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  1. #51
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
    sorry bro you did not answer the question
    ...
    "As mystifying as USADA's election to proceed at this date and in this manner may be...
    DRAW A TIMELINE. If you are AWARE of the events, and place them in order, you will why they proceeded at this DATE. The question is WHEN. The MANNER is governed by WADA procedure. The WHY is governed by the USADA mandate.

    Judge Sparks proved to be ignorant of both WADA and USADA mandates and procedure, as well as the timeline of events that led to USADAs involvement. I don't know how to be more clear.

  2. #52
    TFO
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    it seems you think the "mandate" justifies the means. USADA isn't all that different than LA in that respect
    Doug

  3. #53
    Senior Member Gallo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    DRAW A TIMELINE. If you are AWARE of the events, and place them in order, you will why they proceeded at this DATE. The question is WHEN. The MANNER is governed by WADA procedure. The WHY is governed by the USADA mandate.

    Judge Sparks proved to be ignorant of both WADA and USADA mandates and procedure, as well as the timeline of events that led to USADAs involvement. I don't know how to be more clear.
    Provide to information that a timeline of events and how it is relevant to any of my questions

    Please provide a link to the "mandates" of USADA (WADA rules regulations and otherwise do not apply other than as support for USADA. WADA was not the agency being questioned by the Armstrong team USADA was) I see no "mandates" on their website

    When, how and by whom was it proven and or proved that Judge Sparks was ignorant of anything regarding this decision. Please provide links

    If this is as clear as you can be then so be it. You need not bother to respond.
    "Are you finished and satisfied with the thread up to this point? If so, if you don't mind, I'm inclined to close it now, the quality posts have dwindled - it's circling the bowl now." BillyD

    I can't climb and do not sprint well so I over compensate with bad form and lack of endurance

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  4. #54
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
    I would suggest you read the linked document below including the footnotes. I would disagree that the court validated anything other than upholding the process of arbitration in place and US Courts position to stay out of the way and not rule on the matter. If you read the document Judge Sparks has unkind comments and statements toward both parties.

    Footnote38

    lndeed, it is hard to imagine a situation more illustrative of Judge Posner's famous words, that "there can be
    few less suitable bodies than the federal courts for determining the eligibility, or the procedures for determining the
    eligibility, of athletes to participate in the Olympic Games." Michels v. US. Olympic Comm., 741 F.2d 155, 159 (7th
    Cir. 1984) (Posner, J., concurring). By the same token, this Court simply has no business telling national and
    international amateur athletic organizations how to regulate their respective sports.

    While all this is moot as it has moved to a different level. I wish the US Courts as a whole would consistently show the wisdom that Judge Sparks did regarding this case.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/103360421/Memorandum-Opinion

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
    How many tiles and wins have been stripped besides Lance from cyclists during the time period in question that are associated with this investigation?

    How many cyclists that are associated with this investigation admitted they were doping during the time period in question to USADA?

    How many other athletes in the history of sport have been stripped of any title for doping with no physical evidence.
    I'm surprised you didn't read this in October and November when it was widely reported. Here's one list that Google quickly turned up:

    who Event[stage]
    1999 LEIPHEIMER Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[3]
    1999 LEIPHEIMER Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[5]
    2000 LEIPHEIMER Circuit Franco-Belge [2]
    2001 LEIPHEIMER Redlands Bicycle Classic[6]
    2001 LEIPHEIMER Sea Otter Classic[1]
    2002 LEIPHEIMER Route du Sud [3]
    2002 LEIPHEIMER Route du Sud [GC]
    2004 LEIPHEIMER Setmana Catalana de Ciclisme[4]
    2004 ZABRISKIE National Championship
    2004 ZABRISKIE Vuelta a España[11]
    2005 HINCAPIE Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne
    2005 DANIELSON Tour de Georgia[5]
    2005 DANIELSON Tour de Georgia[GC]
    2005 ZABRISKIE Giro d’Italia[8]
    2005 HINCAPIE Dauphiné Libéré[p]
    2005 HINCAPIE Dauphiné Libéré[7]
    2005 ZABRISKIE Tour de France[1]
    2005 BARRY Tour of Austria [5]
    2005 HINCAPIE Tour de France[15]
    2005 LEIPHEIMER Deutschland Tour[4]
    2005 LEIPHEIMER Deutschland Tour[GC]
    2005 HINCAPIE GP Ouest France – Plouay
    2006 LEIPHEIMER Tour of California[p]
    2006 HINCAPIE Tour of California[2]
    2006 HINCAPIE Tour of California[5]
    2006 ZABRISKIE Dauphiné Libéré[p]
    2006 ZABRISKIE Dauphiné Libéré[3]
    2006 LEIPHEIMER Dauphiné Libéré[GC]
    2006 DANIELSON Tour of Austria [GC]
    2006 DANIELSON Vuelta a España[17]
    2007 LEIPHEIMER Tour de France[19]

  6. #56
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallo View Post
    Provide to information that a timeline of events and how it is relevant to any of my questions

    Please provide a link to the "mandates" of USADA (WADA rules regulations and otherwise do not apply other than as support for USADA. WADA was not the agency being questioned by the Armstrong team USADA was) I see no "mandates" on their website

    When, how and by whom was it proven and or proved that Judge Sparks was ignorant of anything regarding this decision. Please provide links

    If this is as clear as you can be then so be it. You need not bother to respond.
    if you try a bit, you can probably figure out how to work google all on your own

  7. #57
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbf73 View Post
    it seems you think the "mandate" justifies the means. USADA isn't all that different than LA in that respect
    man·date

    [man-deyt] Show IPA noun, verb, man·dat·ed, man·dat·ing.
    noun 1. a command or authorization to act in a particular way on a public issue given by the electorate to its representative: The president had a clear mandate to end the war.


    2. a command from a superior court or official to a lower one.


    3. an authoritative order or command: a royal mandate.

    4. (in the League of Nations) a commission given to a nation to administer the government and affairs of a former Turkish territory or German colony.

    5. a mandated territory or colony.


    literacy is important in so many areas of life

  8. #58
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
    I'm surprised you didn't read this in October and November when it was widely reported. Here's one list that Google quickly turned up:

    who Event[stage]
    1999 LEIPHEIMER Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[3]
    1999 LEIPHEIMER Grand Prix Cycliste de Montreal[5]
    2000 LEIPHEIMER Circuit Franco-Belge [2]
    2001 LEIPHEIMER Redlands Bicycle Classic[6]
    2001 LEIPHEIMER Sea Otter Classic[1]
    2002 LEIPHEIMER Route du Sud [3]
    2002 LEIPHEIMER Route du Sud [GC]
    2004 LEIPHEIMER Setmana Catalana de Ciclisme[4]
    2004 ZABRISKIE National Championship
    2004 ZABRISKIE Vuelta a España[11]
    2005 HINCAPIE Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne
    2005 DANIELSON Tour de Georgia[5]
    2005 DANIELSON Tour de Georgia[GC]
    2005 ZABRISKIE Giro d’Italia[8]
    2005 HINCAPIE Dauphiné Libéré[p]
    2005 HINCAPIE Dauphiné Libéré[7]
    2005 ZABRISKIE Tour de France[1]
    2005 BARRY Tour of Austria [5]
    2005 HINCAPIE Tour de France[15]
    2005 LEIPHEIMER Deutschland Tour[4]
    2005 LEIPHEIMER Deutschland Tour[GC]
    2005 HINCAPIE GP Ouest France – Plouay
    2006 LEIPHEIMER Tour of California[p]
    2006 HINCAPIE Tour of California[2]
    2006 HINCAPIE Tour of California[5]
    2006 ZABRISKIE Dauphiné Libéré[p]
    2006 ZABRISKIE Dauphiné Libéré[3]
    2006 LEIPHEIMER Dauphiné Libéré[GC]
    2006 DANIELSON Tour of Austria [GC]
    2006 DANIELSON Vuelta a España[17]
    2007 LEIPHEIMER Tour de France[19]
    So Hincapie is still the only "American" winner of Ghent-Wevelgem (2001) and the only American to Podium in Paris-Roubaix (2005)? Whew!

  9. #59
    TFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    literacy is important in so many areas of life
    so is civil non-ad hominem discourse

    see also the definition for pontificate
    Last edited by dbf73; 02-08-13 at 11:32 AM.
    Doug

  10. #60
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    literacy is important in so many areas of life
    and this from a guy who says a lie isn't a lie if made by the Andreus. lol

  11. #61
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    and this from a guy who says a lie isn't a lie if made by the Andreus. lol
    there it is again...

  12. #62
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    and again...

    At first he was like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    uh...so he never actually said what you insist he said, but because you insist he said it, he's a liar. rrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiggghhhhhttttttt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    Oh c'mon lifer, if you'd like to debate the matter do so. You don't have to hide behind not-so-subtle swipes eh? Well, unless your argument is full of crap and that's all you have...
    but then he was like:
    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    Well this is certainlyan impressive response.

  13. #63
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    At first he was like:

    but then he was like:

    you said something that was stupid, and got mad because I said so. and then you said something that wasn't, and you're mad because I said so.

    that's how discussions are supposed to go. i don't judge the poster, i judge the post.

  14. #64
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    you said something that was stupid
    This from the genius who said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    Well it's pretty obvious that doping in Eddy's era had minimal effect.

  15. #65
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    This from the genius who said:
    you really want the debate the effect of amphetamine and steroids relative to EPO? perhaps I should revise my policy of not judging the poster.

  16. #66
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodus View Post
    you really want the debate the effect of amphetamine and steroids relative to EPO? perhaps I should revise my policy of not judging the poster.
    Oh no, the genius who said doping had minimal effect in Eddy's era might revise his policy of not judging the poster!

  17. #67
    Lanterne Rouge
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    The beauty of the internet is our words are preserved. The ugliness of the internet is that sockpuppets like this Cadan create profiles to denounce Lemond, the USADA, and make statements that all racers dope, then they just vanish. This clod's post history reads like one of Lance's legal/PR team.
    Oh, hi.

    I drop by occasionally, but Minnesota winters tend to decrease my interest in cycling.

    Would you like to call me some more names?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaDan View Post
    Would you like to call me some more names?
    The thread started with a certain tone when the second word of your post was "incompetent."

  19. #69
    Senior Member Commodus's Avatar
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    Terrible. Try it again, there's material there. Intimate that they were all blood doping. It's true they could have been. Hey I am wrong more than I am right believe me. I was a huge fan of lance.

  20. #70
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    USADA has developed an image and perception of corruption problem in boxing. There is an obvious incompetence problem in that "Olympic testing" in boxing isn't really because it only lasts 10 weeks prior to fight time and the testing procedure itself is lacking in being as comprehensive as that of VADA which is quickly becoming the favorite PED controls organization of many of the fighters who want to fight clean but tends to be shunned by unscrupulous promoters. There are also rumors abound about USADA collusion with one of the boxing promoters.

    http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...t-didnt-happen

    http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...ement-part-one

    http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...ent---part-two
    Last edited by Zinger; 12-05-13 at 03:07 PM.
    "I never lost a race because my bike was too heavy".......George Mount

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