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Old 05-22-11, 08:07 PM   #51
calRider
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Your logic needs work. So you would also waste the money spent on this investigation even if it proved he did it?

Actually you are in the right place welcome to BF.
Your critical thinking skills need work: the money spent on this investigation is already lost. Assuming that the government spends half of what it did to get Bonds, that's still in the neighborhood of $25 million...are we going to see $25 million worth of value from a successful prosecution? Not likely. However, the real aim at jury nullification in this case would be to discourage the government from throwing money down the drain in the future.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:13 PM   #52
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i really hate i missed that interview! i wonder if/when they will air it again? i cought a clip on their website but it only showed parts and a post interview interview.
I captured it via a networked TV tuner.
~30 minutes was ~4GB at 1080i.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:13 PM   #53
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The CBS video starts with a Viagra commercial. Brilliant.


The whole thing is on the CBS site.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:20 PM   #54
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That's not for the jury to decide.
Actually, it is. The jury is probably one of the most powerful positions many of us will ever hold: it's the one place where we get to say to the government: "You're doing it wrong!" and they don't get to overrule you.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:22 PM   #55
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The CBS video starts with a Viagra commercial. Brilliant.
Makes sense to me: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0624120556.htm
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Old 05-22-11, 08:27 PM   #56
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Barry Bonds, generally not well liked by anyone outside of San Francisco, was only able to be convicted of obstruction of justice and was acquitted on all steroid related charges. How does the prosecutor expect to convict Lance Armstrong, generally viewed by the public as an American hero and has quite a bit of good will from Livestrong?
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Old 05-22-11, 08:32 PM   #57
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The CBS video starts with a Viagra commercial. Brilliant.


The whole thing is on the CBS site.
link?

edit: nvm

Last edited by M_FactorX19; 05-22-11 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:35 PM   #58
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www.cbsnews.com

Click on 60 Minutes
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Old 05-22-11, 08:35 PM   #59
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http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ain;contentAux
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Old 05-22-11, 08:36 PM   #60
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However, the real aim at jury nullification in this case would be to discourage the government from throwing money down the drain in the future.
That's not typically grounds for jury nullification.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:38 PM   #61
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What Lance has done for cancer survivors (like my wife) is beyond inspirational.
Let's not kid ourselves here. Your wife didn't beat cancer because of some inspirational stories of a sportsman. Your wife survived because of the expertise of medical practitioners and the countless hours spent by researchers to develop new drugs. Not to mention having the "right type of cancer" (if it could be phrased this way) that actually responds to treatment really helps.

You want inspirational? How about the lab rats who spend 12hours/day 6days/week to develop new medicine, knowing that the chance of success is very low? Or how about the venture capitalists who spend in tons of money knowing it will all go to naught? Neither is glamor, and the latter is not altruistic, but both have helped lower the death rate of cancer.
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Ask any cancer survivor, who has been impacted one way or the other by Lance's example and his foundation, what he/she thinks about this latest government witch hunt. You will be sur eto get an ear full!
Chances are, they are the beneficiaries of the American Cancer Society, Susan Komen Fund, or your own tax as it funds cancer research. The amount that Livestrong raises is nothing but a drop in the bucket and small even compared to the Susan Komen Fund.

While we are at it, let's discuss the following:

-In 2009 Livestrong spent a total of $4,195,187 on advertising. Only $401,709 of this was to promote fundraising activities.

-In 2009 Livestrong spent $15,377,233 on legal fees & salaries vs $11,775,916 paid out to grants & programs. Especially salient figure is the $4,507,130 increase in legal fees (from $4,911,712 to $9,418,842) between 2008/09.

-In 2009 Livestrong spent $1,922,995 on travel expenses. Of this just $187,680 was related to fundraising.

-In 2009 Livestrong Board members promised to donate a total of $5,470,971 (donations are tax deductible) but managed to donate just $908,091

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Why doesn't the Justice Department go after all the Wall Street dirt bags who have raped, and continue to economically ****, our country including people like us? Could it be because the Wall Street fat cats have our country's politicians in their back pocket? Hmmmmmmmmm!!!!
While i agree with the sentiment, you are employing a tactic known as




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I believed a lot of what Tyler said, but if I was on the jury, I'd vote not guilty--if only to demonstrate to the government that they need to spend our tax dollars with more care.
see above
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Old 05-22-11, 08:49 PM   #62
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Swimming (Kornelia Ender, omg, I still luff yhou!), track, football, baseball, each has been in the spotlight a few times; now it's cycling's turn, yet again.

The sh|t is not going away, ever, unless/until the testing catches up.

So shaddup f'ing Grand Jury, my ass, spending MY MONEY on this sheet.

Period.

That is all.
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Old 05-22-11, 08:57 PM   #63
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I thought Tyler came across as highly credible in that 60 Minutes piece. Either that or he has potential as a world class Academy Award winning actor. It was tough for him to do that interview. Hell, it was tough to watch.
I prefer Hincapie's approach to all of this over Hamilton's. (That is, apparently being honest before the grand jury but not doing public interviews on the subject). That being said, I agree that Hamilton looked credible in the interview. I also noticed that he was going out of his way to make it clear that all of the major riders were doing exactly what LA was doing.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:00 PM   #64
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I also noticed that he was going out of his way to make it clear that all of the major riders were doing exactly what LA was doing.
More names please.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:03 PM   #65
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Will the testing ever catch up?

Compare/contrast formula one and NASCAR, for example, where the brains think of new ways to gain an advantage over the comp; later on, there is/are rules created to restrict/outlaw the advantage.

Repeat, for ever.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:07 PM   #66
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I prefer Hincapie's approach to all of this over Hamilton's. (That is, apparently being honest before the grand jury but not doing public interviews on the subject). That being said, I agree that Hamilton looked credible in the interview. I also noticed that he was going out of his way to make it clear that all of the major riders were doing exactly what LA was doing.
And I liked the part about mgt handing out the white lunch bags,
and that this was going on even *before* LA joined the team.
It's high time the spotlight was on those mgt cockroaches that always go scurrying
away scot-free when a rider gets busted for doing what mgt told them to do!
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Old 05-22-11, 09:11 PM   #67
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I prefer Hincapie's approach to all of this over Hamilton's. (That is, apparently being honest before the grand jury but not doing public interviews on the subject).
Agree with this - I still would love to know what Hamilton's motivation was for doing a 60 minutes - if it's that hard for him to tell the story, he had the option to keep it behind closed doors for now - and let the story come out when the Grand Jury makes the call.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:11 PM   #68
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More names please.
I intended to state that Hamilton went out of his way in the interview to make the point that other riders were doping.

If you are asking for more names from Hamilton, you will have to contact Hamilton and/or 60 Minutes!!
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Old 05-22-11, 09:14 PM   #69
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During the segment, my wife asked me what would happen if the the Feds expended this much effort on investigating the use of steroids in pro football... Just imagine.
The Justice Department all over the country is regularly turning down cases to prosecute (drug dealers, money laundering, gangs, etc.) because of heavy case work and not enough resources. Yet they are spending this much time and money on something about an athlete in a sport a small portion of the population cares about possibly using performance enhancing drugs.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:23 PM   #70
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Let's not kid ourselves here. Your wife didn't beat cancer because of some inspirational stories of a sportsman. Your wife survived because of the expertise of medical practitioners and the countless hours spent by researchers to develop new drugs. Not to mention having the "right type of cancer" (if it could be phrased this way) that actually responds to treatment really helps.
And you know this how? Ever had cancer? Ever had to find the strength to just get up in the morning knowing how bad the day is going to be?

I've had cancer and inspiration counts for one heckuva lot. There are a lot of cancer patients that just give up, despite all the wonderful medicine and technology.

J.
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Old 05-22-11, 09:41 PM   #71
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And you know this how? Ever had cancer? Ever had to find the strength to just get up in the morning knowing how bad the day is going to be?

I've had cancer and inspiration counts for one heckuva lot. There are a lot of cancer patients that just give up, despite all the wonderful medicine and technology.

J.
Look, i'm glad you beat it, but for many it all becomes useless in the end because the cancer won't respond to treatment. Inspiration doesn't mean anything if the cancer keeps on metastasizing despite the best advances of modern medicine.
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Old 05-22-11, 10:00 PM   #72
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Should athletes be able to use any and all technology available to them to improve their performance including EPO? There are people that have naturally higher levels of testerone. Could these people with higher levels of testerone be punished because they have better genetics?

I just wonder if someone was hammering over the counter supplements could they be eliminated from a race for cheating.

I am just throwing out these question for discusses.
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Old 05-22-11, 10:06 PM   #73
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Should athletes be able to use any and all technology available to them to improve their performance including EPO? There are people that have naturally higher levels of testerone. Could these people with higher levels of testerone be punished because they have better genetics?

I just wonder if someone was hammering over the counter supplements could they be eliminated from a race for cheating.

I am just throwing out these question for discusses.
I think you got it backwards. The ones with naturally high testosterones are being punished by the dopers on roids. Similarly, the rider with naturally high VO2max and metabolic efficiency are being punished by the dopers on EPO.
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Old 05-22-11, 10:07 PM   #74
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Look, i'm glad you beat it, but for many it all becomes useless in the end because the cancer won't respond to treatment. Inspiration doesn't mean anything if the cancer keeps on metastasizing despite the best advances of modern medicine.
You completely missed what he said. Do a Google search and see what pops up? Or talk with an oncologist? Or even read Lance's book? The mental apsect of patients are a big factor in recovery.
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Old 05-22-11, 10:14 PM   #75
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They've actually done studies that show that mental outlook/state of mind has no effect on patient recovery. It makes for a good story, but it's just not true.
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