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  1. #1
    Senior Member letitsnow's Avatar
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    Why not TT a course like stage 11?

    That would be fun to watch!!
    "I'm pleased with the way I handled that moment because a few years ago I might have thrown my toys out of the pram and chucked my bike down the ravine!

  2. #2
    Senior Member letitsnow's Avatar
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    It looks like I am alone on this one. It would be fun to watch each rider do these climbs on their own. No looking at each other, no team helpers - just a race against the clock, through the mountains...
    "I'm pleased with the way I handled that moment because a few years ago I might have thrown my toys out of the pram and chucked my bike down the ravine!

  3. #3
    Riding like its 1990 thenomad's Avatar
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    No, too boring. Might as well watch baseball.



    You get a better dynamic for drame when there's a rider you want to beat or have to catch. It's also scientifically proven that head to head competition brings out the absolute best in riders.
    My blog about rides, bikes and builds: ridesgoneby.blogspot.com

  4. #4
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Actually, in the past many ITT's included significant climbs; e.g. 1987, stage 18 was an ITT up Mt Ventoux. The Giro did an ITT through Cinque Terre a few years ago. 2001 was the most recent year the TdF did a real uphill ITT.

    They also did more ITT's then. E.g. the average (including prologues) in the 80s was 3.6, in the 90s was 3, in the 00's 2.3.

  5. #5
    starting pistol means war YMCA's Avatar
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    Long, hilly TT's are a relic of early 20th century stage racing.
    The time gaps would be to be big to keep the excitement intact these days.

    Although, personally I'd like to see longer TT's occasionally too.

  6. #6
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YMCA View Post
    Long, hilly TT's are a relic of early 20th century stage racing.
    The time gaps would be to be big to keep the excitement intact these days.

    Although, personally I'd like to see longer TT's occasionally too.
    On a course like that, you couldn't keep the riders spread out enough to keep them from bunching up.

  7. #7
    Senior Member curiouskid55's Avatar
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    Pretty sure la clinched one of his tour victories with a n itt victory on alp du juez

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    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouskid55 View Post
    Pretty sure la clinched one of his tour victories with a n itt victory on alp du juez
    Hinault, Merckx and Anquetil (aka "Monsieur Chrono") had much more impressive ITT records than Armstrong -- especially given that "Tour specialists" did not exist in their day, that they often had hilly TT's, and the earlier Tours had split stages (e.g. a stage race followed by a 12km ITT on the same day).

    There's a lot more to cycle racing than one Yank....

  9. #9
    Senior Member curiouskid55's Avatar
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    Not an Armstrong fan myself. My point is to the original post that there have been mountain itt in the past and there will be mountain itt in the future

  10. #10
    Senior Member letitsnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiouskid55 View Post
    Not an Armstrong fan myself. My point is to the original post that there have been mountain itt in the past and there will be mountain itt in the future
    Ok, thanks. I was assuming that the TT's were mainly held on flat ground. I will look forward to the next mountain ITT.
    "I'm pleased with the way I handled that moment because a few years ago I might have thrown my toys out of the pram and chucked my bike down the ravine!

  11. #11
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by letitsnow View Post
    Ok, thanks. I was assuming that the TT's were mainly held on flat ground. I will look forward to the next mountain ITT.
    Your assumption is correct. Again, they haven't done a hilly TT in over 10 years. You also won't see split stages (2 stages on the same day), which ended around the same time.

  12. #12
    lead on macduff!
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    still want downhill tt's! am i the only one?! absolutely love to watch descending techniques...

  13. #13
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by letitsnow View Post
    Ok, thanks. I was assuming that the TT's were mainly held on flat ground. I will look forward to the next mountain ITT.
    One problem now is that there seems to be a set in stone formula. One is exactly 2 ITTs. Making one of those shifts things too far in favor of the climbers.

    I'd like to see an ITT that includes both climbing and significant decending. But there are significant problems. The differences in ability get magnified and worst case one rider catches and passes the one before him just before the top and the one passed is a better decender.

    Not to mention issues with a crashed rider on course on a decent (and the impact it wouldhave on following riders).
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    Your assumption is correct. Again, they haven't done a hilly TT in over 10 years. You also won't see split stages (2 stages on the same day), which ended around the same time.
    8 years ago. 2004 TDF stage 16 Alpe d'Huez ITT 15.5km
    http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/...esults/stage16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    2001 was the most recent year the TdF did a real uphill ITT.
    Who won that stage?

    Thanks

  16. #16
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    Your assumption is correct. Again, they haven't done a hilly TT in over 10 years. You also won't see split stages (2 stages on the same day), which ended around the same time.
    There have not been 2 stages on one day for far longer than 10 years.

    EDIT: Loks like the last split stage TDF was 1982, a bit more recent than I thought it was. But jsut a bit. I knew there had split stages in 1974.
    Last edited by Keith99; 07-19-12 at 05:14 PM.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  17. #17
    Senior Member rex615's Avatar
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    What about a team time trial, has that ever been done in a tour? I guess it would have to be done early in the race before attrition whittled the teams down.

  18. #18
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex615 View Post
    What about a team time trial, has that ever been done in a tour? I guess it would have to be done early in the race before attrition whittled the teams down.
    Many times. Hate them.

    Riders dislike them but many fans enjoy them.
    i may have overreacted

  19. #19
    Senior Member rex615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Many times. Hate them.

    Riders dislike them but many fans enjoy them.
    How do Team Time Trials affect each individual's time in the GC? Does everyone in the team just get added the teams time?
    Sorry about the noob questions, but this is very interesting.

  20. #20
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveF View Post
    8 years ago. 2004 TDF stage 16 Alpe d'Huez ITT 15.5km
    http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/...esults/stage16
    Yeah I was thinking of Alp d'Huez too

  21. #21
    nun
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex615 View Post
    How do Team Time Trials affect each individual's time in the GC? Does everyone in the team just get added the teams time?
    Sorry about the noob questions, but this is very interesting.
    If you have a 9 man team you might give the first 5 guys over the line the time of the 5th guy. Then cyclists that come in after that get their own time. Some TTs also have time penalties for being slower by certain amounts than the winning team.

  22. #22
    Senior Member rex615's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nun View Post
    If you have a 9 man team you might give the first 5 guys over the line the time of the 5th guy. Then cyclists that come in after that get their own time. Some TTs also have time penalties for being slower by certain amounts than the winning team.
    Thanks. Could get a bit complicated for some teams but it might be fun to watch.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rex615 View Post
    What about a team time trial, has that ever been done in a tour? I guess it would have to be done early in the race before attrition whittled the teams down.
    It has been done a lot and with a lot of variations. At one point it did not count toward individual standings. Others had just a small bonus impact on the individual standings. Recently it has been eitehr the actual time (of the 5th rider) counting for individual standing, though fairly recently it has been that with a maximum that can be lost.

    As you point out it has to be early and if the total time is used the result is contenders are all but eliminated before they even have a chance to do anything as an individual. Which is why the tour organizers, most riders and many fans are not thrilled with TTTs.

    Today there is a problem with super profesionalism. That is in the sense of being focused on just one goal. The TTT has to count for the GC or many teams will not try much, but if theams can get a large payoff it can ruin hte race. 30 years ago winning the TTT itself was enough to get a good if not total effort.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  24. #24
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    The uphill TT in the 2010 Giro was awesome.

    Also, the obvious joke here is that Team Sky has been doing a team time trial this whole tour, including uphill TTTs on the mountain stages.

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