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Old 07-08-12, 06:00 AM   #1
daven1986
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radios

As a newbie TdF watcher (only started last year), I don't like the way the breakaway hardly ever wins unless it is a mountain finish. I'm guessing that the riders knowing how far away the breakaway is means they can take their time and know exactly when to pick up the pace.

Do you think that it would be better without radios so that the peloton has to be more aggressive? I heard that radios will be allowed until at least the end of 2012, no idea what will happen after then. But I know I'm always rooting for the breakaway to win

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Old 07-08-12, 06:23 AM   #2
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If it wasn't a radio it'd be that Breton girl on the back of a moto with chalk and a blackboard.
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Old 07-08-12, 06:24 AM   #3
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True, but at least that isn't real time information, it means that if the breakaway started to hammer, then the peloton would be slow to react.
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Old 07-08-12, 06:51 AM   #4
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^In that case they wouldn't let them build up a big lead and bring them back further out from the finish.
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Old 07-08-12, 08:42 AM   #5
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What does it take for the breakaway to win then, is it just luck?
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Old 07-08-12, 10:04 AM   #6
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There has always been the moto with the chalkboard. I loathe car to rider radio and wish it was eliminated. It takes a lot of the decision making away from the riders and turns them into little more than a robots who do only what their director says. Yeah I know, team cars can pull up next to the riders and give instructions. We've never had this type of micro management of riders before though.

Someone asked what does it take now for a break to succeed. Luck. The team directors have to miscalculate the time it will take for their riders to close the gap.

Oh yeah. Don't try to play the safety card either. Its a week reason to have radio.
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Old 07-08-12, 10:54 AM   #7
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What does it take for the breakaway to win then, is it just luck?
In a stage race like the TdF.

Primarily, everyone in the breakaway has to be way down on GC. They also need to work together which isn't always the case. Indecision in the main bunch helps. Timing. Legs.
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Old 07-08-12, 01:34 PM   #8
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As a newbie TdF watcher (only started last year), I don't like the way the breakaway hardly ever wins unless it is a mountain finish....
• Breakaways often get swept up in both flat and mountain stages.
• Small breakaways rarely stand a chance on a flat stage. Too many sprinters compete for points.
• By the time the first mountain stage is over, most of the riders who take off are way down on GC, and don't pose a threat to the guys who really want to win (namely, GC riders).

I might add that it's highly unlikely this will truly get rolled back. ASO tried to bar it last year, and both the riders and UCI protested.

Just be glad they aren't sending text messages during the race.
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Old 07-08-12, 08:30 PM   #9
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What does it take for the breakaway to win then, is it just luck?
Ask Floyd.
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Old 07-09-12, 03:03 AM   #10
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I don't buy the "radios turn riders are mindless automatons of the DS" line of reasoning. I think that is almost as specious a con- argument as the safety thing is pro-. At the end of the day, radios allow race intelligence to be transmitted to the riders, and it is still a question of whether they have the legs and heart to do something about it. It boils down to a question of whether you think the racing will be better with the riders having more information or less.

I'm not sure I want to see a race dominated by whether the riders miscount the number of riders who got away, and breaks are all about stealth mode. Though the yellow moto would probably narc them out. The negative effects of no radios I wonder about, as far as interesting racing goes, are:

- peoloton becomes more conservative about letting breaks go and catching them sooner, which I think might be less interesting than watching a closely timed catch. i.e., close catches are nail biters because the breaks succeed infrequently, more successful breaks would probably be more boring and we'd be whining about not enough bunch finishes.

- more attrition of favorites as they drop off for mechanicals or crashes and their teams don't know to help them (a la Frank Schleck inexplicably boycotting his radio in the carnage outside of Metz). Alternately, to avoid that, the teams ride with all members together to facilitate head counts.

