Paul Barnard

He learned quite a bit.

bellweatherman

Yeah Armstrong sure did learn alot, especially when he hired Dr. Ferrari to help him "train" right.

Lance Armstrong, Dr. Ferrari doping ring -
https://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...oping-products

reef58

I suspect he knew of Ped's prior to winning the tour. You act like he was the only person with access to supplements. They all took them . Armstrong was better in the TDF. Bottom line.

Keith99

But none of these claimed to be the poster boy fro riding clean like Lance did.

Also the door was opened for Lance ot win his first TDF becaause of the Festina scandal which decimated the Peloton. Without that door being opened it is very likely he never would have won a TDF. He won that year against a weak field with a weak team. (Before 1999 there was only two other times when there was not a previous winner in in hte TDF, and that is counting the very first TDF as one of the 2. In 1999 I'm pretty sure there was just one previous podium finisher and that for 3rd). If there had been a strong field his first win would have been doubtful. (Heck he might not have even gotten the chance, a large part of getting the chance may well have been that the field was weak and that meant a excellent chance of at least doing well enough to pay back the sponsors).

Armstong in many ways got his chance becaseu of drug crackdowns and claims to be mister clean. If he is not it does more to destroy his image than for many other riders.

Huge contrast to say Anquetil who openly mocked the idea that riders did not use drugs.

SwampDude

When I stated I have no strongly held theory about Armstrong's innocence, I was being honest. If I am guilty of anything, it is naiveté, not an attempt to mislead anyone. I have done no "research". I am writing from recall covering years of the Armstrong controversy. Your suggestion that I have come here under the "guise" of seeking information in order to support Armstrong is plain silly.

Frankly, I really don't care enough about the topic to spar with someone who is obviously emotionally invested in it. Thus, I accept your accusations as being better informed than my personal recollections.

telebianchi

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lance-...y.html?hpid=z2

bellweatherman

Nonsense. I never stated that Armstrong acted alone in his EPO usage. In fact, I already stated early on that Armstrong's teammates were doping heavily with EPO among other drugs. You act like Armstrong won fair and square. Umm, no he didn't. He cheated. I don't care if a lot of his competitors did too. Armstrong cheated and he should be brought to justice like all the other criminals.

Armstrong pushed other teammates to use EPO -
https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ong/index.html

reef58

Was there a law broken, or just rules violations? I really am not sure. I suspect in the 1990's PEDs were not illegal, but I am unsure.

Keep in mind cheating may not be a criminal offense. Also keep in mind if there is something criminal they will need evidence. They cannot convict based on a disgruntled internet forum poster's opinion.

reef58

Oh and who was the winner of the 2004 Tour? Jan doped, Basso doped, Vino, Mayo. Who is the winner?

reef58

Wow Bell looks like you may get your wishes taken care of!

luxroadie

SO the world is about to come to terms with an unknown fact - Lance did what pretty much everyone else did for so many years (doped - which can mean a lot of things).

I'm pretty tired of it all. Tired of Lance, tired of the folks who hate him. Look they all doped. Back in the day Eddy Merckx doped, Antiquel acknowledged he doped, Simpson died in the freakin TdF from dope. They all did, do, will.

Why does it matter? Think Baseball is clean? Basketball? Golf?

Face it - it is like Whack a Mole - knock it down here and it springs up there.

AND ENOUGH ABOUT THE MOST TESTED RIDER - jeez isn't anyone creative? Micro dose - it wasn't discovered in 2012 -- it was a medical concept back in the 40's (family has some doctors so that is as far back as I can comment). Lance slept in hyperbaric chambers to mimic altitude training - think he didn't know a doc who knew something about microdosing? Think a cancer patient isn't familiar with blood values and testing?

AND as for the crap about the wins, tests after stages - come on. When your friend stole the test from the teacher's desk the week before the final, and you spent the weekend memorizing all of the right answers, were you going to get caught cheating by a teacher watching you do it on the "big day". No - you cheat in advance!!! Fools why test your luck when you know it will be tested!!

