Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-12-11, 06:42 PM   #26
Eclectus
Senior Member
 
Eclectus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kansas
Bikes: Cervelo RS, Specialized Stumpy, Schwinn 974
Posts: 1,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The whole UCI thing is dummkopf. Why not allow the lightest bikes to compete? On time-trial flats, why not allow recumbents?

"We cannot allow this kind of thinking, because we'll we just can't. We aren't interested in seeing the best times possible, we're only interested in CONTROLLING PERFORMANCE TO WHAT IS BELOW WHAT IS POSSIBLE."
Eclectus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-11, 06:44 PM   #27
celticfrost
Raising the Abyss
 
celticfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TTing on the MUP
Bikes: Expensive ones that I ride slowly
Posts: 3,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
UCI:

"EPO, Good"

"sub 15lb bike, Bad"
__________________
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
celticfrost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-11, 06:51 PM   #28
rangerdavid
Senior Member
 
rangerdavid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boone, North Carolina
Bikes: 2009 Cannondale CAAD9-6 2014 Trek Domaine 5.9
Posts: 5,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the EVO is an awesome bike..... really quite an inovation. It has received quite a bit of praise from lots of folks.
rangerdavid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-11, 07:14 PM   #29
vespoli
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 149
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The point is to standardize the bike so that the RIDERS are being judged, not the sponsors' pocketbooks or the latest MIT whizkid in their employ. Whether that leads to doping is up for debate.
vespoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-11, 07:15 PM   #30
patentcad
Peloton Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Bikes: 2013 Scott Foil, 2014 Scott Addict, 2008 Cervelo P3 (TT), 2015 Scott Scale 700SL MTB
Posts: 59,432
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticfrost View Post
I don't think that dementia is terminal, so there's hope for you yet.
You are my BF Ray of Sunshine.
patentcad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-11, 07:20 PM   #31
celticfrost
Raising the Abyss
 
celticfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TTing on the MUP
Bikes: Expensive ones that I ride slowly
Posts: 3,804
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
You are my BF Ray of Sunshine.
And you are my BF Wizard of Oz. Despite all your bellowing, we all know you're a softy.
__________________
"...in Las Vegas where -the electric bills are staggering -the decor hog wild -and the entertainment saccharine -what a golden age -what a time of right and reason -the consumer's king -and unhappiness is treason..."
celticfrost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-11, 10:02 PM   #32
sleepy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Williamsburg, Tennesse.
Bikes: All have flats.
Posts: 978
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespoli View Post
The point is to standardize the bike so that the RIDERS are being judged, not the sponsors' pocketbooks or the latest MIT whizkid in their employ. Whether that leads to doping is up for debate.
This.

I'm hoping to see a racer win on a KHS or an open-mold frame. Otherwise, it'd just be Specialized or Cervelo or whoever has the most Dental Funding to blow on 1 pound plastic e-gruppo crap.
sleepy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 01:39 AM   #33
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbf73 View Post
NOT ALL - the lighter riders likely are smaller/less frontal area/better aero.
For climbing the aero factor is not important ... the weight and especially the power to weight ratio is.
AdelaaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 01:40 AM   #34
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bratton View Post
^ pro troll
It isn't because you fail to comprehend an argument that said argument automatically becomes a "troll".
AdelaaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 01:45 AM   #35
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
why not allow recumbents?
Why not allow knives in soccer?
Why not allow small electric motors in cycling?
Why not allow bionic replacement cyborg muscles?
Why not allow rocket boosters?
Why not allow dragcars in front of riders?
Why not allow springs that tension themselves while going down and then release energy going up?
etc...

