Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30
  1. #1
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Grand Tours and Radios

    Did you guys see with yesterday's Olympic road race how a "no radio" policy can make for an exciting bicycle race.

    I say the UCI should ban the friggin team radios. They can use a single UCI/event organizer radio channel to warn racers of road hazards and such. The argument from the pro peloton always revolve around safety, so the single radio channel can take care of that.

    We are gonna keep having unexciting races as long as DS can shout locations, encouragements etc into their team members' ears.

    Discuss.
    Regards,

    Jed

  2. #2
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,986
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    While we're at it, how about no bike changes. Riders are allowed 1 wheel change. After that, they have to fix their own flats.

    And maybe we should just ban teams altogether. If anyone is seen helping anyone, automatic DQ.

    That would be so exciting...
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  3. #3
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You can't deny that radio has changed modern bicycle racing.

    I'll prefer you focus on that, rather than all the other stuff you mentioned.
    Regards,

    Jed

  4. #4
    Banned.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I support a ban on radios.

  5. #5
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    4,316
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
    While we're at it, how about no bike changes. Riders are allowed 1 wheel change. After that, they have to fix their own flats.

    And maybe we should just ban teams altogether. If anyone is seen helping anyone, automatic DQ.

    That would be so exciting...
    Jesus. Keep putting up strawmen and we'll keep knocking them down.

    No one is asking that these things be implemented.
    i may have overreacted

  6. #6
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,362
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    Did you guys see with yesterday's Olympic road race how a "no radio" policy can make for an exciting bicycle race.
    The lack of race radios isn't why the breaks succeeded. The peloton knew that 20+ men were off the front by less than 2 minutes.

    The reason why the break succeeded in this year's Olympic road race is because a 5-man team isn't powerful enough to control the race, and the other sprinter teams (e.g. Germany, Belgium) didn't want to help GB set up Cav.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19
    I say the UCI should ban the friggin team radios.
    Yes, I'm sure it will be much safer to have the DS driving right next to the riders and screaming at them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19
    We are gonna keep having unexciting races as long as DS can shout locations, encouragements etc into their team members' ears.
    Did you really not notice how many breaks went off the front in the last week or so of this year's TdF?

    Can you assert, with a straight face, that every exciting stage in every pro race since the late 90s has been boring? Were most of the people who kvetch about "zomg race radio boring" actually watching races in the 60s, 70s and 80s?

    Considering that there was no real time Internet updates, and TV coverage was basically a few hours of highlights on the weekends, I'm calling "whatever" on proclamations that racing has "gotten boring" due to race radios, or that getting rid of them will fix anything.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    3,819
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    The lack of race radios isn't why the breaks succeeded. The peloton knew that 20+ men were off the front by less than 2 minutes.

    The reason why the break succeeded in this year's Olympic road race is because a 5-man team isn't powerful enough to control the race, and the other sprinter teams (e.g. Germany, Belgium) didn't want to help GB set up Cav.
    I did not say the lack of radio was the reason the break succeeded. I said it makes for a more interesting and exciting race.

    It is true re: the Belgians and Germans were not about to help set up Cavendish, but I also believe a DS with radio could have changed the tactic of the English riders,(which was pull each other to death to deliver Cav to the sprint) and communicate same to them. In the heat of battle, the English riders could not read the race well and adjust their tactics accordingly. That is my point.
    Regards,

    Jed

  8. #8
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,986
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    You can't deny that radio has changed modern bicycle racing.
    Many things have changed modern bicycle racing, for better or worse.

    However, the 2-way radio, which is apparently some kind of new-fangled gizmo that's only been around for decades, is the only one worthy of attention.

    I hear there's even newer technology just over the horizon. It's like a telephone but without wires.
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  9. #9
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,986
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    It is true re: the Belgians and Germans were not about to help set up Cavendish, but I also believe a DS with radio could have changed the tactic of the English riders,(which was pull each other to death to deliver Cav to the sprint) and communicate same to them. In the heat of battle, the English riders could not read the race well and adjust their tactics accordingly. That is my point.
    And change their tactics how exactly? GB didn't stand a chance, and radios wouldn't have helped.

    What made the race particularly interesting were the small, unevenly matched teams. It essentially turned the race into a free-for-all, particularly well suited for guys like Vino.

    You'll be happy to know that another similar race will take place in Rio just 4 years from now.
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  10. #10
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,362
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +1

    I don't see what additional options GB would gain with radios. I mean, really, were they going to slip Wiggo into the break? Why would they need radios to do that?

    Even without radios, I'm sure they knew that the break was huge and contained several top riders, and I have little doubt GB did everything they could to close it down in the last 25km. They just miscalculated, as did Germany and Belgium.

  11. #11
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    MDR, CA
    Posts
    1,215
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
    Many things have changed modern bicycle racing, for better or worse.

    However, the 2-way radio, which is apparently some kind of new-fangled gizmo that's only been around for decades, is the only one worthy of attention.

    I hear there's even newer technology just over the horizon. It's like a telephone but without wires.
    You obviously have no clue about what you're talking..um, about
    I remember the days before race radios...
    no mass crashes at the Tour; there were never EVER pack finishes in the stages--breakaways ALWAYS succeeded;
    cycling was more exciting, and we KNOW this because cycling was far more popular in many more countries than it is
    today. Nowadays, with race radios, pro-cycling is limited to a few countries in western europe, unlike the non-radio halcyon
    days where the excitement of pro cycling was a global phenomenon. Nope, now all we see are boring races caused by race
    radios, mass crashes, caused by race radios. It's no wonder why pro-cycling is the least popular it has ever been all over the world!

