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Old 07-09-12, 01:53 PM   #1
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tdf misses contador more than he misses the tdf...

you know it. i know it. we all know it. the tdf organizers know it. the race misses contador (and to a lesser degree andy). sky/wiggins/froome/et al
have sucked most of the drama out of the gc race. to those that can overlook their hating, where do you think contador would be placed right now were he racing? i'm guessing wiggo & co wouldn't be feeling as good about their chances as they currently do...
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Old 07-09-12, 02:05 PM   #2
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Seriously. Having the reigning TdF Champion in the peloton this year would make for a much bett ... err ... wait a second.

But more seriously, which Contador? Contador version 2011 added a little excitement but had likely blown himself out in the Giro.
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Old 07-09-12, 02:12 PM   #3
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agreed. even though he is still the premier stage racer around, the giro/tour double was too tough for contador last year. whether it was team support, training, another brutal giro route, whatever...still think if he went armstrong and just focused pretty much on the tdf, everyone else is racing for 2nd. glad he's paid true homage to the sport and raced/excelled/won all 3 gt's tho.
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Old 07-09-12, 02:16 PM   #4
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It would have taken the Contador of 2009, not 2010 and especially not 2011. He forgot how to time trial in early 2010. He would have lost significant time in this year's time trials. And, when the leaders are climbling at 470-480 watts, even he at his best would be hard pressed to gain any time.
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Old 07-09-12, 08:26 PM   #5
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Really interested to see how he does in the Vuelta. He has such an attacking style, I think he would have animated the heck out of the mountain stages in this Tour, and I would assume he's gotten his TT back as well. After his failed attempted double in 2011, didn't he say he would in the future only focus on the TdF? That would make all the difference in his form.
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Old 07-09-12, 09:01 PM   #6
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Contador is the best, repeat, the best grand tour racer in the world. I think the 2011 Giro took a lot out of him, hence the debacle at last year's TdF. We'll all get to see what kind of rider he truly is when he comes back and concetrate on le Tour. He is really in a class by himself.

My gawd, how I miss his acceleration up mountain roads.
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Old 07-09-12, 10:43 PM   #7
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yeah, we could use a little AC in the Tour...even in 2011 he still added excitement, even though he was obviously fried from the giro.
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Old 07-10-12, 01:15 AM   #8
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Contador is the best, repeat, the best grand tour racer in the world. I think the 2011 Giro took a lot out of him, hence the debacle at last year's TdF. We'll all get to see what kind of rider he truly is when he comes back and concetrate on le Tour. He is really in a class by himself.

My gawd, how I miss his acceleration up mountain roads.
contrador was suspended (source) and didn't think he could ride the 2011 TDF and only knew he could ride just before. He was completely unprepared and then lost a minutes of time in a crash in the first week. After that It looked like he was riding for fun, the fun of climbing faster than andy.

Yes the tour misses him, as well as some others... last year with Voeckler in yellow attacking on the decents it was very entertaining. Also with 6 people with a chance of winning the GC after two weeks of riding and andy attacking with 60km to go.
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Old 07-10-12, 08:36 AM   #9
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I can't wait for the Vuelta. I just hope NBC Sports covers it.
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Old 07-10-12, 08:51 AM   #10
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Agreed.
Looks like a c--- and a w----- is going to win this year.
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Old 07-10-12, 09:47 AM   #11
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Really interested to see how he does in the Vuelta. He has such an attacking style, I think he would have animated the heck out of the mountain stages in this Tour, and I would assume he's gotten his TT back as well. After his failed attempted double in 2011, didn't he say he would in the future only focus on the TdF? That would make all the difference in his form.

Based on what? Spy photos? He hasn't turned in a good time trial since 2009 when his time trialing wasn't just good, it was great. He hasn't even had a good bike fit for time trialing since then.
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Old 07-10-12, 10:43 AM   #12
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In 2010, it was quite obvious that Contador was having a bad Tour. His climbing was crap and the fact that his TT time was so close to Andy's terrible TT indicates that he wasnt his usual self.

In 2011, his TdF wasnt representative - considering he raced one of the hardest stage races in recent times in the 2011 Giro and only was allowed to ride the Tour after that (he did destroy the field in the Giro climbing TT). That was the only time he's lost a Grand Tour in the past 7 attempts. And he's gonna be so amped up that he's probably going to destroy the Vuelta later this year.

So I'd say the jury is out as to whether his TT is poor or not - but given his overall palmares, I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of doubt.

Damn shame Andy is likely to miss the Vuelta. Andy vs Contador would have been great racing.
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Old 07-10-12, 12:26 PM   #13
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I am excited to see Contador back on the road in the Vuelta, but after Samu crashing out of the Tour, I would be nervous for Contador to be on the road when Euskaltel may be looking to the Vuelta to keep their points total up.
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Old 07-11-12, 04:22 PM   #14
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Based on what? Spy photos? He hasn't turned in a good time trial since 2009 when his time trialing wasn't just good, it was great. He hasn't even had a good bike fit for time trialing since then.
Yeah, spy photos. Sure. That, and the fact that he's been an incredibly good time trialist for quite some time now, with only a couple of off performances. The guy is going to be angry and flying. You really think he hasn't been working his a$$ off on his TT? Oh wait, you probably have spy photos that show otherwise.
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Old 07-12-12, 11:52 AM   #15
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Yeah, spy photos. Sure. That, and the fact that he's been an incredibly good time trialist for quite some time now, with only a couple of off performances. The guy is going to be angry and flying. You really think he hasn't been working his a$$ off on his TT? Oh wait, you probably have spy photos that show otherwise.
That explains his spectacular final TT in the 2010 TDFHe hasn't been a spectacular time trialist since 2009. Below is from 2010 tdf

[TABLE]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]11[/TD]
[TD]Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:03:51[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]12[/TD]
[TD]Jérémy Roy (Fra) Française des Jeux[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:00[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]13[/TD]
[TD]Stuart O'Grady (Aus) Team Saxo Bank[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:06[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]14[/TD]
[TD]Maxime Monfort (Bel) Team HTC - Columbia[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:14[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]15[/TD]
[TD]Pavel Brutt (Rus) Team Katusha[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:15[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]16[/TD]
[TD]Nicki Sörensen (Den) Team Saxo Bank[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]17[/TD]
[TD]David Millar (GBr) Garmin - Transitions[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:20[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]18[/TD]
[TD]Jurgen Roelandts (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:33[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]19[/TD]
[TD]Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) Team Radioshack[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:38[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]20[/TD]
[TD]Steve Morabito (Swi) BMC Racing Team[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:39[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]21[/TD]
[TD]Chris Anker Sørensen (Den) Team Saxo Bank[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:46[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]22[/TD]
[TD]Martijn Maaskant (Ned) Garmin - Transitions[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:48[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]23[/TD]
[TD]Kanstantsin Siutsou (Blr) Team HTC - Columbia[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:04:59[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]24[/TD]
[TD]Sébastien Turgot (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:02[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]25[/TD]
[TD]Sebastian Lang (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:07[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]26[/TD]
[TD]Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Team Saxo Bank[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:08[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]27[/TD]
[TD]Anthony Roux (Fra) Française des Jeux[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:09[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]28[/TD]
[TD]Christophe Kern (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:14[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]29[/TD]
[TD]Juan Antonio Flecha Giannoni (Spa) Sky Professional Cycling Team[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:15[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]30[/TD]
[TD]Brett Lancaster (Aus) Cervelo Test Team[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:16[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]31[/TD]
[TD]Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Team Radioshack[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:28[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]32[/TD]
[TD]Danilo Hondo (Ger) Lampre-Farnese Vini[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:30[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]33[/TD]
[TD]Alexander Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:32[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]34[/TD]
[TD]Dimitri Champion (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:38[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]35[/TD]
[TD]Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:43[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]36[/TD]
[TD]Dries Devenyns (Bel) Quick Step[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]37[/TD]
[TD]Carlos Barredo Llamazales (Spa) Quick Step[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:48[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]38[/TD]
[TD]Jurgen Van De Walle (Bel) Quick Step[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:50[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]39[/TD]
[TD]Amaël Moinard (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:51[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]40[/TD]
[TD]Samuel Sánchez Gonzalez (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"] [/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]41[/TD]
[TD]Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team Radioshack[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:05:59[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]42[/TD]
[TD]Brent Bookwalter (USA) BMC Racing Team[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:06:01[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: alt temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]43[/TD]
[TD]Arkaitz Duran Daroca (Spa) Footon-Servetto[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:06:13[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: temp_hide"]
[TD="class: count"]44[/TD]
[TD]Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank[/TD]
[TD="class: result_column"]0:06:14[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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Old 07-12-12, 11:56 AM   #16
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In 2010, it was quite obvious that Contador was having a bad Tour. His climbing was crap and the fact that his TT time was so close to Andy's terrible TT indicates that he wasnt his usual self.

