sci_femme

I have a funny impression that Rodriguez takes certain pleasure in frustrating Contador time and time again? And Contador just doesn't learn - he attacks and attacks and attacks only to wear himself up and come up with nothing.

Another observation - other team's riders are willing to work with Rodriguez in exchange for other favors, but it takes team car to bark orders to make Saxo work with Contador?

My heart bleeds for Froome.....I want to feed him cookies, lots and lots of cookies...

MinnMan

Contador may be somewhat demoralized by those finishes. He has made some heroic attacks in the last 1-2 km, only to have Rodriguez dust him when his attacks are spent. But don't count Contador out - there's more racing to be done and he's not that far back.

I too feel sorry for Froome. I agree with many others that he looked stronger than Wiggins during the Tour and came in second only because that was what his team had agreed on in advance, but he just doesn't have the legs to win these incredible uphill finishes.

DXchulo

You can't really knock Contador for trying. He's doing what he does best with his attacks, but Purito is on the form of his life and won't be dropped. It wouldn't make any sense for him to save his energy for the end. Purito is way better in the sprint and would beat him every single time.

He may be frustrated, but he shouldn't be demoralized yet. He still has a chance on Stage 20 and 28 seconds isn't impossible, especially with time bonuses.

Bacciagalupe

“Win or lose, I am enjoying this Vuelta. Our team rode perfect today and we gave everything. Purito is proving very strong. We’re still in the race. There are still five days to go. Anything can happen.”

Contador probably realizes he'll take 2nd place if Purito doesn't completely blow up over the next few days, but I don't think he's really "demoralized." Heck, he can't feel all that bad about blowing the doors off of everyone except Rodriguez, after being sidelined for a year.

DXchulo

Yeah, chances are high that he'll win the TDF next year.

ultraman6970

Well, if rodriguez improves the ITT then he might be a headache for everybody in the Tour.

MinnMan

I don't know if Contador will win the TdF next year. The team aspects are so much more important there, and Sky was just so strong this year. I don't think Contador has any particular ITT advantage over Wiggins and not much on Froome. Does anyone think that Saxobank can provide the kind of support in the mountains that the Sky team is able?

But I hope he or *somebody* does something to shake up the Tour. Sky's dominance was impressive to contemplate from afar, and boring to watch each day.

Meanwhile.....

PURITO!

colombo357

Depends on the course. On an uphill finish, the team aspects are much less important. You don't need a teammate pacing you up an HC climb when you have an SRM. It's those flat finishes that come 10km after an HC climb that favor those with strong teams.

ultraman6970

Minnman, actually AC can climb so well that basically he doesnt need support in the mountains, maybe in flats to catch or to carry him in the front of the group to keep him out of troubles but in a climb? the guy can do what nobody can do and we saw him attacking like 20 times in one stage w/o any problem, do you really think he needs support besides maybe 1 guy in case he needs a wheel or something... so far from what I have seen in this vuelta the top world climbers up to this point are contador and rodriguez.

Since wiggo does not climb they have to just push the bottons all the way up with one steady hard pace because he can't do what contador, rodriguez and now valverde can do. Look at the vuelta, contador just blow them appart with his accelerations because they can't match him, even the colombians in team sky that arent bad climbers couldn't match him and just blown trying to keep Frooome in 3rd place, yesterday sky did nothing but pacing frooome and they blown to pieces way before they were even in the hardest parts of the road. Wiggo and sky got lucky because many of the top climbers and riders that wouldnt care about the tow train used by the team were not in the race. Rider Hesjedal went home, rodriguez was not there, contador neither. I dont count the schleps because sincerely are pretty bad and they need support in the mountains. Contador, rodriguez and hesjedal (from what I saw in the giro), those 3 do no need support at all in a mountain stage.

Valverde has no team either (just saying the things straight), he is just sucking wheel (he cant do anything else anyways)but darn, still cant figure it out how he is still standing with AC attacks.

With contador, rodriguez and valverde as they are climbing right now there is no way for sky to make it with frooome or wiggo next year to the podium. Not even darn Schleps cant do more than 2 wuzzy attacks in a row, if they have done such a thing. never seen them attacking and deffending as AC, rodriguez and valverde ever. Do you think AS would have been able to stand 10 attacks in a row as contador does?? The sucker looks non human and after seeing him in action I really think that after the 3rd attack AS would have stop pedaling and complaining that is unfair because AC is not-human and he shouldn't be allowed to race because he can't match him.

Wow that was long...

Bacciagalupe

Teammates are vital in the mountains. Contador frequently paces off of Navarro, and worked a bit with Sanchez in last year's TdF; Voight often carved a path for GC guys, Andy Schleck often relied on Frank in the mountains, and needed Monfort and Roche up the road when he took a flyer on last year's stage 18. And, of course, we saw the benefits of a strong climbing team, yet again, this year.

Bacciagalupe

Yeah, not so much. The key is that he can usually outclimb everyone, so he leaves teammates behind when he attacks or accelerates and goes up the road. He still needs support though, even in the mountains.


erk?


