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  1. #1
    Senior Member Eclectus's Avatar
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    Lance loses a lawsuit againt USADA. Is he going down?

    Wow! His lawyers suggested this move, and made money, and it cost him some money. Should he keep his riches, and capitulate?

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    I thought lawyers worked for free because they believed in justice for all.

    I think its time for an individual mandate so all people have equal access to quality legal representation.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectus View Post
    Wow! His lawyers suggested this move, and made money, and it cost him some money. Should he keep his riches, and capitulate?
    Lance wasn't expecting to win his lawsuit. He was looking to get some good PR from the effort. He got his money's worth.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Kurt Erlenbach's Avatar
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    He didn't lose the lawsuit. The judge dismissed it because it was badly written, in violation of the rules. They will refile soon. Maybe they will win, probably they will lose, but it's a long way from over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Erlenbach View Post
    He didn't lose the lawsuit. The judge dismissed it because it was badly written, in violation of the rules. They will refile soon. Maybe they will win, probably they will lose, but it's a long way from over.
    What are you talking about? The suit was thrown out because it had no merit, no re-write is going to fix that. If the case has no merit, it has no merit. The judge sounded pretty PO'd that this attention ***** was using the court system as a publicity stunt.
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  6. #6
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteamingAlong View Post
    What are you talking about? The suit was thrown out because it had no merit, no re-write is going to fix that. If the case has no merit, it has no merit. The judge sounded pretty PO'd that this attention ***** was using the court system as a publicity stunt.
    wrong. case was dismissed without prejudice. lance has 20 days to amend, otherwise case is closed permanently.

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    It must be a crushing blow for Armstrong. His weapons are useless -- he can't bribe, bully or intimidate a district court judge.

    To add insult to injury, the judge publicly humiliated him with his strongly-worded rebuke:

    “This Court is not inclined to indulge Armstrong's desire for publicity, self-aggrandizement, or vilification of Defendants, by sifting through eighty mostly unnecessary pages in search of the few kernels of factual material relevant to his claims”

    Ouch.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
    wrong. case was dismissed without prejudice. lance has 20 days to amend, otherwise case is closed permanently.
    Post proof or retract, because the national television media is telling a completely different story, as in ammending so that the case actually has merit?

    As the judge said in released statement. This was a publicity stunt.
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  9. #9
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteamingAlong View Post
    Post proof or retract, because the national television media is telling a completely different story, as in ammending so that the case actually has merit?

    As the judge said in released statement. This was a publicity stunt.
    how about you read a news article before walking in here and telling people what is up.

    first google result for "lance dismissed":

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/sp...g-charges.html

    Quote Originally Posted by NYTimes
    The judge added that Armstrong could refile his case within 20 days, but only if he limited his pleadings to information that was legally relevant to his case.
    or if you don't take their word for it, read the ****ing order:

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...rong_order.pdf

    first paragraph bolded - "WITHOUT PREJUDICE"

    final paragraph - IT IS FINALLY ORDERED that Armstrong shall file any amended complaint within TWENTY (20) DAYS of entry of this order, or this case shall be closed and dismissed for failure to prosecute, and for failure to comply with this Court's orders."
    Last edited by CbadRider; 07-10-12 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate comment

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt Erlenbach View Post
    He didn't lose the lawsuit. The judge dismissed it because it was badly written, in violation of the rules. They will refile soon. Maybe they will win, probably they will lose, but it's a long way from over.
    If I were Lance, I'd think about getting some new lawyers. This has not helped his case at all, if he has one. I fairly sure the USADA will prevail and this will be "resolved" by CAS. It will probably never be resolved -- Lance will never admit to doping but there will always be a cloud of suspicion over his wins.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
    how about you read a news article before walking in here and telling people what is up.

    first google result for "lance dismissed":

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/sp...g-charges.html



    or if you don't take their word for it, read the ****ing order:

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...rong_order.pdf

    first paragraph bolded - "WITHOUT PREJUDICE"

    final paragraph - IT IS FINALLY ORDERED that Armstrong shall file any amended complaint within TWENTY (20) DAYS of entry of this order, or this case shall be closed and dismissed for failure to prosecute, and for failure to comply with this Court's orders."
    Without prejudice doesn't mean he didn't waste the courts time with this case filing a case with no merit.