In 2011, his TdF wasnt representative - considering he raced one of the hardest stage races in recent times in the 2011 Giro and only was allowed to ride the Tour after that (he did destroy the field in the Giro climbing TT). That was the only time he's lost a Grand Tour in the past 7 attempts. And he's gonna be so amped up that he's probably going to destroy the Vuelta later this year.

So I'd say the jury is out as to whether his TT is poor or not - but given his overall palmares, I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of doubt.

Damn shame Andy is likely to miss the Vuelta. Andy vs Contador would have been great racing.
Not just a lone poor performance in the final ITT in the 2010 TDF. He did not have a single ITT after the 2009 TDF that replicated his TT's during that tour. Bike fit was extremely poor. I've never seen anyone bounce around in the saddle as bad as he did in several ITT's during 2010.
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Old 07-12-12, 06:56 PM   #17
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Really interested to see how he does in the Vuelta. He has such an attacking style, I think he would have animated the heck out of the mountain stages in this Tour, and I would assume he's gotten his TT back as well. After his failed attempted double in 2011, didn't he say he would in the future only focus on the TdF? That would make all the difference in his form.
Agree he will animate the climbing stages like no other but I would not expect to see AC ever be as good as he was in 2009-2010. He cannot risk using any PED's ever again or a lifetime ban. So he probably will be racing completely clean and never get to as high a level as before. Look at Basso. Without doping he is only a great domestique that can maybe win a smaller week long stage race without any big names there.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:22 PM   #18
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Le Tour is bigger than just one rider.

I would say 2011 was a little more exciting, but this year doesn't suck -- especially if you're a Brit. When the GC slows down, there's a half dozen other things to pay attention to, including stage wins, KOM and young talent.

As to Contador not TT'ing well since 2009, let's see....

Vuelta a Mercia 2011, Stage 3, 1st place (subsequently scratched)
Vuelta a Castilla y León 2011, Stage 4, 1st place (subsequently scratched)
TdF 2011, Stage 20, 3rd place (on a Tour where he'd spectacularly cracked)
Giro 2011, Stage 16, 1st place (when already up on Scarponi by almost 5 minutes)
Giro 2011, Stage 20, 3rd place (up by 6+ minutes)
Criterium International 2010, 2nd place in ITT (behind Millar by 2s)
Vuelta a Castilla y León 2010, 1st place in ITT
Dauphine 2010, 1st in Prologue

There's no way to know how he'll do in the Vuelta. He could be champing at the bit, he could be cold from being out of competition, he could be fresh from being out of competition. But he's obviously TT'ed quite well in 2011, and I expect he'll do quite well in the Vuelta's ITT later this year.
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Old 07-12-12, 08:27 PM   #19
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For all we know, he's over the hill. We aren't going to know if he's still top until we see him race again.
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Old 07-12-12, 10:41 PM   #20
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great for the brits, not so good for us canadians, the only one dropped out!

cancellara's gone now too, Tony Martin, Petacchi was HD, Renshaw is gone. I think the Croix de fer was too much for them!!!
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Old 07-13-12, 04:00 PM   #21
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Le Tour is bigger than just one rider.

