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  1. #1
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Report: seven out of eight PDM riders doped at 1988 Tour de France

    More here.

    A Dutch newspaper has alleged that seven of the eight riders on the PDM team at the 1988 Tour de France were using banned substances. Volksrant has published extracts from the notebook used by soigneur Bertus Fok during the race, in which he details the substances administered to the riders...

    Foks notebook, photographs of which are published on the Volksrant website, provides details of the substances he administered to his riders during the Tour. The substances and practices used by PDM riders on the race allegedly include testosterone, corticosteroids and blood transfusions. It remains unclear whether EPO was in use in the peloton as early as 1988, but Fok said that he did not administer it at PDM...

  2. #2
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    I think EPO in the late 80's was still the domain of the Iron Curtain countries and possibly cross-country skiing. EPO took off cycling in the early 90's; we can tell because nobody know how much to use, and some people went too far and caused their blood to have so many red blood cells it turned their blood into a substance resembling treacle. Which is why so many young riders were having heart attacks at 5:00 am... at less than 30 beats a minutes, their bodies couldn't cope with pumping blood that thick and simply stalled. #notagreatwaytogo

  3. #3
    Senior Member mprelaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordy748 View Post
    I think EPO in the late 80's was still the domain of the Iron Curtain countries and possibly cross-country skiing. EPO took off cycling in the early 90's; we can tell because nobody know how much to use, and some people went too far and caused their blood to have so many red blood cells it turned their blood into a substance resembling treacle. Which is why so many young riders were having heart attacks at 5:00 am... at less than 30 beats a minutes, their bodies couldn't cope with pumping blood that thick and simply stalled. #notagreatwaytogo
    Nothing in Fok's notebook about transfusions, but I'm sure that cyclists were using them by 1988. The entire US Olympic cycling team was transfusing in 1984. It was legal until 1986.

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    ... K.Katso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mprelaw View Post
    Nothing in Fok's notebook about transfusions
    Yes there is.



    "Zakje bloed" means "bag of blood."

    He gives a pretty good description of what they took, when they took it, and the results they got from it.

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    Senior Member mprelaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Katso View Post
    Yes there is.



    "Zakje bloed" means "bag of blood."

    He gives a pretty good description of what they took, when they took it, and the results they got from it.
    My bad. My Dutch is a wee bit rusty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mprelaw View Post
    Nothing in Fok's notebook about transfusions, but I'm sure that cyclists were using them by 1988. The entire US Olympic cycling team was transfusing in 1984. It was legal until 1986.
    80's? Long before that, I'm sure. I remember rumours that Lasse Viren was using blood transfusions for the 72 & 76 Olympics. Athletes knew the benefits of blood transfusions long before 1980.

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    Greg Lemond is starting to look suspect.....

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    Senior Member classic1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveF View Post
    80's? Long before that, I'm sure. I remember rumours that Lasse Viren was using blood transfusions for the 72 & 76 Olympics. Athletes knew the benefits of blood transfusions long before 1980.
    Rumors are that Gastone Nencini was blood doping in the 1960's

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    Behind EVERYone!!! baj32161's Avatar
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    I am getting a bit weary with all of this. At this point, I am just going to save myself the aggravation and figure that the entire peloton of that era was doping. Now....do I really care?....No, but I would love nothing more than to see the sport completely cleaned up.
    A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence.

    ― Bruce Lee

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    Senior Member classic1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angio Graham View Post
    Greg Lemond is starting to look suspect.....
    That would be the same Greg Lemond who left PDM, in part because of some of the 'expectations' of the team?

    1989.....

    http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-..._1_greg-lemond

  11. #11
    Senior Member eja_ bottecchia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic1 View Post
    That would be the same Greg Lemond who left PDM, in part because of some of the 'expectations' of the team?

    1989.....

    http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-..._1_greg-lemond
    That report does not make it entirely clear whether drug use by PDM was the primary reason for Greg's departure. One is left tomwonder whether if a financial deal been ibtained if Greg would have still left the team.

    In other words would he have stayed if PDM paid him enough. Guess we will never know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic1 View Post
    That would be the same Greg Lemond who left PDM, in part because of some of the 'expectations' of the team?

    1989.....

    http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-..._1_greg-lemond
    Quotes in the article:
    Stanko said LeMond worried that PDM officials would not take no for an answer, believing they might try to put an anabolic steroid into his drink. Steroids are synthetic derivatives of testosterone that can be injected or swallowed. "He never knew from one day to the next whether they would slip him something," Stanko said.

    Harry Jansen, a PDM spokesman, denied Stanko's charges. "He should watch what he says," Jansen said by telephone from the Netherlands. "He might have a judicial problem."
    Dopers were threatening legal action whistle-blowers then too.

