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  1. #1
    Member grkeller's Avatar
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    Armstrong investigation

    AP reporting "Federal prosecutors close doping investigation of 7-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong" - details to follow
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    Member grkeller's Avatar
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    http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSto...ation-15509510

    Federal prosecutors closed their investigation of Lance Armstrong without charging him over allegations he used performance-enhancing drugs Friday, ending a nearly two-year effort aimed at examining whether a doping program was created to keep the seven-time Tour de France winner and his teammates running at the head of the pack.

  4. #4
    Senior Member sykerocker's Avatar
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    The "Lance Doped" crowd can shut up now.
    Syke

    "No wonder we keep testing positive in their bicycle races. Everyone looks like they're full of testosterone when they're surrounded by Frenchmen." ---Argus Hamilton

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    I'l happy to finally have this in the past ... as I'm sure Lance is as well. There's only one person who knows for sure, but there is apparently not enough evidence to go forward. In any case, he's innocent -- in the absence of not being proven guilty.

    I guess Contador is hoping Lance did not use up all the good luck ... we'll see on Monday.

  6. #6
    Juicy, Sweet Member ahsposo's Avatar
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    As a US taxpayer I want my money back.

    WTF were the Feds involved with this in the first place. I forget.

    Why don't they try to figure out where the $BILLIONS went in Iraq and Effed-up-istan.

    Who hires these idiots?
    Quote Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
    This reminds me why I never go into road...........thanks guys.

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    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    Can we get on with racing now? My gosh what a waste of time and taxpayer money. And Time Warner, will you please put USN back on in HD? I'm going to have a fit if I miss all the Giros. Thank you.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykerocker View Post
    The "Lance Doped" crowd can shut up now.
    I'm not shutting up. They couldn't build a case. Doesn't prove innocence in the least. Doesn't mean the money for the investigation was well-spent, either. But Lance doped. There, I said it.
    The linked article also notes that a couple of recent doping cases against athletes haven't yielded the hoped for results for the prosecutors. It's possible the feds felt that even a conviction wasn't worth the effort and expense if it failed to result in a slam-dunk, as the Bonds and Clemens trials have failed to do.
    Last edited by Picchio Special; 02-03-12 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member sykerocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
    I'm not shutting up. They couldn't build a case. Doesn't prove innocence in the least. Doesn't mean the money for the investigation was well-spent, either. But Lance doped. There, I said it.
    The linked article also notes that a couple of recent doping cases against athletes haven't yielded the hoped for results for the prosecutors. It's possible the feds felt that even a conviction wasn't worth the effort and expense if it failed to result in a slam-dunk, as the Bonds and Clemens trials have failed to do.
    Didn't think you would, but now you get to live with the legal concept of: NOT GUILTY!!! So you can keep spewing the useless innuendo, secure in the knowledge that a two year Federal investigation came up empty handed. Nice to know you know more than the Feds.
    Syke

    "No wonder we keep testing positive in their bicycle races. Everyone looks like they're full of testosterone when they're surrounded by Frenchmen." ---Argus Hamilton

  10. #10
    Randomhead
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykerocker View Post
    Didn't think you would, but now you get to live with the legal concept of: NOT GUILTY!!! So you can keep spewing the useless innuendo, secure in the knowledge that a two year Federal investigation came up empty handed. Nice to know you know more than the Feds.
    it's not useless innuendo, where would this forum be if it weren't for the threads that go, "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested"

    He wasn't really found innocent, they just decided to stop wasting money on it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kleinboogie View Post
    Can we get on with racing now? My gosh what a waste of time and taxpayer money. And Time Warner, will you please put USN back on in HD? I'm going to have a fit if I miss all the Giros. Thank you.

    This x10000000

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykerocker View Post
    Nice to know you know more than the Feds.
    Misses the point entirely. I have a certain standard for being convinced that someone committed a particular act that may be different from that of the legal system. That's as it should be. People beat raps. Investigations fail to build a strong enough case to convict guilty people. If we had Lance's blood parameters and analyzed them, we could know to a fair degree of certainty whether Lance doped, but this wouldn't lead to a conviction (or even doping sanction) even if his haematocrit was all over the map. If it went from 42 to 49 in the third week of a three-week stage race, it would be very strong evidence of doping, for example, but would not result in a testing "positive" or a criminal investigation. There's a difference between a warrantable assertion and a legal standard of proof in the context of a legal system that is based on the idea that it's better to let guilty people remain free than to punish the innocent. So your sarcastic comment about me knowing more than the feds is really a statement about your inability to distinguish apples from oranges.
    Last edited by Picchio Special; 02-03-12 at 04:48 PM.

