less sophisticated support (like a guy hospitalized trying to transfuse himself), that are caught.

    Not to mention what has been pointed out; that lab tests have found drugs in his samples.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  25. #50
    Dropped again guadzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
    Most of the riders are clean today.
    You say this based on what, exactly?
    Peace is knowing someone else is suffering more than you are.

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