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  1. #1
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    Cas Now Bans Ullrich For 2 Years

    Unreal! Posted on Yahoosports.com. He's done until 2013 & they also take away his Tour De Suisse title. Maybe Armstrong is not too far away?

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    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    Armstrong is very far away. If CAS took this long to find Ullrich guilty, than I figure by 2030, they might finally be able to convict Armstrong of something. What a bunch of bumbling beaurocratic boobs these guys are.

    LemondFan, I just hope your alive to see it, since it's all you live for....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    LemondFan, I just hope your alive to see it, since it's all you live for....

    seriously.....

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    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farby View Post
    seriously.....
    I mean, how he makes the connection between this Ullrich decision and Armstrong is beyond me, but I'm sure the provocateur, LemondFan, will show up soon and enlighten us!
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    Descends Like Avalanche HigherGround's Avatar
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    Can you imagine waiting until 2019 to get the final results of last weekend's Super Bowl? Welcome to the wonderful world of professional bicycle racing.
    The rider in my avatar is David Etxebarria, not me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    Armstrong is very far away. If CAS took this long to find Ullrich guilty, than I figure by 2030, they might finally be able to convict Armstrong of something. What a bunch of bumbling beaurocratic boobs these guys are.

    LemondFan, I just hope your alive to see it, since it's all you live for....
    Not at all, Im just thinking that now that theyve banned: Contador & Ullrich, the"feather in their cap" so to speak, could be an even bigger name like: Armstrong /Hamilton / etc cant be too far off? They feel they can keep going for years & years I guess. I was simply commenting that I think CAS/WADA must have their own agendas?
    Last edited by LemondFanForeve; 02-09-12 at 09:17 AM.

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    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    Well, CAS/WADA really are beginning to ruin the sport they oversee.

    They simply cannot do multiyear investigations that drag on and on forever and then pull titles away from riders who are long retired and that they earned 7 years ago. The fans are growing tired of it. As HigherGround said above, "Can you imagine waiting until 2019 to get the final results of last weekend's Super Bowl?". The answer is of course not! The cry would be long and loud should that ever happen.

    I'm certainly not pro drug, but the system as it is now is ridiculous. Somehow, they have to streamline the process. They have to put a statute of limitations on it, a time limit of some sort. I'm not sure what the people who work at WADA and CAS did before this, but they have managed to create a full time, lucrative living through these bodies, just like Congress! And just like Congress, they get nothing done in a timely fashion. They are ruining lives through there ineptitude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HigherGround View Post
    Can you imagine waiting until 2019 to get the final results of last weekend's Super Bowl? Welcome to the wonderful world of professional bicycle racing.
    I still have my hopes up, and the jury is not out yet on XLII either

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    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    Well, CAS/WADA really are beginning to ruin the sport they oversee.

    They simply cannot do multiyear investigations that drag on and on forever and then pull titles away from riders who are long retired and that they earned 7 years ago. The fans are growing tired of it. As HigherGround said above, "Can you imagine waiting until 2019 to get the final results of last weekend's Super Bowl?". The answer is of course not! The cry would be long and loud should that ever happen.

    I'm certainly not pro drug, but the system as it is now is ridiculous. Somehow, they have to streamline the process. They have to put a statute of limitations on it, a time limit of some sort. I'm not sure what the people who work at WADA and CAS did before this, but they have managed to create a full time, lucrative living through these bodies, just like Congress! And just like Congress, they get nothing done in a timely fashion. They are ruining lives through there ineptitude.
    Well said!
    This is completely ludicrous.
    They may as well go back and pull Fausto Coppi's results, since they have an admission there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    Well, CAS/WADA really are beginning to ruin the sport they oversee.

    They simply cannot do multiyear investigations that drag on and on forever and then pull titles away from riders who are long retired and that they earned 7 years ago. The fans are growing tired of it. As HigherGround said above, "Can you imagine waiting until 2019 to get the final results of last weekend's Super Bowl?". The answer is of course not! The cry would be long and loud should that ever happen.