    Maybe he should get Canseco and Bonds to join in with him. Since they have as much of a complaint as Lance.
    Last edited by CbadRider; 07-10-12 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Edited quoted post
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  12. #12
    abandoning fly:yes/land:no's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteamingAlong View Post
    Without prejudice doesn't mean he didn't waste the courts time with this case filing a case with no merit.

    Maybe he should get Canseco and Bonds to join in with him. Since they have as much of a complaint as Lance.
    failing again.

    1. canseco was never charged by usada
    2. bonds was never charged by usada
    3. i can actually point out these facts as well as linking the order above without being a lance shill. in fact if you took the time to read my posts in the 217, i think you could easily discern on which side of the line i fall.
    4. ironic - you attempting to debate the meaning of "without prejudice" while consistently making erroneous arguments and misstating facts simply to bolster your claim that lance doped/is a "TOOL".
    Last edited by CbadRider; 07-10-12 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Edited quoted post

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fly:yes/land:no View Post
    failing again.

    1. canseco was never charged by usada
    2. bonds was never charged by usada
    3. i can actually point out these facts as well as linking the order above without being a lance shill. in fact if you took the time to read my posts in the 217, i think you could easily discern on which side of the line i fall.
    4. ironic - you attempting to debate the meaning of "without prejudice" while consistently making erroneous arguments and misstating facts simply to bolster your claim that lance doped/is a "TOOL".
    He kind of reminds me of somebody, but I just can't put my finger on who.

  14. #14
    Administrator CbadRider's Avatar
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    Just a reminder that the forum guidelines do not allow name-calling or other harassment. This is a volatile subject but it can be discussed without resorting to personal attacks.

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    Forum Guidelines *click here*

  15. #15
    Lanterne Rouge
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    Rule 8 dismissals are kind of rare. Rule 8 requires that the Complaint contain a short, plain statement of the facts. Most of the time, cases are dismissed for not having enough detail, not for having too much.

    I actually plowed my way through the unsightly hairball* of a Complaint. It describes in excruciating detail Armstrong's claim that the WADA is out to get him and his claim that the process is really messed up. Too much detail, in fact. In addition, the formatting is really messed up with a super-wide left margin. IIRC, that was a "feature" of an old version of MS Word in outline mode.

    Better practice would have been to make the Complaint more straightforward and put all of Armstrong's allegations about unfairness and the problems with the process in a supporting affidavit for the TRO.

    *"Unsightly hairball" is a phrase used in another opinion in my District describing a big ugly overpled Complaint.

  16. #16
    Senior Member telebianchi's Avatar
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    Decent article in Outside Magazine Online regarding Armstrong's case and the setup of USADA. I think the writer leans in Armstrong's favor (although he says early on that he felt Armstrong doped many years ago) but does present possible legal arguments from both USADA and Armstrong's side of things.

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng-Victim.html
    May your tires or beer never be flat.

  17. #17
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    First, no comment on the legal issues, thankfully I have no experience.

    This has been eating at me for quite a while, a common malady I assume. My simple way of looking at the situation:

    Hypothesis #1: Lance starts his career as a gifted athlete, is diagnosed with cancer, beats this damn disease and in the process, builds only those attributes necessary for a world class bike rider, wins a bunch of races, is an arrogant SOB and pisses many people off (example, flag of Texas flying over THE hotel in Paris numerous times), "dances on the pedals", retires then comes back (listening Michael?), finishes off the top step, all the while being hounded, accused and always professing his innocence, beats Novitski and the US Govt, is pillared by the USADA and the fine fellows/ladies of BF.....


    Hypothesis #2
    Lance starts his career as a gifted athlete, is diagnosed with cancer, beats this damn disease and in the process, meets Dr. Ferrari, takes the juice, cons George, Levi, Floyd et.al., wins a bunch of races, is an arrogant SOB and pisses many people off (example, flag of Texas flying over THE hotel in Paris numerous times), "dances on the pedals", retires then comes back (listening Michael?), finishes off the top step all the while being hounded, accused and always professing his innocence, beats Novitski and the US Govt, is pillared by the USADA and the fine fellows/ladies of BF.....