I would say 2011 was a little more exciting, but this year doesn't suck -- especially if you're a Brit. When the GC slows down, there's a half dozen other things to pay attention to, including stage wins, KOM and young talent.

As to Contador not TT'ing well since 2009, let's see....

Vuelta a Mercia 2011, Stage 3, 1st place (subsequently scratched)
Vuelta a Castilla y León 2011, Stage 4, 1st place (subsequently scratched)
TdF 2011, Stage 20, 3rd place (on a Tour where he'd spectacularly cracked)
Giro 2011, Stage 16, 1st place (when already up on Scarponi by almost 5 minutes)
Giro 2011, Stage 20, 3rd place (up by 6+ minutes)
Criterium International 2010, 2nd place in ITT (behind Millar by 2s)
Vuelta a Castilla y León 2010, 1st place in ITT
Dauphine 2010, 1st in Prologue

There's no way to know how he'll do in the Vuelta. He could be champing at the bit, he could be cold from being out of competition, he could be fresh from being out of competition. But he's obviously TT'ed quite well in 2011, and I expect he'll do quite well in the Vuelta's ITT later this year.
I think this past record indicates that AC still has some serious potential. As far as I'm concerned he is the most genetically gifted GC rider since Mercx. And if he's riding clean in a peloton that's mostly clean he will fair pretty well. But it may take him a few months or a year to get back into prime fitness. But as far as grand Tour racing goes. It seems that coming in fit and fresh is just about the most important factor in these 21 day races. As Armstrong has shown in the past. Lots of racing days prior to the grand tours is not necessary for some riders.
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Old 07-14-12, 03:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hezz View Post
Agree he will animate the climbing stages like no other but I would not expect to see AC ever be as good as he was in 2009-2010. He cannot risk using any PED's ever again or a lifetime ban. So he probably will be racing completely clean and never get to as high a level as before. Look at Basso. Without doping he is only a great domestique that can maybe win a smaller week long stage race without any big names there.
You do know that Basso won the Giro after his suspension, don't you? Plus he's 34 now so his decline is probably not only about doping.

And saying that AC won't be as good as in 2009-2010 doesn't make much sense, of course he was better in 2011 than in 2010 (and going by your logic, he was already racing clean then). His 2011 Giro win was way more impressive than his 2010 Tour win and he followed it up with a very good Tour performance (having in mind all of his crashes and lack of team support; and the fact that for years nobody has been that close to achieving Giro-Tour double).
As for his TT form, he wasn't that far from his best in 2011. He was 3rd in the Giro while taking it easy and 3rd in the Tour while being super tired. And he won ITTs in Vuelta a Murcia and Vuelta a Castilla y Leon. (Admittedly, he was pretty bad in Algavre- but that was his 1st race in quite a while, plus it was before him and Riis started working on his position.)

If Contador and A. Schleck were in the Tour and worked together like in 2010, I'm sure they would outclimb Wiggins painfully. I only don't know about Froome because he sort of came from nowhere and he's usually held back by Wiggo so I don't really know what his limits are (though him keeping with AC and AS would make me laugh hard).
Certainly, the race misses both of them, or rather it misses elite climbers in general. If the group is down to 8 riders and Porte and Rogers are among them, you know something is not right. (In fact it might have been enough if Van den Broeck was more lucky and him and Nibbles had better teams... though of course they aren't AS and AC.)
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Old 07-14-12, 05:00 PM   #23
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Yeah if this is drug free racing , bring back the drugs. Just kidding. The Vuelta will be broadcast on Universal Sports, an NBC property, and will most likely and mercifully be commented by gogo and schlanger. I coudnt take more than one grand tour a year by the Brit Bozos.
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