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    Senior Member mprelaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
    Quotes in the article:


    Dopers were threatening legal action whistle-blowers then too.
    Save your breath. Despite the fact that there has never been even a credible rumor that LeMond doped, despite the fact that both Hinault and Fignon---neither of whom had any love for him and who were critical of him for other things---maintained that he always rode clean, despite the fact that he rode for an anti-doping fanatic in Koechli when he was with La Vie Claire, and despite the fact that he was calling for tighter controls while he was still winning yellows, the fanbois will always say, "but, but, everyone was doing it, so he must have been too".
    Last edited by mprelaw; 01-29-13 at 08:45 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member mprelaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveF View Post
    80's? Long before that, I'm sure. I remember rumours that Lasse Viren was using blood transfusions for the 72 & 76 Olympics. Athletes knew the benefits of blood transfusions long before 1980.
    Yup, and the chances are pretty good that a Finnish cop didn't discover it all on his own. It was probably being done in the Eastern Bloc back into the 1960s. Although Lasse did train at altitude in Africa prior to both Olympiads. He still denies blood doping, for what it's worth.

  15. #15
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baj32161 View Post
    I am getting a bit weary with all of this. At this point, I am just going to save myself the aggravation and figure that the entire peloton of that era was doping. Now....do I really care?....No, but I would love nothing more than to see the sport completely cleaned up.
    Keep it up Armstrong interns! That's one more you've worn out!
    Everyone chant along with me now: Lance is good, everyone doped, and the only ones who didn't dope are somehow to blame for Lance's cheating and lying. They're all crybabies & attention wh0r3s on a witch hunt! Lance is good, everyone doped... (repeat 3 times...)

  16. #16
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by classic1 View Post
    That would be the same Greg Lemond who left PDM, in part because of some of the 'expectations' of the team?

    1989.....

    http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-..._1_greg-lemond
    man, PDM really ****ed that up...
    Delgado leaves PDM at the end of '87, and wins the TDF in '88.
    Lemond leaves PDM at the end of '88, and wins the TDF in '89.

  17. #17
    Unobtanium-Based Lifeform calamarichris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer View Post
    man, PDM really ****ed that up...
    Delgado leaves PDM at the end of '87, and wins the TDF in '88.
    Lemond leaves PDM at the end of '88, and wins the TDF in '89.
    Clever parallel, except that Delgado was busted for doping, but Lemond went on to win the Tour clean again, and remains the Only American to Have Ever Won the Tour de France. Oh yeah, and he was also the only one who advocated increased doping controls while he was still competing and winning as a professional racer.
    Armstrong would almost certainly have done that too, if he wasn't so busy suing and defaming all the honest people who were trying to tell us the truth about him. There are only so many hours in a day, right?
    And then there was that mention of Dr. Ferrari, which led to your Hero Armstrong being exposed as a liar, a fraud, and a cheat, which was the original incentive behind your initiating this thread in the first place, since it casually infers that doping is okay, because every rider in history (except for Lemond, and probably not Hinault) did it too.

  18. #18
    Velo Club La Grange Cat4Lifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    Clever parallel, except that Delgado was busted for doping, but Lemond went on to win the Tour clean again, and remains the Only American to Have Ever Won the Tour de France. Oh yeah, and he was also the only one who advocated increased doping controls while he was still competing and winning as a professional racer.
    Armstrong would almost certainly have done that too, if he wasn't so busy suing and defaming all the honest people who were trying to tell us the truth about him. There are only so many hours in a day, right?
    And then there was that mention of Dr. Ferrari, which led to your Hero Armstrong being exposed as a liar, a fraud, and a cheat, which was the original incentive behind your initiating this thread in the first place, since it casually infers that doping is okay, because every rider in history (except for Lemond, and probably not Hinault) did it too.
    LMAO WTF
    I was talking about PDM losing two riders that went on to win the TDF the year following their departure, and how they (PDM) ****ed that up, I wasn't even talking about, hinting at, or even thinking about doping. I'm not sure where you saw that in my post. But if you'd remove your face from the chamois of the used Lemond bibs you won on ebay more often, you might have seen that.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by calamarichris View Post
    but Lemond went on to win the Tour clean again, and remains the Only American to Have Ever Won the Tour de France.
    No, Lance Armstrong won the Tour 7 times and Landis won it once.

    They crossed the finish line first.

  20. #20
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mprelaw View Post
    Nothing in Fok's notebook about transfusions, but I'm sure that cyclists were using them by 1988. The entire US Olympic cycling team was transfusing in 1984. It was legal until 1986.
    The entire US Olympic Team was not in on the transfusions. In the road races the highest medal winner riding with a transfusion was Rebecca Twigg. Neither Carpenter or Grewal were thought to be in on it. I doubt if Grewal would need to lie about it since it was legal and he's admitted to everything else he doped for including his wins in the "Bob Cook Memorial"
    Last edited by Zinger; 03-16-13 at 04:17 PM.

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