That doesn't mean he can't climb, it means his technique is different. Rather than attack or chase down riders who attack off the front, he & Sky gradually increase their pace until they catch the guy who's gone off. The strategy works only because Wiggins is able to maintain very high paces on steep climbs -- even if he isn't quite as much a pure climber as Froome.

Depending on the lineups and profiles next year, we'll have to see if Contador can put enough distance on Sky/Wiggings/Froome next year for that strategy not to work.


Look at the TdF, Sky chased down everyone who went off the front, took 1st and 2nd place, buried Nibali by 6 minutes, Van den Broeck by 10, Evans by 15.

Sky/Froome also burned up a lot of resources already this year at the Dauphine, TdF and Olympics, which were obviously their big goals. We'll actually have to see how Contador (without Navarro) does against Sky next year, assuming that Sky can figure out the potential conflict between Wiggins and Froome.


Uh yeah, so does everyone.

Wake up and smell the quetscheflued. Andy is one of the best climbers out there, and we've seen over and over again that he's one of the few riders who can keep up with Contador on his best days.


There's more to stage racing than one rider attacking. Maybe you'll figure that out one of these days.

paperbackwriter

Rodriguez won't demoralize Contador- Contador lacks racing days but he's doing everything he can to make up for that. There are few (if any) GC riders who would be able to fight like him in his situation. Rodriguez himself was there few times and not only (obviously) failed to win but also failed to be aggresive enough- we all used to blame him for not trying sometimes. Of course it was always kind of silly to blame someone for smth like that while sitting on the coach but the point is, whatever happens, Contador won't have any regrets.

I like Rodriguez, I was happy when he left Caisse and became team leader and despite slightly prefering Contador's win I'm also happy he finally matured enough to be able to win a GT when things go his way.
But I think some people are getting overexcited. Purito is great on steep climbs, especially if they come after not so long and not so hard mountain stages (though I admit he got better on big mountain stages too). And he'd still lose lots of time in flat TT. Plus don't forget almost all of his advantage comes from bonus seconds. In other words, Vuelta suits him well but he's still a limited rider and he's unlikely to ever win the Tour. (On the other hand, I used to think the same about Evans and Wiggins.)
And he isn't a better climber than Andy Schleck. Both Rodriguez and Valverde are more consistent throughout the season, respect every race they take part in (which means they will outclimb Andy Schleck in races like Tirreno, Paris-Nice, Romandie, Pais Vasco 9 times out of 10) and I'd say all in all they're more gutsy and better to watch. But when all 4 (Andy, Purito, Valverde and Contador) are 100%, I'm pretty sure Andy and Alberto will still show their backs to everyone. Another question is whether Andy's strong enough to get back to the top (and could it happen as soon as next year)- but let's hope so.

gsteinb

so do we have an answer to the op?

cthenn

I guess that's why Contador races, and you just comment? Never give up until the final meter! Looks like he attacked pretty well today wouldn't you say? Also, who needs teammates when a guy on another team will help you haha!

Unless you attack with 80k's to go and not leave it until the end... Purito is on a bad day, but it's clear he still doesn't have the engine to go full gas all day. He's still suited for the punchy finishes as opposed to a full day of hard, grinding climbs.

eduardo76

holy vuelta! demoralizing was purito crossing the line with only saxo bank and movistar riders riding his wheel over 2 mins back...katusha's team meeting won't be fun tonight...

colombo357

Agreed, it appears Saxo made the same assessment today.

jtrem14

Katusha really let Purito down. Where was Menchov?

jtrem14

Well, So much for Contador being demoralized. It looks like he demoralized the entire Peloton and GC.

Bacciagalupe

Apparently, we do.

Of course, let's not forget so quickly that anyone can have a bad day; today it's Rodriguez, in a few days it could be Contador. But you don't win by settling for 2nd place, or getting discouraged by a rival.

ultraman6970

Today was a bad day for rodriguez, but he stand his position alone and thats remarkable. I'm sure he will go for it in the Bola del Mundo. Old style of racing, that day the pace making will be maybe close or even faster than today's Valverde won't win but who knows, Rodriguez needs time now, he will go for it.

benlees

No doubt. I only watched the last 30km. What happened to Katusha? Epic team blunder, it appears.

Thulsadoom

I was kind of thinking the same thing. I didn't get to see the whole thing, how exactly did Contador get away?

tagaproject6

Wow! Just wow! That 50 km to the finish push by Contador was well played.

Commodus

I think he sent a couple teammates up the road, and then attacked and bridged up to them. They hammered to stay away from the chasers, and when they were spent he broke away with Tiralongo and used him up before soloing away.

Bertie is just a much better TTer than his chasers, so really he just TTed away from them. It kinda makes sense when you think about it like that, not that anyone was predicting it.

ultraman6970

IMO the idea was to get time from Rodriguez but the win and the broke away with tiralongo was a fortuitous situation he took advantage of. If you notice he went for the bonus time sprint, tiralongo was the only one following him. Probably they let him know or they looked back and noticed the other guys just stopped pedaling, I been in those situations and you have to just man up and just go for it. Either way the whole situation was just perfectly mastered.