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  1. #1
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    Why no lead out train for Sagan?

    I've noticed the last three wins by Sagan has had him on other team's wheels. Is Liquigas Cannondale simply sheltering Nibali and letting Sagan out on his own? I noticed that on Thursday's stage, Sky finally looked after Cav...although I'm sure he held a *** to their head to do so! Anybody have a guess on why these sprinters don't have any support?!?

  2. #2
    Senior Member crazyarm07's Avatar
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    Apparently, Sagan doesn't need a leadout train......


    Honestly though, I don't know. I think Sagan winning green is more likely for Liquigas than Nibali winning the overall, so I would think the support would go to Sagan. Maybe they just realize that a leadout train of L-C guys wouldn't be as effective as Sagan surfing the wheels of Lotto, Orica-GreenEdge, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by otter1833 View Post
    I've noticed the last three wins by Sagan has had him on other team's wheels. Is Liquigas Cannondale simply sheltering Nibali and letting Sagan out on his own? I noticed that on Thursday's stage, Sky finally looked after Cav...although I'm sure he held a *** to their head to do so! Anybody have a guess on why these sprinters don't have any support?!?
    Sagan is not a sprint specialist and has not had the same speed as the sprint specialists. But he is a great all around talent who can sprint fast enough that at certain times he can gain an advantage. I was surprised that he beat Greipel in stage 6. Most likely because the sprint was so long and Greipel got tired. In fact, that's what it looked like happened to me. In a textbook flat sprint finish that is not more than 200-250 meters Sagan has not been able to finish higher than 4-5 place. But it is possible that his speed is increasing. A team that is primarily a GC team is not going to devote a leadout train for him.

    Sagan, being a brilliant all-rounder can finish certain stage profiles with more power at the end of the race than some of the bigger guys who would be faster when fresh in a short controlled sprint.
    Last edited by Hezz; 07-06-12 at 10:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member gear's Avatar
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    Sagan and Cav were probably told going in that the focus of the team was on the GC and that they would not get much help on sprints. They probably felt they could win without a lead out team and in fact they both have done that.

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    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Sagan is a "non-sprint specialist" who beats the "faster" "pure" sprinters! lol
    The kid is winning sprints against sprint "specialists; the kid's fast, he can just
    also win when the road has an incline. And I agree with crazyarm07, MUCH more
    likely that Sagan wins the green than Nibali gets yellow or even the podium.
    Last edited by Cat4Lifer; 07-07-12 at 08:55 AM.

  6. #6
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    Well they must have heard you guys... looks like Sagan has one for the intermediate. Still something I just don't like about him yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alekhine
    If you want to get away with murder in the US, just run a pedestrian/cyclist over with your car and claim they jumped in front of you. Make sure you don't drive away from the scene and that you haven't been drinking.

  7. #7
    cycling fanatic Ken Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hezz View Post
    I was surprised that he beat Greipel in stage 6. Most likely because the sprint was so long and Greipel got tired.
    Greipel did very well considering that he was injured. I hear now that he has a dislocated shoulder.

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    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    McEwen was in a similar situation. He rarely had a huge lead out train but was a smart rider able to position himself in just the right place at the right time.
    i may have overreacted

  9. #9
    Upgrading my engine DXchulo's Avatar
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    It's been said, but (a) he doens't need one and (b) they're riding for Nibali. Nibali is gone next year, so we might see the team built around Sagan more often.
    centuryperweek.blogspot.com

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    Sagan is not a sprinter but more like an all a rounder, he can do it all. As for the lead out train, liquigas brought the kid to gain experience and the team was not built to win stages but to win the GC. The kid is winning stages, like an extra bonus but the team liquigas has is not for winning stages at all, the team was built around nibali and basso as a extra card (just in case).

    IMO the reason the kid won the sprint yesterday is because the other guy was injured, and because they let him sprint free. In the other flat stages he was not being able to sprint free at all. It is a thing of experience too, IMO probably by the end of the tour he will be fighting finishes with Cav...

  11. #11
    Senior Member cthenn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DXchulo View Post
    It's been said, but (a) he doens't need one and (b) they're riding for Nibali. Nibali is gone next year, so we might see the team built around Sagan more often.
    Leakygas better save all their Lira to sign Sagan...in a few years he's going to command more than Cancellara, or Gilbert, or Boonen. He's going to dominate the spring classics for the next 6-7 years.

  12. #12
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    I remember when they said Ullrich would dominate the TDF for years to come.
    Never count your chickens...

  13. #13
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    I remember when they said Ullrich would dominate the TDF for years to come.
    Never count your chickens...
    I wonder how many people in our situation said Felice Gimondi was the future in 1965?

    Gimondi is now the greatest cyclist that most have never heard of.

    At 22 years of age he won the TDF in his first attempt. (Hmm who is 22 this TDF).

    Now Gimondi did rather well. Eventually winning all 3 Major Tours and is ranked as high as the 6th best cyclist ever.

    BUT he was not the cyclist of his time.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hezz View Post
    Sagan is not a sprint specialist and has not had the same speed as the sprint specialists. But he is a great all around talent who can sprint fast enough that at certain times he can gain an advantage. I was surprised that he beat Greipel in stage 6. Most likely because the sprint was so long and Greipel got tired. In fact, that's what it looked like happened to me. In a textbook flat sprint finish that is not more than 200-250 meters Sagan has not been able to finish higher than 4-5 place. But it is possible that his speed is increasing. A team that is primarily a GC team is not going to devote a leadout train for him.

    Sagan, being a brilliant all-rounder can finish certain stage profiles with more power at the end of the race than some of the bigger guys who would be faster when fresh in a short controlled sprint.
    Bolding mine.

    And I thnik he will benefit far more from help on mountian stages than from a sprint train. I'm betting that he will get that help again and that he will get 10-20 on a couple of intermediate sprints in the mountians vrs. 0 for all his competitors. Perhaps even a stage win in a mountian stage (not a mountiantop finish). Depending on breakaways and how the GC contenders play things.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

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    I'm not a pro race watcher here, just got into it lately, but from what I can tell Sagan does not seem to need a lead out. He seems to be doing just fine. Seems he could benefit a little from experience in placing himself a little better. In a few sprints it seems he gets himself stuck or on the wrong side of another lead out and has to work his way through a little more than the rest of the sprinters. If not for that I think he would have a few more points to pad his lead and maybe another win.
    Tailwinds make me feel like Superman and headwinds make me feel like Lois Lane.

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