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Old 07-21-11, 05:37 AM   #1
thehammerdog
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TDF doping question.......

I was wondering.......given that the tour big boys seems tobe very equal in ability this year is it a result if Noone doping or everyone doping. The big GC guys seem unable to drop the other as in past years....Lance use to drop guys like a hot tater......what gives?

Is this the first true clean tour?
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Old 07-21-11, 05:42 AM   #2
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Is this the first true clean tour?
Unlikely, given that one rider has already tested positive for a masking agent. But it s true that the big names, except for Evans, have all looked more vulnerable than usual. So it is possible that the testing regime is starting to work.
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Old 07-21-11, 05:43 AM   #3
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You know they get tested very often; the media would love to hear wind of a doping leader. I don't see the risk vs reward of doping if you're in the top 25, but who knows. There are breakaways too, it seems that there is usually 1-5 riders that break away from the peleton for a while and either finish ahead of the peleton or get caught at the very end.
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Old 07-21-11, 05:49 AM   #4
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You know they get tested very often; the media would love to hear wind of a doping leader. I don't see the risk vs reward of doping if you're in the top 25, but who knows. There are breakaways too, it seems that there is usually 1-5 riders that break away from the peleton for a while and either finish ahead of the peleton or get caught at the very end.
Yeah, it's a phenomenon known as advertising. You get a domestique out there, the logo gets on tv a whole lot, but they almost always get caught, unless the peloton does not care, which rarely happens. They don't go out there thnking they will win the stage.

There's 19 guys in a break right now. Unless the top climbers decide to not push forward, they have no chance of surviving.
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Old 07-21-11, 06:11 AM   #5
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Yeah, it's a phenomenon known as advertising. You get a domestique out there, the logo gets on tv a whole lot, but they almost always get caught, unless the peloton does not care, which rarely happens. They don't go out there thnking they will win the stage.

There's 19 guys in a break right now. Unless the top climbers decide to not push forward, they have no chance of surviving.

Do you think the whole TDF is nothing more than an advertising scam? Riders that break out front are usually hoping for a stage win because they are so far behind that there is no chance of placing in the final standings. You rarely see experienced riders breaking out so far ahead.
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Old 07-21-11, 06:19 AM   #6
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:shakes head:

because riders are sent out on suicidal breaks to get exposure doesn't make them scams. it serves two purposes; it gets the team exposure on international TV (the main goal of sponsoring a pro cycling team) and it makes rival teams chase the break down eventually.
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Old 07-21-11, 06:29 AM   #7
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There are always a few successful breaks in the TDF and there are multiple layers to the strategy and response to a breakaway. It could be for exposure, to force another team to work, to send "helpers" up the road for later, to win the stage, rider GC, team GC, etc. It's more complex than let them go, we'll catch them later.

To the OP, I don't think there will ever be a truly clean TDF.
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Old 07-21-11, 09:24 AM   #8
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There are always a few successful breaks in the TDF and there are multiple layers to the strategy and response to a breakaway. It could be for exposure, to force another team to work, to send "helpers" up the road for later, to win the stage, rider GC, team GC, etc. It's more complex than let them go, we'll catch them later.

To the OP, I don't think there will ever be a truly clean TDF.
You are probably correct.

Many different substances have been used over the years: amphetamines (killed Tom Simpson on Mt. Ventoux), EPO, and nicotine

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Old 07-21-11, 09:52 AM   #9
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Interesting article on this subject: http://www.sportsscientists.com/2011...-passport.html
There are a lot of posts on that site about power output comparisons in pro cycling, particularly comparing mountain stages of the Tour of various years. Neat stuff.
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Old 07-21-11, 11:04 AM   #10
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Old 07-21-11, 11:53 AM   #11
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You are probably correct.

Many different substances have been used over the years: amphetamines (killed Tom Simpson on Mt. Ventoux), EPO, and nicotine

Could that possibly be pot that the guy is taking a drag on?
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Old 07-21-11, 01:01 PM   #12
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Could that possibly be pot that the guy is taking a drag on?
And the guy all the way on the left was waiting for his turn, impatiently.
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Old 07-21-11, 01:54 PM   #13
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I was wondering.......given that the tour big boys seems tobe very equal in ability this year is it a result if Noone doping or everyone doping. The big GC guys seem unable to drop the other as in past years....Lance use to drop guys like a hot tater......what gives?

Is this the first true clean tour?
First of all Lance just dashed to the line in the final KMs of stages, anyone with good condition can do that. As a matter of fact, that happens on every stage. Just because he was dashing away from 5 guys doesnt mean anything, he raced by attrition, not by attack.