    I'm certainly not pro drug, but the system as it is now is ridiculous. Somehow, they have to streamline the process. They have to put a statute of limitations on it, a time limit of some sort. I'm not sure what the people who work at WADA and CAS did before this, but they have managed to create a full time, lucrative living through these bodies, just like Congress! And just like Congress, they get nothing done in a timely fashion. They are ruining lives through there ineptitude.
    Good points. It doesnt seem too far out now, to say that these guys couldve helped the currenr climate, by simply saying "Yes I did it, and heres why". Probably wouldve made alot of this mess easier? But, when all you do is: deny deny deny, what do you expect these agencies to do? Maybe a sol is a great idea. I mean lets not excuse any of these guys for their involvement in where it is today? They too should get some of the blame. Unfortunately, thats not happening. Doesnt matter why they did it, theyre still cheaters. They used something to gain an unfair advantage over their peers, regardless of whether "at the time evwryone was doing it too", thats an excuse & doesnt make it right. Its still cheaating. How can you or I or folks here, respect someone whos cheated to gain success? I cant.

    Doping wasnt banned when guys like: Merckx/ Anquetil & the like were around. Now it is. People keep saying they want the sport to be clean, then complain when agencies try doing that. You cant have it both ways imo. Cant excuse some for doing it, then trash others for doing it, then get upset, when folks are trying to bust cheaters.
    Last edited by LemondFanForeve; 02-09-12 at 10:50 AM.

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    Senior Member telebianchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LemondFanForeve View Post
    Not at all, Im just thinking that now that theyve banned: Contador & Ullrich, the"feather in their cap" so to speak, could be an even bigger name like: Armstrong /Hamilton / etc cant be too far off? They feel they can keep going for years & years I guess. I was simply commenting that I think CAS/WADA must have their own agendas?
    Looking at it from a different perspective, maybe it's because they couldn't get Armstrong that they've gone ahead with easier (relative to Armstrong) cases. Think about it: they can ding Contador for minute quantities of a banned substance without definitively knowing whether it was intentional cheating by him or accidental contamination of something else he ingested. But they don't have enough to even bring a case against Armstrong. (FYI: Not having the evidence for a case against Armstrong is not the same as saying whether or not Armstrong doped.)
    May your tires or beer never be flat.

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LemondFanForeve View Post
    Good points. It doesnt seem too far out now, to say that these guys couldve helped the currenr climate, by simply saying "Yes I did it, and heres why". Probably wouldve made alot of this mess easier? But, when all you do is: deny deny deny, what do you expect these agencies to do? Maybe a sol is a great idea. I mean lets not excuse any of these guys for their involvement in where it is today? They too should get some of the blame. Unfortunately, thats not happening. Doesnt matter why they did it, theyre still cheaters. They used something to gain an unfair advantage over their peers, regardless of whether "at the time evwryone was doing it too", thats an excuse & doesnt make it right. Its still cheaating. How can you or I or folks here, respect someone whos cheated to gain success? I cant.

    Doping wasnt banned when guys like: Merckx/ Anquetil & the like were around. Now it is. People keep saying they want the sport to be clean, then complain when agencies try doing that. You cant have it both ways imo. Cant excuse some for doing it, then trash others for doing it, then get upset, when folks are trying to bust cheaters.
    Really, so just what did happen in hte 1969 Giro then? And does this mean that Anquetil now broke the Hour record twice?
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Really, so just what did happen in hte 1969 Giro then? And does this mean that Anquetil now broke the Hour record twice?
    Not sure, have any proof that doping was banned back then? Feel free to post any. If he cheated, & its known that he cheated, then he's broken no record(s), nor has 5 tdf titles in my opinion. Thats been my stance since the beginning. People here claim Merckx has said he doped? Then hes a cheater. Doesnt matter when, or who it was, if you doped & won & its found out later that you have? Then you're not only a cheater, but should have EVERY title stripped from you, why? If youve cheated even once, how do we know you didnt for all?

    PS, before anyone says it, yes, even if its Lemond(which Im still waiting for any credible proof he did, but we all know that doesnt exist).
    Last edited by LemondFanForeve; 02-09-12 at 12:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
    They may as well go back and pull Fausto Coppi's results, since they have an admission there.
    Yes they should, why? If theres an admission of doping, then what does that mean: HE CHEATED. Doesnt matter when it happened & by who, he still cheated. Making excuses for him due to when it was, doesnt change that fact, its as I said: an excuse & folks way to have it both ways, whenever talk of cleaning up the sport arises.

    Giacomo, these agencies could very well go back if they wanted to & strip titles from guys, no matter who/ when it was. Thats trying to have it both ways. You punish a few guys for it whove denied it(& gotten caught) & yet guys whove admitted to it, you allow them to walk, or keep their legacies intact, so you can pick & choose who you want/ dont want punished? Talk about hypocrisy. My opinion is, you start stripping guys from the past of their accomplishments, regardless of who it is? Watch how "suddenly" the sport becomes Alot cleaner. Or, you test EVERY SINGLE RIDER, before every stage & they cant ride til their test results are back. I bet half the field would be banned?
    Last edited by LemondFanForeve; 02-09-12 at 01:16 PM.

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LemondFanForeve View Post
    Not sure, have any proof that doping was banned back then? Feel free to post any. If he cheated, & its known that he cheated, then he's broken no record(s), nor has 5 tdf titles in my opinion. Thats been my stance since the beginning. People here claim Merckx has said he doped? Then hes a cheater. Doesnt matter when, or who it was, if you doped & won & its found out later that you have? Then you're not only a cheater, but should have EVERY title stripped from you, why? If youve cheated even once, how do we know you didnt for all?

    PS, before anyone says it, yes, even if its Lemond(which Im still waiting for any credible proof he did, but we all know that doesnt exist).
    God, you are ignorant. Merckx was disqualified while leading 1969 Giro because of a positive doping test in the Giro. Anquetil brok the hour record for a second time several years after the first time he broke it, but was so upset about the piss poor treatment he recieved while having to piss into a bottle with no concern for modesty or dignity that he stormed off.

    EDIT:

    Here is a link to a rather incomplete lsit regarding doping.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ses_in_cycling
    Last edited by Keith99; 02-09-12 at 02:33 PM.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

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    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    And here is the link specifically for Anquetil and the Hour record. It is highly doubtful that he did in fact dope as it was well known that any serious attempt at the Hour record was an hour in hell.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Anquetil

    In 1967, 11 years later, Anquetil again broke the hour record, with 47.493 km, but the record was disallowed because he refused to take the newly-introduced post-race doping test.[8] He objected to what he saw as the indignity of having to urinate in a tent in front of a crowded velodrome and said he would take the test later at his hotel. The international judge ruled against the idea and a scuffle ensued that involved Anquetil's manager, Raphaël Géminiani. Cycling reported:[9]
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

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    hopefully there is a statute of limitations on this sort of nonsense. Before sometime in the '70s, the were taking stimulants which basically did very little for you. That's what merckx was caught using

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    God, you are ignorant. Merckx was disqualified while leading 1969 Giro because of a positive doping test in the Giro. Anquetil brok the hour record for a second time several years after the first time he broke it, but was so upset about the piss poor treatment he recieved while having to piss into a bottle with no concern for modesty or dignity that he stormed off.

    EDIT:

    Here is a link to a rather incomplete lsit regarding doping.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ses_in_cycling
    And, "god" youve just contradicted yourself here. First you highlight a part, then ask me if I know that Anquetil apparently was doping(which the article never says he did), then you turn around and claim he wasnt? which is it? go back up and re-read what you wrote(2 posts up from this), you say "I highly doubt it", so you've contradicted yourself, as YOU yourself dont know if he did? Read the article...cites NOTHING on any drugs being banned, or that he took drugs right? all it says is, he refused to take the test, and he states he wouldve taken the test back at his hotel.

    As for Merckx, then he should get EVERY title stripped from him, why? if he did it in one race, then how do we know he didnt in every race?

    Also, then many folks(not just myself) are wrong about there being no banning of drugs during that time? I've seen several people claim it wasnt illegal @ the time, or they werent testing back then.

    Besides, quoting Wikipedia isnt very credible to yourt arguement
    Last edited by LemondFanForeve; 02-09-12 at 06:09 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member daxr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
    hopefully there is a statute of limitations on this sort of nonsense. Before sometime in the '70s, the were taking stimulants which basically did very little for you. That's what merckx was caught using
    Stimulants that did very little for you? You're aware that the methamphetamines of today were popularized for military use during WWII, and spread into sporting use shortly thereafter. The difficulty was that just enough might win you the race, but too much would wreck you for days or weeks - or kill you, in Simpson's case. Consider the "delicate health" of some of the champions of those days...

    Fignon is the most recent confessional I'm aware of - he talks about his experience with them in his autobiography.
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    Only in Lemondfanforeve's mind is the cycling "feather in the cap" not the top GC rider currently in cycling, but a guy who is retired and hasn't won anything of significance in almost six years.

    Anyone else shaking their head about the complete lack of knowledge of the history of cycling from a guy who is always touting a rider from the 80's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 18hockey View Post
    Only in Lemondfanforeve's mind is the cycling "feather in the cap" not the top GC rider currently in cycling, but a guy who is retired and hasn't won anything of significance in almost six years.

    Anyone else shaking their head about the complete lack of knowledge of the history of cycling from a guy who is always touting a rider from the 80's?
    It might be worse than you imagine. The same information about Merckx and others was brought up to him more than once in the last year and he already forgot it.

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    Senior Member xfimpg's Avatar
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    I would agree that investigations need to go on until test results start coming back clean ALWAYS. Just one rider getting caught is enough to whip up the bloodhounds (forgive the pun) into a frenzy.

    As for continuing to look for ways to prosecute Armstrong, they likely have some information on him but obviously not enough to prosecute. The guy won 7 titles; if he did cheat, that would be an enormous coup de grace for the CAS or other. You also have these guys off Wallstreet stealing from the shareholders and walking away with 500+ million dollar fortunes (amounts we KNOW about), and no one prosecutes them.

    I don't know; part of me likes to see justice where it can be found. Apparently he (LA) did fail a test in 1999 or something like that, so that raised suspicion. Time will tell. If the riders simply didn't dope, these organizations would disappear into nothingness and we could watch fair races again.
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    Senior Member daxr's Avatar
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    ...but anyway, thinking about Ullrich, regardless of the ruling he was always one to make a great race. I didn't see the Tour he won, but 2003 is my all-time favorite - the closest thing to a bare-knuckles lay-it-all-on the-line Tour to the bitter end. It wasn't Armstrong that made it so riveting, but the challenge from Ullrich and the others that pushed him to one of his best performances. Most of his other tour wins were snooze-fests.

    I think about that rivalry when I ride myself - what was Armstrong without Ullrich or his rivals? Not especially great or interesting. Who wants to see a guy win without really trying hard? So the guy in second place can make the race as much as the guy who wins, and I enjoy cycling and racing more that way - if you can't win, you can at least make sure the guys in front of you are busting their asses and digging deep to stay up there.
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  24. #24
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    enjoy your new career jan and don't look back at the bloodhounds. it was always more exciting when you were lining up at the start. peace and best wishes.

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    Please play the above video while you read my comment below. It just comes out better.

    I have a feeling that if The Cirque du Soleil are paying attention to news in the cycling world, there will be a major talent recruiting effort targetted at the CAS given the number of clowns that work there. This should not have taken 5 years to resolve.
    Last edited by xfimpg; 02-10-12 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Edited purely for entertainment purposes.
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