Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-12-11, 07:41 AM   #1
PeddlingPilgrim
Banned
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: people's republic of eugene oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 744
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Contador spokesman confims he will race in the TDF...

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011...fims-tour.html

"The CAS originally had planned to hear the case June 6-8, aiming to issue a verdict by the end of the month. That would have either exonerated Contador or barred him from starting the Tour, but the dates were pushed back to Aug. 1-3 give both sides more time to prepare."

it's become like professional wrestling, a spectacle & theatrical performance now..
PeddlingPilgrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-11, 08:36 AM   #2
SouthFLpix
Senior Member
 
SouthFLpix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Miami, FL
Bikes: 2007 Giant Cypress DX, Windsor Tourist 2011
Posts: 1,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No real surprise. Contador has been acting like a very angry guy with regards to his pending case, and I think he wants to go for the unprecedented the Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple to sort of show everyone, "Hey, this is the kind of rider that I really am." I've been observing Contador for a long time, and he's a guy that sort of takes any criticism or pressure and gets this attitude of "I'll show them what I can do on my bike and make them shut-up that way."

For example, the 2009 Tour reminded me of the 1985 Tour, where you will recall that Greg Lemond battled his own teammate Bernard Hinault for the yellow jersey. Lemond was really the stronger rider in that Tour, but Hinault was a superstar and had the backing of the team and they sort of talked Greg into 'waiting' for Hinault on the condition that Hinault would ride for Lemond the following year. This is where Lemond sort of shows that he didn't have such a strong character and what he really did was give away a Tour victory even though he was the strongest rider. Then he went out and sort of complained to the press about what happened and to this day still talks about the 1985 Tour like he was screwed over and should have won.

The 2009 Tour was very similar in that Armstrong was the popular champion with 7 Tours and going for his 8th, but Alberto was really the stronger rider at that point. Armstrong sort of talked the team into supporting him and tried to win the Tour via 'politics' by accusing Alberto of not following team tactics. Alberto was under a lot of pressure, and unlike Lemond, what he did was 'take no deals' and just attack and ride as hard as he could and screw team politics.

So I think that's once again what he's doing. Contador got himself in the absolute best shape of his life and he's going to try for the Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple to show everyone what he's really made of "on the bike".

Last edited by SouthFLpix; 06-12-11 at 08:41 AM.
SouthFLpix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-11, 12:01 AM   #3
dahoss2002
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bossier City, La
Bikes: 70's Motobecane, 89 Centurion Ironman
Posts: 618
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthFLpix View Post
No real surprise. Contador has been acting like a very angry guy with regards to his pending case, and I think he wants to go for the unprecedented the Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple to sort of show everyone, "Hey, this is the kind of rider that I really am." I've been observing Contador for a long time, and he's a guy that sort of takes any criticism or pressure and gets this attitude of "I'll show them what I can do on my bike and make them shut-up that way."

For example, the 2009 Tour reminded me of the 1985 Tour, where you will recall that Greg Lemond battled his own teammate Bernard Hinault for the yellow jersey. Lemond was really the stronger rider in that Tour, but Hinault was a superstar and had the backing of the team and they sort of talked Greg into 'waiting' for Hinault on the condition that Hinault would ride for Lemond the following year. This is where Lemond sort of shows that he didn't have such a strong character and what he really did was give away a Tour victory even though he was the strongest rider. Then he went out and sort of complained to the press about what happened and to this day still talks about the 1985 Tour like he was screwed over and should have won.

The 2009 Tour was very similar in that Armstrong was the popular champion with 7 Tours and going for his 8th, but Alberto was really the stronger rider at that point. Armstrong sort of talked the team into supporting him and tried to win the Tour via 'politics' by accusing Alberto of not following team tactics. Alberto was under a lot of pressure, and unlike Lemond, what he did was 'take no deals' and just attack and ride as hard as he could and screw team politics.

So I think that's once again what he's doing. Contador got himself in the absolute best shape of his life and he's going to try for the Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple to show everyone what he's really made of "on the bike".
I think you are correct.
dahoss2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-11, 02:23 AM   #4
Kind of Blued
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Golden, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 912
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm all for it. All politics aside, I just really enjoy watching the guy race his bike.
Kind of Blued is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-11, 10:19 AM   #5
telebianchi
Senior Member
 
telebianchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 2003 Fuji Cross, 2010 Giant Trance, 2006 K2 Mod 4.0, 2010 Schwinn Madison
Posts: 1,279
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think that pro cycling is screwing this up (suprise!). So if in August they find that Contador is guilty of doping in 2010, are they going to strip him of both 2010 and 2011 TdFs (yes, I'm making an assumption about 2011)? Plus the Giro? Both sides need "time to prepare"? What have they been doing for the past eleven months?
telebianchi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-11, 01:40 PM   #6
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthFLpix View Post
No real surprise. Contador has been acting like a very angry guy with regards to his pending case, and I think he wants to go for the unprecedented the Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple to sort of show everyone, "Hey, this is the kind of rider that I really am." I've been observing Contador for a long time, and he's a guy that sort of takes any criticism or pressure and gets this attitude of "I'll show them what I can do on my bike and make them shut-up that way."

For example, the 2009 Tour reminded me of the 1985 Tour, where you will recall that Greg Lemond battled his own teammate Bernard Hinault for the yellow jersey. Lemond was really the stronger rider in that Tour, but Hinault was a superstar and had the backing of the team and they sort of talked Greg into 'waiting' for Hinault on the condition that Hinault would ride for Lemond the following year. This is where Lemond sort of shows that he didn't have such a strong character and what he really did was give away a Tour victory even though he was the strongest rider. Then he went out and sort of complained to the press about what happened and to this day still talks about the 1985 Tour like he was screwed over and should have won.

The 2009 Tour was very similar in that Armstrong was the popular champion with 7 Tours and going for his 8th, but Alberto was really the stronger rider at that point. Armstrong sort of talked the team into supporting him and tried to win the Tour via 'politics' by accusing Alberto of not following team tactics. Alberto was under a lot of pressure, and unlike Lemond, what he did was 'take no deals' and just attack and ride as hard as he could and screw team politics.

So I think that's once again what he's doing. Contador got himself in the absolute best shape of his life and he's going to try for the Giro-Tour-Vuelta triple to show everyone what he's really made of "on the bike".
A rather simplistic and in some significant areas flat out wrong view.

At least if Andy Hampsten knows anything. only one rider was really dedicated to Hinault.

http://bikeraceinfo.com/oralhistory/hampsten.html

The promises in 85 were not made during the race, certianly not made by Hinault on hte key stage when Lemond waited. Lemond did not expect to race for himself that year anyway. The issue was that when he waitted for Hinault he was lied to as to just how far back Hinault was.

If Hinault had totally gone back on his word he could have won in 86. But he did not go that far, instead he found a way to claim he was working for Lemond that gave him a chance to win. He would attack and when the rest of the field had been burned out, Lemond could counter. And of course it would not be his fault if the rest of the field could not bring him back. As I recall at one point he had the chance to simply sit in and win, instead he continued to attack and that time Greg did counter.

Also Contidor did not ignore team politics, instead he played them beautifully. His huge danger was that if Armstrong had yellow he could not attack. So he saw his chance and took the needed seconds back, and did so without getting in yellow himself, so they could not complain too much. Though they tried and said he almost got the team in yellow too soon.

BTW the 1986 La Vie Claire team arguably has the best team results ever in the TDF. Placing 1,2,4,7,12 and also picking up the KOM.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-11, 02:01 PM   #7
Caretaker
Heretic
 
Caretaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
"Contador Spokesman Confirms he will race in the TdF..........."

Yeah, but what about Contador and if his spokesman is riding will he be too knackered to tune Albertos wheels after each stage?
Caretaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-11, 02:18 PM   #8
gear
Senior Member
 
gear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: North shore of Mass.
Bikes:
Posts: 2,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
"Contador Spokesman Confirms he will race in the TdF..........."

Yeah, but what about Contador and if his spokesman is riding will he be too knackered to tune Albertos wheels after each stage?
Very nice!
gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-11, 06:20 PM   #9
SouthFLpix
Senior Member
 
SouthFLpix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Miami, FL
Bikes: 2007 Giant Cypress DX, Windsor Tourist 2011
Posts: 1,165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
A rather simplistic and in some significant areas flat out wrong view.
Here's what Lemond himself said about it:

"It wasn't until that big group came to me that I really got pissed, when I realized Hinault wasn't there and that he was even farther down the climb behind guys that were sprinters! In a way, Hinualt should not have won that Tour. It doesn't matter if he's the strongest the first week, that doesn't make a difference. It's who's the strongest over three weeks. If he had a bad day, that's part of it-he didn't deserve to win the '85 Tour. At the hotel, they made all these promises for the following year, but still said, 'You have to help Hinault the next day.' I wasn't mad at Hinault. I wasn't pissed at him at all. Hinault wasn't telling them what to do. It was Bernard Tapie's and Paul Keochli's conspiracy to make sure Hinault won his fifth Tour. So they promised that no matter what, even if Hinault was in the very best shape the following year, he would work for me. That's why I was so irritated the following year when he totally tried screwing me. But I don't blame him. Well, I blame him because he wouldn't have won his fifth Tour if I hadn't slowed down. But the fact that he did, he was going for his sixth. He didn't care about me. "

Here's the link to the interview: http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

I don't think there is any way Hinault could have won in 86. By that point Lemond was just far too strong and he was not going to 'play nice' and let Hinault have le Tour two years in a row. Really Lemond should have won in 85, but he wasn't 'a captain' mentally, although physically he certainly was. The reason Hinault lost in 86 is simply because he could not hold off the younger and much stronger Lemond.

Mind you I think your mental toughness certainly matters, otherwise maybe a guy like Joaquim Rodriguez should climb just as well as Contador. Physically he's close, but he's just not as tough mentally.

Coverage of the 85 and 86 Tours is available on Youtube, if anyone wants to re-watch them.
SouthFLpix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-11, 04:18 PM   #10
Keith99
Senior Member
 
Keith99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthFLpix View Post
Here's what Lemond himself said about it:

"It wasn't until that big group came to me that I really got pissed, when I realized Hinault wasn't there and that he was even farther down the climb behind guys that were sprinters! In a way, Hinualt should not have won that Tour. It doesn't matter if he's the strongest the first week, that doesn't make a difference. It's who's the strongest over three weeks. If he had a bad day, that's part of it-he didn't deserve to win the '85 Tour. At the hotel, they made all these promises for the following year, but still said, 'You have to help Hinault the next day.' I wasn't mad at Hinault. I wasn't pissed at him at all. Hinault wasn't telling them what to do. It was Bernard Tapie's and Paul Keochli's conspiracy to make sure Hinault won his fifth Tour. So they promised that no matter what, even if Hinault was in the very best shape the following year, he would work for me. That's why I was so irritated the following year when he totally tried screwing me. But I don't blame him. Well, I blame him because he wouldn't have won his fifth Tour if I hadn't slowed down. But the fact that he did, he was going for his sixth. He didn't care about me. "

Here's the link to the interview: http://www.roble.net/marquis/coaching/lemond98.html

I don't think there is any way Hinault could have won in 86. By that point Lemond was just far too strong and he was not going to 'play nice' and let Hinault have le Tour two years in a row. Really Lemond should have won in 85, but he wasn't 'a captain' mentally, although physically he certainly was. The reason Hinault lost in 86 is simply because he could not hold off the younger and much stronger Lemond.

Mind you I think your mental toughness certainly matters, otherwise maybe a guy like Joaquim Rodriguez should climb just as well as Contador. Physically he's close, but he's just not as tough mentally.

Coverage of the 85 and 86 Tours is available on Youtube, if anyone wants to re-watch them.
That fits with what I remember. Except that I think there was a point where Hinault would have been in great shape if he started playing conservative. I think that was the end of stage 12. He continued to stay aggressive and ended up dropping 4:39 to Lemond on stage 13.

It also fits with why Hampsten left La Vie Claire. He felt they had already decided that the next team leader would be Jean-Franccois Bernard, a French rider (and very good) no matter how good any American on the team was.
Keith99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-11, 04:12 AM   #11
Marauder9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Durham, UK.
Bikes:
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
http://www.goinggoingbike.com/blog/c...r-and-the-law/

Some interesting reading but I am so confused
Marauder9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-11, 12:53 PM   #12
Caretaker
Heretic
 
Caretaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marauder9 View Post
http://www.goinggoingbike.com/blog/c...r-and-the-law/

Some interesting reading but I am so confused
Most of it sticks to the facts.

Where I disagree is the "Summary of current position? UCI (and rest of world).......he should be banned...."
Whatever about "rest of world" the UCI position as I understand it is that AC has a case to answer but they take no position on whether he should be banned. They are appealing to CAS because of political interference in the lead up to the decision by the Spanish Federation.

This is what Pat McQuaid said in March 2011 before the CAS hearing was delayed.

http://www.bicycle.net/2011/mcquaid-...ontador-appeal
Caretaker is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:19 PM.