As for doping I have no idea what Tour De France you are watching.
Guys are blowing off the back on one day and attacking the next day after an obvious blood transfusion over night. Wake up.
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Old 07-21-11, 02:25 PM   #14
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As for doping I have no idea what Tour De France you are watching.
Guys are blowing off the back on one day and attacking the next day after an obvious blood transfusion over night. Wake up.
A comment like this without addressing the data referred to in the Science of Sport blog is just so much typing.
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Old 07-21-11, 02:29 PM   #15
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A comment like this without addressing the data referred to in the Science of Sport blog is just so much typing.
Apologies then. I do beg your bardon; indeed, this does appear to be a clean Tour doesn't it...
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Old 07-21-11, 02:33 PM   #16
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Apologies then. I do beg your bardon; indeed, this does appear to be a clean Tour doesn't it...
Is that what you take from the data? That wouldn't be my interpretation. You realize there are other possibilities beside 100% of the field is doping without restraint and 100% of the field is absolutely pure?
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Old 07-21-11, 02:48 PM   #17
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Is that what you take from the data? That wouldn't be my interpretation. You realize there are other possibilities beside 100% of the field is doping without restraint and 100% of the field is absolutely pure?
The Tour is 3 weeks of hell. Just finishing in itself; just, finishing, requires doping. Its really that simple. Apologies for all the typing once again.
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Old 07-21-11, 09:45 PM   #18
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First of all Lance just dashed to the line in the final KMs of stages, anyone with good condition can do that. As a matter of fact, that happens on every stage. Just because he was dashing away from 5 guys doesnt mean anything, he raced by attrition, not by attack.

As for doping I have no idea what Tour De France you are watching.
Guys are blowing off the back on one day and attacking the next day after an obvious blood transfusion over night. Wake up.
I've got to admit that I'm finally proud of the Schleck's for their big attack. But when you look at how utterly broken nearly everyone else was and Andy gets to the line he hardly even looks tired. Something to me looks amiss. He just seemed to be on another level than the past few days. This leads me to be suspicious of blood doping. But the tactic was they did it the night before instead of on the rest day when most would have done such a thing.
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Old 07-21-11, 09:52 PM   #19
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I've got to admit that I'm finally proud of the Schleck's for their big attack. But when you look at how utterly broken nearly everyone else was and Andy gets to the line he hardly even looks tired. Something to me looks amiss. He just seemed to be on another level than the past few days. This leads me to be suspicious of blood doping. But the tactic was they did it the night before instead of on the rest day when most would have done such a thing.
Andy lost 30 seconds in the last 1km and then almost wrecked because he couldn't pedal any more once he crested the hill, and then preceded to put his hands in his lap for like forever waiting for the others to finish in the tent. How is that not looking tired?
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Old 07-21-11, 11:20 PM   #20
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Andy lost 30 seconds in the last 1km and then almost wrecked because he couldn't pedal any more once he crested the hill, and then preceded to put his hands in his lap for like forever waiting for the others to finish in the tent. How is that not looking tired?
Not to mention he couldn't walk on his own power.
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Old 07-21-11, 11:26 PM   #21
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Andy lost 30 seconds in the last 1km and then almost wrecked because he couldn't pedal any more once he crested the hill, and then preceded to put his hands in his lap for like forever waiting for the others to finish in the tent. How is that not looking tired?
^

Contador finished pretty strong too. He only lost 3 minutes in the last km or so. When he crossed the finish line in 15th in his normal dancing on the pedals style he didn't look tired in the least. He obviously just stopped for a picnic and lost track of time. Not to mention Voeckler. He just likes folding up on his top tube. The joy of keeping yellow while watching kuddles struggle was the only thing that had him short of breath. I'm sure if he'd wanted to he could have sprinted off and caught Andy with ease. That's how fresh he looked.
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Old 07-22-11, 01:49 AM   #22
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I just find it curious after a year of scrutiny for doping in last years tour that the world's greatest climber seem to continually get dropped on the tougher climbs. Just a year ago no one could hold Contadors wheel and now he is struggling to hold the wheels of the a handful of riders. Just makes you wonder if doping was the key to the Contador successes..
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Old 07-22-11, 02:01 AM   #23
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Never assume the peloton is clean, that only leads to disappointment. There is significant doping going on.
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Old 07-22-11, 02:21 AM   #24
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I just find it curious after a year of scrutiny for doping in last years tour that the world's greatest climber seem to continually get dropped on the tougher climbs. Just a year ago no one could hold Contadors wheel and now he is struggling to hold the wheels of the a handful of riders. Just makes you wonder if doping was the key to the Contador successes..
Doping has been the key to most if not all GT winners success for many years. I've just read David Millar's book "Racing through the dark". He recounts a conversation with Tony Rominger when Rominger was at the end of his career and Millar was just starting out. I think we can all agree that Rominger was one of the very best - three Vueltas, one Giro, a KOM jersey at the Tour, the hour record - and it was in his opinion impossible to win the GTs without using EPO. The one day races yes, but no clean athlete could recover well enough to challenge the EPO users day after day in a three-week stage race. it seems likely that he knew what he was talking about.

I agree that most of the top contenders, including Contador, look as if things are more of a struggle this year. So it is possible that the testing regime is having an impact. Certainly Contador will be being very careful not to test positive given his circumstances at the moment.
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Old 07-22-11, 02:23 AM   #25
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Did it ever occur to anyone that Contador is struggling this year because of the many crashes he was involved in? There are other factors in play here.
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