  13. #13
    Squeaky Wheel woodway's Avatar
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  14. #14
    Senior Member
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    Incidentally, if Lance was convicted of - or admitted to - doping, I would be one of the first people to say it doesn't detract from his cycling legacy in the least and that he still earned every one of his Tour titles. He came back from cancer to crush the rest of the top cyclists in the world in the context of a cycling system that largely sanctioned doping. Every guy that could conceivably have beaten Lance was more than likely doped, too. So I am anything but a Lance hater. It's the hypocrisy and mean-spirited attempts to humiliate his detractors and ruin their reputations that I find unsavory and disappointing. I am happy to consider Lance an amazing, inspiring athlete who's life and accomplishments - like those of many complex people, consist of both light and shadow. It's the silly cultural need to create saints and demons that is so unnecessarily polarizing and does not allow for the complexity of human motives and behavior.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodway View Post
    And, there's always this guy. Probably wearing a bowler hat while typing.

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    I agree with pretty much everything you have posted here Picchio. You should see the other cycling forums going nuts with excuses. Armstrong bought the government is the main one! LOL.

    I can't wait to hear from the number one Armstrong hater Lemondfanforever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
    Incidentally, if Lance was convicted of - or admitted to - doping, I would be one of the first people to say it doesn't detract from his cycling legacy in the least and that he still earned every one of his Tour titles. He came back from cancer to crush the rest of the top cyclists in the world in the context of a cycling system that largely sanctioned doping. Every guy that could conceivably have beaten Lance was more than likely doped, too. So I am anything but a Lance hater. It's the hypocrisy and mean-spirited attempts to humiliate his detractors and ruin their reputations that I find unsavory and disappointing. I am happy to consider Lance an amazing, inspiring athlete who's life and accomplishments - like those of many complex people, consist of both light and shadow. It's the silly cultural need to create saints and demons that is so unnecessarily polarizing and does not allow for the complexity of human motives and behavior.
    Bingo.

    Worst case, if Armstrong used PEDs (and he probably did), he still won 7 straigth TdF's against riders who we KNOW were doping.

    And for this, he's the object of knucklehead-hate.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Jay68442's Avatar
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    Boy some haters must be mad as hell right now. Well it's time to move and enjoy the sport of cycling.
    If you look for the truth outside yourself, it gets farther and farther away. ~ Tung-Shan

  19. #19
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykerocker View Post
    The "Lance Doped" crowd can shut up now.
    Yes Virginia, there really is a Santa Claus.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Roadierookie's Avatar
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    I was hoping they would end up with nothing! Why would the government waste their time and money? I know there will always be a shadow of doubt around Lance but I am glad it is left at that! He has done so much for cycling interest in North America and for the cancer community. There will always be haters but why? Surely his performances were amazing and his dedication to training was unprecedented. And...he actually did something for a cause with his name. How many other stars can say that?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    it's not useless innuendo, where would this forum be if it weren't for the threads that go, "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested" "Lance doped" "most tested"

    He wasn't really found innocent, they just decided to stop wasting money on it.

    THIS x 1,000,000

    EVERYONE here who claims he "didnt dope" have pretty much agreed he did. They never said he wasnt guilty, they've just decided not to pursue the case any longer. People keep claiming"there's no proof", which is BS, there had to be some form of it, to allow it to go to a grand jury investigation, and progress within the judicial system. Betsy Andreau was really upset, The article also claims(the one i read), that the author felt that when you have ALOT of money, you can make some things go away. Thats what I think happened.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18hockey View Post
    I can't wait to hear from the number one Armstrong hater Lemondfanforever.
    I can.

    It'll just be a cut-and-paste job of any previous 50 or so posts. "Lance can't prove he didn't dope so therefore he must have."

  23. #23
    Senior Member sykerocker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    He wasn't really found innocent, they just decided to stop wasting money on it.
    He wasn't found guilty, they just decided to stop wasting money on it. Which means there was nothing worth prosecuting, by whoever's standards that 'worth' is valued at.

    Of course it'll never end. To the "Lance Doped" crowd, there has always been only one acceptable answer, and one acceptable conclusion. This wasn't it.

    Me? I'm an American, used to the American system of justice. You know, all that "innocent until proven guilty" stuff.
    Syke

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  24. #24
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    You know this makes me think back to my younger days as a recruit in MCRD San Diego. I was performing firewatch duty on another Platoons Squad Bay while they were on the Drill field. I had a very large mean green Drill Instructor inform me I assassinated John F Kennedy. His verdict seemed to be based on by home state being Texas. I am not sure how he got passed the 1967 birth date, but then Drill Instructors are not known for rational decisions. Any way Final drill last approximately an hour, and if properly motivated I am able to do bend and thrust on finger cues for just under an hour. That was one bored DI. Was not even his bay or platoon he was just waiting to talk to another DI.

    Life lesson I learned, life is not fair, and evidence is not required outside of a court of law.

    Incidentally that was the second time in my life John F Kennedy assassination was used for a valuable lesson. A few years earlier in CRIJ 101 Professor Barrio did in fact inform us he assassinated John F Kennedy. However as a class we failed to provide evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he did in fact do the deed. After he was mirandized he no longer wanted to discuss the assassination and we were unable to gain any further evidence to support his claim.

    Life lesson I learned, people run their mouths sometimes.

  25. #25
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    "As a US taxpayer I want my money back."


    Me too. One thing that will never be proven is that a call came from the White House ordering the dropping of the case. Errr, too many votes to be lost with this thing out front. At least some Justice Dept. jobs were created for several years.

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