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    9
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I consider two-way radios important, although some have mentioned here that before, there were less crashes and accidents, etc., I don't think the radios were at fault, but it's with the rider.

  13. #13
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Galt Gulch
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
    Posts
    10,043
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Lack of radios realy does one thing...delays the info the riders get. Race radio will still report the break and chase times via motorcycle and a blackboard. The other thing is that they really cannot discuss strategy, but in depth discussion of that did not happen before because others can listen.
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  14. #14
    Senior Member roadwarrior's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Galt Gulch
    My Bikes
    Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
    Posts
    10,043
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    You obviously have no clue about what you're talking..um, about
    I remember the days before race radios...
    no mass crashes at the Tour; there were never EVER pack finishes in the stages--breakaways ALWAYS succeeded;
    cycling was more exciting, and we KNOW this because cycling was far more popular in many more countries than it is
    today. Nowadays, with race radios, pro-cycling is limited to a few countries in western europe, unlike the non-radio halcyon
    days where the excitement of pro cycling was a global phenomenon. Nope, now all we see are boring races caused by race
    radios, mass crashes, caused by race radios. ]It's no wonder why pro-cycling is the least popular it has ever been all over the world!
    Got a link for this statement?
    "Nothing is so typical of middling minds than to harp on the intellectual deficiencies of the slightly less smart, but considerably more successful."
    Bret Stephens, WSJ

  15. #15
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,986
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
    Many things have changed modern bicycle racing, for better or worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    You obviously have no clue about what you're talking..um, about
    Actually, you have no clue what I was talking..um, about. Nothing you said has any relevance to what I said.
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  16. #16
    Lance Hater Laggard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    4,316
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    Lack of radios realy does one thing...delays the info the riders get. Race radio will still report the break and chase times via motorcycle and a blackboard. The other thing is that they really cannot discuss strategy, but in depth discussion of that did not happen before because others can listen.
    Race radios enable directors to micro manage what their rider is doing. Cyclists no longer have to keep track of who is in a break, if and when to start a chase and when doing so how hard they need to ride. Every single thing they do is because their director told them to. It would be like an American NFL quarterback not only getting the next play radioed to him but the coach telling him what receivers were open and who to throw to while the play was unfolding.

    Can we at least agree that televisions should be removed from the directors cars?
    i may have overreacted

  17. #17
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,986
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    I did not say the lack of radio was the reason the break succeeded. I said it makes for a more interesting and exciting race.
    Okay, but the only reason why people are saying it was an interesting and exciting race was because the break succeeded.
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  18. #18
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    6,362
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TScott27 View Post
    I consider two-way radios important, although some have mentioned here that before, there were less crashes and accidents, etc., I don't think the radios were at fault, but it's with the rider.
    Quote Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
    Got a link for this statement?
    I think cat4lifer was being sarcastic.

  19. #19
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,986
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    I remember the days before race radios...
    no mass crashes at the Tour; there were never EVER pack finishes in the stages--breakaways ALWAYS succeeded;
    cycling was more exciting, and we KNOW this because cycling was far more popular in many more countries than it is
    today. Nowadays, with race radios, pro-cycling is limited to a few countries in western europe,
    All of that due to race radios huh? Nothing to do with:

    - Live television and resulting sponsorship
    - A more international field resulting in more evenly matched riders
    - Power meters on the bikes
    - Bike technology plateauing
    - Improved sports medicine

    Okay, if you say so...
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  20. #20
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    MDR, CA
    Posts
    1,215
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
    Actually, you have no clue what I was talking..um, about. Nothing you said has any relevance to what I said.
    You know something. you have a point there.

  21. #21
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    MDR, CA
    Posts
    1,215
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    I think cat4lifer was being sarcastic.
    Sarcasm: I see you haz it too. lol

  22. #22
    Senior Member MUZE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    West Hills, CA
    My Bikes
    Scott CR 1
    Posts
    140
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There is racing? Wow, most of the time there is just a bunch of guys riding around in a group.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,789
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
    All of that due to race radios huh? Nothing to do with:

    - Live television and resulting sponsorship
    - A more international field resulting in more evenly matched riders
    - Power meters on the bikes
    - Bike technology plateauing
    - Improved sports medicine

    Okay, if you say so...
    Gosh did the sarcasm go right over your head.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  24. #24
    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    1,986
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith99 View Post
    Gosh did the sarcasm go right over your head.
    It did, apparently. Yikes...
    "I just googled triple crank set and i see what your saying. this bike has 9 of those "cranksets".
    "They are showing [the TDF of Versus] at 5 different times in the day. It doesn't say which one is the live one."

  25. #25
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,789
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Laggard View Post
    Race radios enable directors to micro manage what their rider is doing. Cyclists no longer have to keep track of who is in a break, if and when to start a chase and when doing so how hard they need to ride. Every single thing they do is because their director told them to. It would be like an American NFL quarterback not only getting the next play radioed to him but the coach telling him what receivers were open and who to throw to while the play was unfolding.

    Can we at least agree that televisions should be removed from the directors cars?
    If I were a director I'd hate the idea of losing my TV. And I think they are justified in a way. Sort of unfair for everyone second guessing them to actually have far more information than they do.

    I have second thoughts about doing away with race radios also. Mainly because of how the trailing cars are determined. No radio serves to increase the advantage of the leading teams.

    Going back to football. They have radios, but only for one player. Why not the same for cycling? For a second I was thinking that would be bad as defensive communications mioght be better, and that is sort of true, but communicating to the team car when in a break is not that difficult.
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •