Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Professional Cycling For the Fans (http://www.bikeforums.net/professional-cycling-fans/)
-   -   How incompetent is the USADA? (http://www.bikeforums.net/professional-cycling-fans/828856-how-incompetent-usada.html)

Commodus 02-07-13 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallo (Post 15248120)
sorry bro you did not answer the question
...

Quote:

"As mystifying as USADA's election to proceed at this date and in this manner may be...
DRAW A TIMELINE. If you are AWARE of the events, and place them in order, you will why they proceeded at this DATE. The question is WHEN. The MANNER is governed by WADA procedure. The WHY is governed by the USADA mandate.

Judge Sparks proved to be ignorant of both WADA and USADA mandates and procedure, as well as the timeline of events that led to USADAs involvement. I don't know how to be more clear.

dbf73 02-07-13 02:31 PM

it seems you think the "mandate" justifies the means. USADA isn't all that different than LA in that respect

Gallo 02-07-13 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15248183)
DRAW A TIMELINE. If you are AWARE of the events, and place them in order, you will why they proceeded at this DATE. The question is WHEN. The MANNER is governed by WADA procedure. The WHY is governed by the USADA mandate.

Judge Sparks proved to be ignorant of both WADA and USADA mandates and procedure, as well as the timeline of events that led to USADAs involvement. I don't know how to be more clear.

Provide to information that a timeline of events and how it is relevant to any of my questions

Please provide a link to the "mandates" of USADA (WADA rules regulations and otherwise do not apply other than as support for USADA. WADA was not the agency being questioned by the Armstrong team USADA was) I see no "mandates" on their website

When, how and by whom was it proven and or proved that Judge Sparks was ignorant of anything regarding this decision. Please provide links

If this is as clear as you can be then so be it. You need not bother to respond.

Cat4Lifer 02-07-13 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallo (Post 15246242)
I would suggest you read the linked document below including the footnotes. I would disagree that the court validated anything other than upholding the process of arbitration in place and US Courts position to stay out of the way and not rule on the matter. If you read the document Judge Sparks has unkind comments and statements toward both parties.

Footnote38

lndeed, it is hard to imagine a situation more illustrative of Judge Posner's famous words, that "there can be
few less suitable bodies than the federal courts for determining the eligibility, or the procedures for determining the
eligibility, of athletes to participate in the Olympic Games." Michels v. US. Olympic Comm., 741 F.2d 155, 159 (7th
Cir. 1984) (Posner, J., concurring). By the same token, this Court simply has no business telling national and
international amateur athletic organizations how to regulate their respective sports.

While all this is moot as it has moved to a different level. I wish the US Courts as a whole would consistently show the wisdom that Judge Sparks did regarding this case.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/103360421/Memorandum-Opinion

http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/20...699ab7c085.jpg

Athens80 02-07-13 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallo (Post 15248120)
How many tiles and wins have been stripped besides Lance from cyclists during the time period in question that are associated with this investigation?

How many cyclists that are associated with this investigation admitted they were doping during the time period in question to USADA?

How many other athletes in the history of sport have been stripped of any title for doping with no physical evidence.

I'm surprised you didn't read this in October and November when it was widely reported. Here's one list that Google quickly turned up:

[TABLE="width: 453"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]who[/TD]
[TD]Event[stage][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2000[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Circuit Franco-Belge [2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Redlands Bicycle Classic[6][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Sea Otter Classic[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Setmana Catalana de Ciclisme[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]National Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[11][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Giro d’Italia[8][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[7][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]BARRY[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[15][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]GP Ouest France – Plouay[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[17][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[19][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Commodus 02-08-13 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallo (Post 15248386)
Provide to information that a timeline of events and how it is relevant to any of my questions

Please provide a link to the "mandates" of USADA (WADA rules regulations and otherwise do not apply other than as support for USADA. WADA was not the agency being questioned by the Armstrong team USADA was) I see no "mandates" on their website

When, how and by whom was it proven and or proved that Judge Sparks was ignorant of anything regarding this decision. Please provide links

If this is as clear as you can be then so be it. You need not bother to respond.

if you try a bit, you can probably figure out how to work google all on your own

Commodus 02-08-13 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbf73 (Post 15248279)
it seems you think the "mandate" justifies the means. USADA isn't all that different than LA in that respect

Quote:

[h=2]man·date[/h] [man-deyt] Show IPA noun, verb, man·dat·ed, man·dat·ing.
noun 1. a command or authorization to act in a particular way on a public issue given by the electorate to its representative: The president had a clear mandate to end the war.


