Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-07-13, 02:07 PM   #51
Commodus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
sorry bro you did not answer the question
...
Quote:
"As mystifying as USADA's election to proceed at this date and in this manner may be...
DRAW A TIMELINE. If you are AWARE of the events, and place them in order, you will why they proceeded at this DATE. The question is WHEN. The MANNER is governed by WADA procedure. The WHY is governed by the USADA mandate.

Judge Sparks proved to be ignorant of both WADA and USADA mandates and procedure, as well as the timeline of events that led to USADAs involvement. I don't know how to be more clear.
Commodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-13, 02:31 PM   #52
dbf73
TFO
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Plymouth, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
it seems you think the "mandate" justifies the means. USADA isn't all that different than LA in that respect
dbf73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-13, 03:01 PM   #53
Gallo
Senior Member
 
Gallo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: San Diego CA
Bikes: 2008 Wilier Motorolio Specialized Stumpjumper Hardtail 1986 Paramount 2014 Pivot Mach 429c
Posts: 615
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
DRAW A TIMELINE. If you are AWARE of the events, and place them in order, you will why they proceeded at this DATE. The question is WHEN. The MANNER is governed by WADA procedure. The WHY is governed by the USADA mandate.

Judge Sparks proved to be ignorant of both WADA and USADA mandates and procedure, as well as the timeline of events that led to USADAs involvement. I don't know how to be more clear.
Provide to information that a timeline of events and how it is relevant to any of my questions

Please provide a link to the "mandates" of USADA (WADA rules regulations and otherwise do not apply other than as support for USADA. WADA was not the agency being questioned by the Armstrong team USADA was) I see no "mandates" on their website

When, how and by whom was it proven and or proved that Judge Sparks was ignorant of anything regarding this decision. Please provide links

If this is as clear as you can be then so be it. You need not bother to respond.
Gallo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-13, 03:39 PM   #54
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
I would suggest you read the linked document below including the footnotes. I would disagree that the court validated anything other than upholding the process of arbitration in place and US Courts position to stay out of the way and not rule on the matter. If you read the document Judge Sparks has unkind comments and statements toward both parties.

Footnote38

lndeed, it is hard to imagine a situation more illustrative of Judge Posner's famous words, that "there can be
few less suitable bodies than the federal courts for determining the eligibility, or the procedures for determining the
eligibility, of athletes to participate in the Olympic Games." Michels v. US. Olympic Comm., 741 F.2d 155, 159 (7th
Cir. 1984) (Posner, J., concurring). By the same token, this Court simply has no business telling national and
international amateur athletic organizations how to regulate their respective sports.

While all this is moot as it has moved to a different level. I wish the US Courts as a whole would consistently show the wisdom that Judge Sparks did regarding this case.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/103360421/Memorandum-Opinion
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-13, 08:46 PM   #55
Athens80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
How many tiles and wins have been stripped besides Lance from cyclists during the time period in question that are associated with this investigation?

How many cyclists that are associated with this investigation admitted they were doping during the time period in question to USADA?

How many other athletes in the history of sport have been stripped of any title for doping with no physical evidence.
I'm surprised you didn't read this in October and November when it was widely reported. Here's one list that Google quickly turned up:

[TABLE="width: 453"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]who[/TD]
[TD]Event[stage][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2000[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Circuit Franco-Belge [2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Redlands Bicycle Classic[6][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Sea Otter Classic[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Setmana Catalana de Ciclisme[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]National Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[11][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Giro d’Italia[8][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[7][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]BARRY[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[15][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]GP Ouest France – Plouay[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[17][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[19][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Athens80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 10:17 AM   #56
Commodus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
Provide to information that a timeline of events and how it is relevant to any of my questions

Please provide a link to the "mandates" of USADA (WADA rules regulations and otherwise do not apply other than as support for USADA. WADA was not the agency being questioned by the Armstrong team USADA was) I see no "mandates" on their website

When, how and by whom was it proven and or proved that Judge Sparks was ignorant of anything regarding this decision. Please provide links

If this is as clear as you can be then so be it. You need not bother to respond.
if you try a bit, you can probably figure out how to work google all on your own
Commodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 10:18 AM   #57
Commodus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbf73 View Post
it seems you think the "mandate" justifies the means. USADA isn't all that different than LA in that respect
Quote:
[h=2]man·date[/h] [man-deyt] Show IPA noun, verb, man·dat·ed, man·dat·ing.
noun 1. a command or authorization to act in a particular way on a public issue given by the electorate to its representative: The president had a clear mandate to end the war.


2. a command from a superior court or official to a lower one.


3. an authoritative order or command: a royal mandate.

4. (in the League of Nations) a commission given to a nation to administer the government and affairs of a former Turkish territory or German colony.

5. a mandated territory or colony.


literacy is important in so many areas of life
Commodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 12:21 PM   #58
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
I'm surprised you didn't read this in October and November when it was widely reported. Here's one list that Google quickly turned up:

[TABLE="width: 453"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]who[/TD]
[TD]Event[stage][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1999[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2000[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Circuit Franco-Belge [2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Redlands Bicycle Classic[6][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2001[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Sea Otter Classic[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2002[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Route du Sud [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Setmana Catalana de Ciclisme[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]National Championship[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2004[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[11][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour de Georgia[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Giro d’Italia[8][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[7][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[1][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]BARRY[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[15][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[4][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Deutschland Tour[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2005[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]GP Ouest France – Plouay[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[2][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]HINCAPIE[/TD]
[TD]Tour of California[5][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[p][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]ZABRISKIE[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[3][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Dauphiné Libéré[GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Tour of Austria [GC][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2006[/TD]
[TD]DANIELSON[/TD]
[TD]Vuelta a España[17][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2007[/TD]
[TD]LEIPHEIMER[/TD]
[TD]Tour de France[19][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
So Hincapie is still the only "American" winner of Ghent-Wevelgem (2001) and the only American to Podium in Paris-Roubaix (2005)? Whew!
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 12:29 PM   #59
dbf73
TFO
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Plymouth, MN
Bikes:
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
literacy is important in so many areas of life
so is civil non-ad hominem discourse

see also the definition for pontificate

Last edited by dbf73; 02-08-13 at 12:32 PM.
dbf73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 12:34 PM   #60
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
literacy is important in so many areas of life
and this from a guy who says a lie isn't a lie if made by the Andreus. lol
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 01:01 PM   #61
Commodus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
and this from a guy who says a lie isn't a lie if made by the Andreus. lol
there it is again...
Commodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 01:26 PM   #62
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
and again...

At first he was like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
uh...so he never actually said what you insist he said, but because you insist he said it, he's a liar. rrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhhttttttt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
Oh c'mon lifer, if you'd like to debate the matter do so. You don't have to hide behind not-so-subtle swipes eh? Well, unless your argument is full of crap and that's all you have...
but then he was like:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
Well this is certainlyan impressive response.
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 01:45 PM   #63
Commodus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
At first he was like:

but then he was like:

you said something that was stupid, and got mad because I said so. and then you said something that wasn't, and you're mad because I said so.

that's how discussions are supposed to go. i don't judge the poster, i judge the post.
Commodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 03:46 PM   #64
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
you said something that was stupid
This from the genius who said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
Well it's pretty obvious that doping in Eddy's era had minimal effect.
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 04:22 PM   #65
Commodus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
This from the genius who said:
you really want the debate the effect of amphetamine and steroids relative to EPO? perhaps I should revise my policy of not judging the poster.
Commodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-13, 04:40 PM   #66
Cat4Lifer
Velo Club La Grange
 
Cat4Lifer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MDR, CA
Bikes:
Posts: 1,215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
you really want the debate the effect of amphetamine and steroids relative to EPO? perhaps I should revise my policy of not judging the poster.
Oh no, the genius who said doping had minimal effect in Eddy's era might revise his policy of not judging the poster!
Cat4Lifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-13, 09:18 AM   #67
CaDan
Lanterne Rouge
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: 2004 Giant Cypress
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
The beauty of the internet is our words are preserved. The ugliness of the internet is that sockpuppets like this Cadan create profiles to denounce Lemond, the USADA, and make statements that all racers dope, then they just vanish. This clod's post history reads like one of Lance's legal/PR team.
Oh, hi.

I drop by occasionally, but Minnesota winters tend to decrease my interest in cycling.

Would you like to call me some more names?
CaDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-13, 09:36 AM   #68
Athens80
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaDan View Post
Would you like to call me some more names?
The thread started with a certain tone when the second word of your post was "incompetent."
Athens80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-13, 10:07 PM   #69
Commodus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Burnaby, BC
Bikes:
Posts: 4,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Terrible. Try it again, there's material there. Intimate that they were all blood doping. It's true they could have been. Hey I am wrong more than I am right believe me. I was a huge fan of lance.
Commodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-13, 04:00 PM   #70
Zinger
Trek 500 Kid
 
Zinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spokane WA
Bikes: '83 Trek 970 road --- '86 Trek 500 road
Posts: 2,516
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
USADA has developed an image and perception of corruption problem in boxing. There is an obvious incompetence problem in that "Olympic testing" in boxing isn't really because it only lasts 10 weeks prior to fight time and the testing procedure itself is lacking in being as comprehensive as that of VADA which is quickly becoming the favorite PED controls organization of many of the fighters who want to fight clean but tends to be shunned by unscrupulous promoters. There are also rumors abound about USADA collusion with one of the boxing promoters.

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...t-didnt-happen

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...ement-part-one

http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...ent---part-two

Last edited by Zinger; 12-05-13 at 04:07 PM.
Zinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:20 AM.