A sport is a sport and all sports have restrictions to keep them the sports they are.
I like my bikes to remain bikes and applaud the UCI for outlawing anything that changes them too much.
AdelaaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 02:31 AM   #36
MichaelW
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: England
Bikes:
Posts: 12,920
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For a mountain stage bike, there may be some advantage in using lighter wheels and transferring the weight to ballast on the frame.
I am surprised that metal weights are added to the crankset: a rotating part, rather than, say the waterbottle holders.
I appreciate the idea of lighter bikes for lighter riders. In pro racing this may not be do-able but for everyone else, it should be quite normal. I dont see why, as a 140lbs (64kg) lightweight, why should I have to buy bikes rated for 300lbs riders.
MichaelW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 02:36 AM   #37
NathanL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Does any form of racing that involves a vehicle not have a minimum weight for the vehicle. I'm not sure but I know most forms of motorcycle and auto racing have minimums etc... I know bicycle racing would be diffrent from the power plant point of view but it is still a race vehicle.
NathanL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 02:36 AM   #38
patentcad
Peloton Dog
 
patentcad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chester, NY
Bikes: 2013 Scott Foil, 2014 Scott Addict, 2008 Cervelo P3 (TT), 2015 Scott Scale 700SL MTB
Posts: 59,432
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
Why not allow knives in soccer?
Firearms. The answer to eliminating soccer for good is allowing firearms in the sport.
patentcad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 02:57 AM   #39
Rowan
Has opinion, will express
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Bikes:
Posts: 14,658
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
At a certain level, and pros are definately there, you can not lose weight without sacrificing power.
Pro athletes are basicly bones and muscles and you can't just "choose" your body type.
Lighter riders have less power and so they carry relatively heavier bikes because all bikes weigh exactly the limit these days.
It's unfair to guys like Pantani or Contador.
Did you miss something in the history of cycling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
For a mountain stage bike, there may be some advantage in using lighter wheels and transferring the weight to ballast on the frame.
I am surprised that metal weights are added to the crankset: a rotating part, rather than, say the waterbottle holders.
I appreciate the idea of lighter bikes for lighter riders. In pro racing this may not be do-able but for everyone else, it should be quite normal. I dont see why, as a 140lbs (64kg) lightweight, why should I have to buy bikes rated for 300lbs riders.
Which Tour rider weighs in at 300lbs?
Rowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 03:11 AM   #40
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Did you miss something in the history of cycling?
If you would look at the history of cycling, my dear fellow, you would come to the conclusion that very light riders, contrary to popular belief, actually are not good climbers in general.

I'll give you the numbers:

Pantani weighed only 55kg and had an aerobic power of 357W ... this gives him 6,5W/kg ... his power to frontal area was 1073W/mē

Armstrong weighed 74kg and had an aerobic power of 481W ... this also gives him 6,5W/kg ... his power to frontal area was 1185W/mē

If we count all the variables except the bike ... both riders will go up something like "Le Mont Ventoux" at the same speed except that Pantani has a smaller frontal area and so he should win.

Now ... bear with me here.
If we count in the weight of the bike at 6,5 kilograms and we calculate the theoretical times on the Ventoux ... we will see that Pantani will lose by about a minute and a half!

Face it: the weight of the bike is unfair to lighter riders in climbs.
AdelaaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 03:12 AM   #41
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanL View Post
Does any form of racing that involves a vehicle not have a minimum weight for the vehicle. I'm not sure but I know most forms of motorcycle and auto racing have minimums etc... I know bicycle racing would be diffrent from the power plant point of view but it is still a race vehicle.
This comparison is pointless since in auto racing all riders have the same engine specifications.
AdelaaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 03:14 AM   #42
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by patentcad View Post
Firearms. The answer to eliminating soccer for good is allowing firearms in the sport.
That would make it too weird ... knives will be just fine and will make it more spectacular
The goalkeeper could be allowed to carry an actual sword or spear maybe?
AdelaaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 03:17 AM   #43
NathanL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Bikes:
Posts: 105
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
This comparison is pointless since in auto racing all riders have the same engine specifications.
Not always. For those that don't they have a weight break system that regulates weight of car by displacement. I see your point but what other form of racing at all has no minimum weight on the vehicle? Most times it's to limit either how much technology can be introduced or to limit cost.
NathanL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 04:03 AM   #44
SlowOlympian
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Olympia, WA
Bikes: 2010 Specialized Allez
Posts: 197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
If you would look at the history of cycling, my dear fellow, you would come to the conclusion that very light riders, contrary to popular belief, actually are not good climbers in general.

