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Old 07-13-12, 07:38 PM   #1
letitsnow
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Why not TT a course like stage 11?

That would be fun to watch!!
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Old 07-14-12, 08:31 AM   #2
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It looks like I am alone on this one. It would be fun to watch each rider do these climbs on their own. No looking at each other, no team helpers - just a race against the clock, through the mountains...
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Old 07-14-12, 11:33 AM   #3
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No, too boring. Might as well watch baseball.



You get a better dynamic for drame when there's a rider you want to beat or have to catch. It's also scientifically proven that head to head competition brings out the absolute best in riders.
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Old 07-14-12, 12:40 PM   #4
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Actually, in the past many ITT's included significant climbs; e.g. 1987, stage 18 was an ITT up Mt Ventoux. The Giro did an ITT through Cinque Terre a few years ago. 2001 was the most recent year the TdF did a real uphill ITT.

They also did more ITT's then. E.g. the average (including prologues) in the 80s was 3.6, in the 90s was 3, in the 00's 2.3.
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Old 07-14-12, 01:39 PM   #5
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Long, hilly TT's are a relic of early 20th century stage racing.
The time gaps would be to be big to keep the excitement intact these days.

Although, personally I'd like to see longer TT's occasionally too.
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Old 07-14-12, 02:52 PM   #6
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Long, hilly TT's are a relic of early 20th century stage racing.
The time gaps would be to be big to keep the excitement intact these days.

Although, personally I'd like to see longer TT's occasionally too.
On a course like that, you couldn't keep the riders spread out enough to keep them from bunching up.
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Old 07-14-12, 03:20 PM   #7
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Pretty sure la clinched one of his tour victories with a n itt victory on alp du juez
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Old 07-14-12, 04:06 PM   #8
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Pretty sure la clinched one of his tour victories with a n itt victory on alp du juez
Hinault, Merckx and Anquetil (aka "Monsieur Chrono") had much more impressive ITT records than Armstrong -- especially given that "Tour specialists" did not exist in their day, that they often had hilly TT's, and the earlier Tours had split stages (e.g. a stage race followed by a 12km ITT on the same day).

There's a lot more to cycle racing than one Yank....
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Old 07-14-12, 04:55 PM   #9
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Not an Armstrong fan myself. My point is to the original post that there have been mountain itt in the past and there will be mountain itt in the future
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Old 07-14-12, 10:58 PM   #10
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Not an Armstrong fan myself. My point is to the original post that there have been mountain itt in the past and there will be mountain itt in the future
Ok, thanks. I was assuming that the TT's were mainly held on flat ground. I will look forward to the next mountain ITT.
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Old 07-15-12, 04:22 AM   #11
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Ok, thanks. I was assuming that the TT's were mainly held on flat ground. I will look forward to the next mountain ITT.
Your assumption is correct. Again, they haven't done a hilly TT in over 10 years. You also won't see split stages (2 stages on the same day), which ended around the same time.
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Old 07-15-12, 05:01 AM   #12
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still want downhill tt's! am i the only one?! absolutely love to watch descending techniques...
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Old 07-19-12, 01:58 PM   #13
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Ok, thanks. I was assuming that the TT's were mainly held on flat ground. I will look forward to the next mountain ITT.
One problem now is that there seems to be a set in stone formula. One is exactly 2 ITTs. Making one of those shifts things too far in favor of the climbers.

I'd like to see an ITT that includes both climbing and significant decending. But there are significant problems. The differences in ability get magnified and worst case one rider catches and passes the one before him just before the top and the one passed is a better decender.

Not to mention issues with a crashed rider on course on a decent (and the impact it wouldhave on following riders).
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Old 07-19-12, 02:06 PM   #14
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Your assumption is correct. Again, they haven't done a hilly TT in over 10 years. You also won't see split stages (2 stages on the same day), which ended around the same time.
8 years ago. 2004 TDF stage 16 Alpe d'Huez ITT 15.5km
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/...esults/stage16
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Old 07-19-12, 02:48 PM   #15
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2001 was the most recent year the TdF did a real uphill ITT.
Who won that stage?

Thanks
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Old 07-19-12, 05:03 PM   #16
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Your assumption is correct. Again, they haven't done a hilly TT in over 10 years. You also won't see split stages (2 stages on the same day), which ended around the same time.
There have not been 2 stages on one day for far longer than 10 years.

EDIT: Loks like the last split stage TDF was 1982, a bit more recent than I thought it was. But jsut a bit. I knew there had split stages in 1974.

Last edited by Keith99; 07-19-12 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 07-19-12, 06:10 PM   #17
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What about a team time trial, has that ever been done in a tour? I guess it would have to be done early in the race before attrition whittled the teams down.
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Old 07-19-12, 06:18 PM   #18
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What about a team time trial, has that ever been done in a tour? I guess it would have to be done early in the race before attrition whittled the teams down.
Many times. Hate them.

Riders dislike them but many fans enjoy them.
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Old 07-19-12, 06:23 PM   #19
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Many times. Hate them.

Riders dislike them but many fans enjoy them.
How do Team Time Trials affect each individual's time in the GC? Does everyone in the team just get added the teams time?
Sorry about the noob questions, but this is very interesting.
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Old 07-20-12, 05:51 AM   #20
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8 years ago. 2004 TDF stage 16 Alpe d'Huez ITT 15.5km
http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/...esults/stage16
Yeah I was thinking of Alp d'Huez too
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Old 07-20-12, 05:56 AM   #21
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How do Team Time Trials affect each individual's time in the GC? Does everyone in the team just get added the teams time?
Sorry about the noob questions, but this is very interesting.
If you have a 9 man team you might give the first 5 guys over the line the time of the 5th guy. Then cyclists that come in after that get their own time. Some TTs also have time penalties for being slower by certain amounts than the winning team.
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Old 07-20-12, 06:50 AM   #22
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If you have a 9 man team you might give the first 5 guys over the line the time of the 5th guy. Then cyclists that come in after that get their own time. Some TTs also have time penalties for being slower by certain amounts than the winning team.
Thanks. Could get a bit complicated for some teams but it might be fun to watch.
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Old 07-20-12, 09:29 AM   #23
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What about a team time trial, has that ever been done in a tour? I guess it would have to be done early in the race before attrition whittled the teams down.
It has been done a lot and with a lot of variations. At one point it did not count toward individual standings. Others had just a small bonus impact on the individual standings. Recently it has been eitehr the actual time (of the 5th rider) counting for individual standing, though fairly recently it has been that with a maximum that can be lost.

As you point out it has to be early and if the total time is used the result is contenders are all but eliminated before they even have a chance to do anything as an individual. Which is why the tour organizers, most riders and many fans are not thrilled with TTTs.

Today there is a problem with super profesionalism. That is in the sense of being focused on just one goal. The TTT has to count for the GC or many teams will not try much, but if theams can get a large payoff it can ruin hte race. 30 years ago winning the TTT itself was enough to get a good if not total effort.
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Old 07-20-12, 12:36 PM   #24
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The uphill TT in the 2010 Giro was awesome.

Also, the obvious joke here is that Team Sky has been doing a team time trial this whole tour, including uphill TTTs on the mountain stages.
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