    If #2, hang the SOB, and the bully (I cannot recall the nickname given above to Johan, but it was perfect!).

    If #1, and he is innocent...what do we do next?

    Riding tomorrow.

    I have no horse in this race, just love the sport, an old (65 going on 18) slow guy in NH.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by telebianchi View Post
    Decent article in Outside Magazine Online regarding Armstrong's case and the setup of USADA. I think the writer leans in Armstrong's favor (although he says early on that he felt Armstrong doped many years ago) but does present possible legal arguments from both USADA and Armstrong's side of things.

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng-Victim.html
    Without a doubt, the best analysis I've read so far. Lance's guilt or non-guilt looks to be secondary to an out of control organization -- the USADA. If you're intersted in more than being a fan or basher, you need to read this article.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by telebianchi View Post
    Decent article in Outside Magazine Online regarding Armstrong's case and the setup of USADA. I think the writer leans in Armstrong's favor (although he says early on that he felt Armstrong doped many years ago) but does present possible legal arguments from both USADA and Armstrong's side of things.

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng-Victim.html
    Is that the very same Outside Magazine, Mr. Armstrong told he wouldn't fight any more charges if the USADA happened to bring any against him? looks like he's lied again, he's pretty good @ lying. Didn't he claim he was "through fighting"? I believe i read that right?(someone here Im sure can clarify, Ive looked for the link, and cant find it. BUT< the new "VeloNews" even mentions it.)

  20. #20
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by telebianchi View Post
    Decent article in Outside Magazine Online regarding Armstrong's case and the setup of USADA. I think the writer leans in Armstrong's favor (although he says early on that he felt Armstrong doped many years ago) but does present possible legal arguments from both USADA and Armstrong's side of things.

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor...ng-Victim.html
    Very interesting article.
    Thanks for posting it!

  21. #21
    Chip seal rocks Howard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty861 View Post
    First, no comment on the legal issues, thankfully I have no experience.

    This has been eating at me for quite a while, a common malady I assume. My simple way of looking at the situation:

    Hypothesis #1: Lance starts his career as a gifted athlete, is diagnosed with cancer, ...


    Hypothesis #2
    Lance starts his career as a gifted athlete, is diagnosed with cancer, b......

    If #2, hang the SOB, and the bully (I cannot recall the nickname given above to Johan, but it was perfect!).The Hog,

    If #1, and he is innocent...what do we do next?

    Riding tomorrow.

    I have no horse in this race, just love the sport, an old (65 going on 18) slow guy in NH.
    Personally, I give about a 50% chance that he'll follow Ferrari's lead and not respond to the USADA. It allows those who want to believe still believe without ever admitting to anything, and avoids a lot of negative press, some of it presumably by what Hincapie would be expected to say. Hincapie - would even George be subjected to the "he's just jealous and has a book deal coming" treatment? Let's hope we don't get to find out.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
    He kind of reminds me of somebody, but I just can't put my finger on who.
    Ah, now I remember.

  23. #23
    Senior Member kleinboogie's Avatar
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    If Lance's lawyers can write a correct complaint it will all move forward and might even make it to the supreme court. I did find it ironic that the judge went to great lengths to scold Lance for being overly wordy and irrelevant.

  24. #24
    Senior Member telebianchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LemondFanForeve View Post
    Is that the very same Outside Magazine, Mr. Armstrong told he wouldn't fight any more charges if the USADA happened to bring any against him? looks like he's lied again, he's pretty good @ lying. Didn't he claim he was "through fighting"? I believe i read that right?(someone here Im sure can clarify, Ive looked for the link, and cant find it. BUT< the new "VeloNews" even mentions it.)
    You make Lance sound like a typical politician running for office.

    Did you bother to read the article I linked or just post a rant when you saw "Outside Magazine"? Based on your postings, I think you will find some things in there you will happily agree with. Other things you probably won't. But the article presents a clearer view of things than worrying about whether LA "lied" or "changed his mind" about being "through fighting".
    May your tires or beer never be flat.

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    and it has been refiled. 25 pages now.

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