I'll give you the numbers:

Pantani weighed only 55kg and had an aerobic power of 357W ... this gives him 6,5W/kg ... his power to frontal area was 1073W/mē

Armstrong weighed 74kg and had an aerobic power of 481W ... this also gives him 6,5W/kg ... his power to frontal area was 1185W/mē

If we count all the variables except the bike ... both riders will go up something like "Le Mont Ventoux" at the same speed except that Pantani has a smaller frontal area and so he should win.

Now ... bear with me here.
If we count in the weight of the bike at 6,5 kilograms and we calculate the theoretical times on the Ventoux ... we will see that Pantani will lose by about a minute and a half!

Face it: the weight of the bike is unfair to lighter riders in climbs.
So you would be all up for a bike weighing 10% of the rider's weight? or a bike for everyone that weighs the same? a bike that is 10% of rider weight seems fair to me, since lighter riders dont have the weight to push down without pushing up their body(without a more concerted core effort to resist such motion)?
SlowOlympian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 09:36 AM   #45
bratton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ridley, pa
Bikes: felt f85
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
It isn't because you fail to comprehend an argument that said argument automatically becomes a "troll".
Fail to comprehend? Hahaha. Allow me to modify my accusation: typical pretentious BF troll
bratton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 09:56 AM   #46
zigmeister 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 883
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You mean, the bike still weight 14.99lbs minimum?

Pretty funny how they could tell the 500gms, then they rig it for the guy with the same bikes, he was no dummy.

Can I just suggest some diuretics instead of this bike weight nonsense?
__________________
HTFU

Last edited by zigmeister; 07-13-11 at 10:01 AM.
zigmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 10:01 AM   #47
2ndGen
CAADdict
 
2ndGen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: BF Heaven
Bikes: 2009 Cannondale CAAD9-?
Posts: 6,756
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bratton View Post
Fail to comprehend? Hahaha. Allow me to modify my accusation: typical pretentious BF troll
lmfao!
2ndGen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 10:15 AM   #48
Fiery
Senior Member
 
Fiery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 945
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
Face it: the weight of the bike is unfair to lighter riders in climbs.
So that's why all the climbing specialists are big, strong guys!
Fiery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 10:22 AM   #49
AdelaaR
Senior Member
 
AdelaaR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vlaamse Ardennen, Belgium
Bikes:
Posts: 3,898
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bratton View Post
Fail to comprehend? Hahaha. Allow me to modify my accusation: typical pretentious BF troll
Instead of making more silly attempts at mocking me it would suit you better to bring arguments to the table.
In my post above I have come up with actual numbers proving my statement that the weight of the bike is unfair for lighter riders.
This is not just a random thing I say but it is backed up by logic and physics.
I might be wrong, but until proven wrong by logic I will assume I am right.
I have yet to see you come up with anything even remotely resembling logic or numbers or even a statement other than "you are a troll".
Maybe your childish behaviour is indeed "typical pretentious BF", I don't know.
AdelaaR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-11, 10:32 AM   #50
svtmike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Bikes: S-Works Roubaix SL2^H4, Secteur Sport, TriCross, Kaffenback, Lurcher 29er
Posts: 2,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdelaaR View Post
They should make the rule so that the bike should weigh 10% of the rider.
Only then will there be an equal competition between riders.
Seems like your interpretation of "equal" is "handicapped".

Under today's rules, all the bike riders have to ride a bike of the same minimum weight (among other restrictions) along the same course, regardless of their conditioning or body type. That sounds equal to me.

Coming up with a system that attempts to handicap particular riders relative to others is not equal competition, it's an attempt to stack the deck against the most gifted.
svtmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:23 AM.