2. a command from a superior court or official to a lower one.


3. an authoritative order or command: a royal mandate.

4. (in the League of Nations) a commission given to a nation to administer the government and affairs of a former Turkish territory or German colony.

5. a mandated territory or colony.


literacy is important in so many areas of life

Cat4Lifer 02-08-13 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Athens80 (Post 15249574)
I'm surprised you didn't read this in October and November when it was widely reported. Here's one list that Google quickly turned up:

[TABLE="width: 453"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]who[/TD]
[TD]Event[stage][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2000[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Circuit Franco-Belge [2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Redlands Bicycle Classic[6][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Sea Otter Classic[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Setmana Catalana de Ciclisme[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]National Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[11][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Giro d’Italia[8][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[7][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]BARRY[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[15][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]GP Ouest France – Plouay[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[17][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[19][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So Hincapie is still the only "American" winner of Ghent-Wevelgem (2001) and the only American to Podium in Paris-Roubaix (2005)? Whew!

dbf73 02-08-13 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15251153)
literacy is important in so many areas of life

so is civil non-ad hominem discourse

see also the definition for pontificate

Cat4Lifer 02-08-13 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15251153)
literacy is important in so many areas of life

and this from a guy who says a lie isn't a lie if made by the Andreus. lol

Commodus 02-08-13 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer (Post 15251681)
and this from a guy who says a lie isn't a lie if made by the Andreus. lol

there it is again...

Cat4Lifer 02-08-13 01:26 PM

and again...
 
At first he was like:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15212303)
uh...so he never actually said what you insist he said, but because you insist he said it, he's a liar. rrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhhttttttt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15213297)
Oh c'mon lifer, if you'd like to debate the matter do so. You don't have to hide behind not-so-subtle swipes eh? Well, unless your argument is full of crap and that's all you have...

but then he was like:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15213352)
Well this is certainlyan impressive response.

:lol:

Commodus 02-08-13 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer (Post 15251880)
At first he was like:

but then he was like:

:lol:

you said something that was stupid, and got mad because I said so. and then you said something that wasn't, and you're mad because I said so.

that's how discussions are supposed to go. i don't judge the poster, i judge the post.

Cat4Lifer 02-08-13 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15251938)
you said something that was stupid

This from the genius who said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15211574)
Well it's pretty obvious that doping in Eddy's era had minimal effect.


Commodus 02-08-13 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer (Post 15252359)
This from the genius who said:

you really want the debate the effect of amphetamine and steroids relative to EPO? perhaps I should revise my policy of not judging the poster.

Cat4Lifer 02-08-13 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodus (Post 15252486)
you really want the debate the effect of amphetamine and steroids relative to EPO? perhaps I should revise my policy of not judging the poster.

Oh no, the genius who said doping had minimal effect in Eddy's era might revise his policy of not judging the poster! :lol:

CaDan 02-09-13 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamarichris (Post 15169723)
The beauty of the internet is our words are preserved. The ugliness of the internet is that sockpuppets like this Cadan create profiles to denounce Lemond, the USADA, and make statements that all racers dope, then they just vanish. This clod's post history reads like one of Lance's legal/PR team.

Oh, hi.

I drop by occasionally, but Minnesota winters tend to decrease my interest in cycling.

Would you like to call me some more names?

Athens80 02-09-13 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaDan (Post 15254320)
Would you like to call me some more names?

The thread started with a certain tone when the second word of your post was "incompetent."

Commodus 02-09-13 10:07 PM

Terrible. Try it again, there's material there. Intimate that they were all blood doping. It's true they could have been. Hey I am wrong more than I am right believe me. I was a huge fan of lance.

Zinger 12-05-13 04:00 PM

USADA has developed an image and perception of corruption problem in boxing. There is an obvious incompetence problem in that "Olympic testing" in boxing isn't really because it only lasts 10 weeks prior to fight time and the testing procedure itself is lacking in being as comprehensive as that of VADA which is quickly becoming the favorite PED controls organization of many of the fighters who want to fight clean but tends to be shunned by unscrupulous promoters. There are also rumors abound about USADA collusion with one of the boxing promoters.

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...t-didnt-happen

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...ement-part-one

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...ent---part-two


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:54 PM.