Lance did what every one else did. Small doses of chemicals to improve blood values right up to 'detectable limits'. Then you bag the blood. Come the tour all you do is give yourself a top up on rest day. One liter of 'healthy blood' will flush the dead red blood cells, and with some dilution your hemocrit will come in just fine, no chemicals necessary. Just don't F'IT'UP like Vino and mix your bag up with your buddy.

How can anyone continue to argue the most tested sportsman in the world didn't do what everyone else did?

And at the end of the day - why does it matter? Do you think any less of the Cannibal? Did Antiquel vs. Poulidor become "less epic" with time and discovery?

tblendell

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports...PaV_story.html

Rx Rider

wow . . .wow . . .hmmmm . . . wow
good timing.
I don't really care that much about the cheating. I was a rennsport fan long before pro cycling and the expectation always has been to cheat. every sanctioning body in motorsport would compile a list of racing regulations and every year the teams would dissect the rules for a loophole, to cheat. but when the teams were caught cheating they never pulled an "Armstrong". they accepted the punishment and went right back to trying to cheat, I mean race.

Fat Boy

Very good, but sad post.

SwampDude

The USADA's pursuit of Armstrong seems like a waste of time and taxpayer money (USDA is funded primarily by federal grants). At a time when government deficits are looming as a threat to the USA's financial health, funding organizations like this one can't pass the test as 'essential' or even 'important' for national interests.

If athletes use PEDs in any sport, what business is it of the federal government? Regulation of such matters should be managed by the same association or business organization that oversees other aspects of the sport.

Armstrong may be exposed as a doper and stripped of his TdF medals. He may be barred from all future sports competition. He may be humiliated throughout the world by revelations of misconduct. After the dust settles, how has federal government involvement (funding) in this matter improved society in a meaningful way? I suggest it has not.

thplmn72

what's the point in busting him now.. He's still gonna be rich and famous I don't get it

canam73

If nothing else it theoretically discourages current riders from doping as it shows just because you might get away with it now you are never completely out of the woods. But again, theoretically.

thplmn72

I guess the other countries are just sore losers cause if you ask me there was a lot of questionable judges during the Olympics in bejing

Rx Rider

no offense but there's been a lot of questionable judging in the olympics for the last . . . forever.

and the olympics and pro cycling aren't really apples and apples.

reef58

No one should be above the rules.

LemondFanForeve

s-p-o-t o-n!!!!

LemondFanForeve

Yeah, but he's "rich" for how much longer? the govt can easily drag this out for years, and down the road, continue bringing up charges against him, to get him to pay money to defend himself. He's now banned from competition, that means he has no $$$ coming in. If he's found to be guilty(which it's pointing to), then the govt and sponsors can(and probably WILL) go after him to recoup some of his "riches". Trek can sue him, and so forth. That also brings into question the 'Livestrong" foundation....that as a whole, will crumble too.

Bottom line: I dont think you see the magnitude of the earthquake this has(and will) caused.

LemondFanForeve

This.

SwampDude

I agree, theoretically. However, why can't the sport regulate itself without government-funded intervention? If Armtrong was guilty, the TdF or world cycling association should be responsible for catching and punishing him.

I say if an athlete violates the rules of his sport, he/she should be exposed and appropriately sanctioned. This is not, however, something I want taxpayer money spent on.

A

thplmn72

But he's retired so not to sound ignorant but who cares. my son came in second place to a kid that lied about his age to win a tournament and I told my son if you cheat to get that trophy it's just a plastic cup. It's like when.. correct me if I'm wrong, ladanium tomlinson was stripped of his heisman did it really affect him no he's still running around the t.v. during football season.Or the other guy from the ravens you know who involved in a double homicide punish him, no lets put him on a video game and have him prance up and down the field like a hero Why make an example out of a bike rider if you ever read his life history it's like the guy was freakishly built to ride bikes maybe he is that good