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Old 07-09-12, 09:44 AM   #11
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I don't see it as radios stifling breakaways. Radios have been in use since the early 90s and many, many breakaways
have succeeded since then. In 2001, when radios were in no less use than they are today, there were a couple of breakaways
that gained nearly 10-minutes on the field. If memory serves me correct, Stuart O'Grady took over the yellow-jersey with one of
those breakaways and Jens Voight, his then teammate, took the jersey in another breakaway the next day. I think some people
just tend to myopically blame radios for stifling breakaways while ignoring the evidence to the contrary. Wasn't there this little
known French guy who took over the yellow jersey for a few days in the '04 TDF from a long-breakaway. Oh, and yes, teams
were using radios in '04.
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Old 07-09-12, 10:03 AM   #12
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I don't see it as radios stifling breakaways. Radios have been in use since the early 90s and many, many breakaways
have succeeded since then. In 2001, when radios were in no less use than they are today, there were a couple of breakaways
that gained nearly 10-minutes on the field. If memory serves me correct, Stuart O'Grady took over the yellow-jersey with one of
those breakaways and Jens Voight, his then teammate, took the jersey in another breakaway the next day. I think some people
just tend to myopically blame radios for stifling breakaways while ignoring the evidence to the contrary. Wasn't there this little
known French guy who took over the yellow jersey for a few days in the '04 TDF from a long-breakaway. Oh, and yes, teams
were using radios in '04.
It's funny that it's Voeckler who is one of the outspoken anti-radio guys. Obviously...he's made his name on gaining massive time on breaks, and then S L O W L Y giving it back over multiple stages. Without the radios, he'd have a much bigger chance to win on a break, IF the peloton ever allowed them away again...
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Old 07-09-12, 10:05 AM   #13
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Without the radios, he'd have a much bigger chance to win on a break
No he wouldn't.
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Old 07-09-12, 10:09 AM   #14
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No he wouldn't.
I can play that game too.

"Yuh huh"
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Old 07-09-12, 10:20 AM   #15
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That which can be asserted with no evidence, can be dismissed with no evidence.
I win. You lose. =)
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Old 07-09-12, 12:51 PM   #16
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Sean Kelly blames part of the increases in crashes to the use of car to rider radio. You've got 20 directors screaming in their riders ears to get to the front. Obviously everyone cant be at the front and thus you end up with riders taking silly chances just to move forward a couple places.
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Old 07-09-12, 03:12 PM   #17
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Damn those radios deviating from their line and causing all these crashes!!!
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Old 07-09-12, 03:24 PM   #18
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Sean Kelly blames part of the increases in crashes to the use of car to rider radio. You've got 20 directors screaming in their riders ears to get to the front. Obviously everyone cant be at the front and thus you end up with riders taking silly chances just to move forward a couple places.
They are a distraction also. Don't know how much of one, but it is reasonable to think it has contributed to some of the crashes.

Though I'd bet the raw numbers contribute more. And those same numbers also controbute to the boring racing. These days ther are so many teams that it is almost a sure thing that there will be at least a half dozen with a reason to pull back the break.Thirty years ago thsi was not the case. A 12 rider break could lead to only a couple of teams having an interest and 12 vrs 18 is a much closer contest. than 12 vrs 36 or more.
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Old 07-09-12, 04:23 PM   #19
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I think there's a bit of "guns don't kill people, people do" going on there. Sure, the radios make it a lot easier to squawk about getting on the front, but whether 20 DSs give the verbal direction over the radio or tell the guys when they're leaving the bus to be on the front at 25k, there's still going to be a physics problem that can only end in a crash unless some folks start using judgement.
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Old 07-09-12, 09:11 PM   #20
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I never bought the "radios has made the peloton safer" crap from the pro peloton. We can all agree that radios has kinda changed the sport from what was good regarding not knowing where your opponent is at any given time (makes for an infinitely more intersting race). It is only a matter of time for breakaways to be reeled in, with directors on radios telling you how far the breakway is and generally using radios to manage and affect races. It is a different uninspiring game with radios.
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Old 07-10-12, 05:44 AM   #21
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FWIW, Jens Voight is rather pro-radio... http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-an...om-jens-voigt/
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Old 07-10-12, 10:56 AM   #22
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FWIW, Jens Voight is rather pro-radio... http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-an...om-jens-voigt/
I read the article and some of the responses. As pointed out by some responders, the safety and equipment failure angles Jens mentioned can be mitigated by cutting the DS out of the radio loop. As it is now, radio has become a great tactical tool for managing and affecting races.
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