badhat

like

you all sound just like lance apologists talking about his heart being a third larger than a normal persons. "i feel sorry for you if you cant believe in miracles"

over and over again excuses and rationalizations

this time is always different

chasm54

This isn't the place for an argument about the effectiveness of BCs programmes, but I don't share your opinion about their success. The BC hierarchy are principally interested in the velodrome, it is all about medals for them. I know a rider who has recently come off the ODP. He wasn't much interested in the track, so they pretty much lost interest in him, despite the fact that he is very classy on the road. And I certainly don't think the go-ride programme is up to much.

More to the point, however, with regard to your statement here, is that Sky aren't really run by BC.They are run by Brailsford. That is a very different thing, because while Brailsford is employed by BC, he is really a law unto himself. The idea that the CEO of British Cycling knows what Brailsford is doing, or would feel able to tell him what to do, is absurd. Brailsford delivers the medals, Brailsford calls the shots. If Brailsford decided to dope the riders - I'm not saying he has - but if he did, nobody in the BC hierarchy would have a clue.

I don't think that would be open to them. Sky proccycling is a legal entity separate from BC.

I do agree with you that were team Sky to be caught doping, the consequences for the sport in the UK would be apocalyptic. That isn't necessarily conclusive, though. Clever people who cheat do so in the belief that they won't be caught. The question for me is, if they are doping, what are they on and how come nobody else appears to know about it?

I had no difficulty believing in Wiggo's performance last year, it seemed pretty much in line with his development since he committed himself to the road. Froome looks suspiciously dominant, though. I'm inclined to keep an open mind and see what develops.

RoyIII

Since Lance, any exceptional performance - like today - presumes doping. Makes pro cycling almost impossible to enjoy, because I know I am getting jaked by the phony supermen. World-Wide-Wrestling on bicycles. I wish they would quit treating us fans like fools. It's pie-in-the-sky naiveté to treat this result otherwise. "This time it really is different"

Jseis 

Thanks for posting this.

gpsblake

Counter argument.

1. USPS, are, essentially, run by the United States Government, the US governing body. Are you saying that they're corrupt? Is so, evidence that Armstrong and co. are doping would destroy the sport in the USA, not just the USPS team.

I don't think they are doping but to have two riders that strong does lead people to question the sport, and with it's history rightfully so.

Another way to put it, Froome's time up that mountain is the 3rd best in history, the previous 2 done by known cheaters.

badhat

lets be clear

this didnt start with lance

sprince

They are perpetual motion rings with little magnets that tap power directly from the earth's magnetic field. Watch closely after stages and you'll notice that he has to lock them in place to keep his bike from taking off on it's own.

ct-vt-trekker

Probably because he is no longer doping, he just can't take the chance now. No doubt in my mind the entire Sky team is doping. It may take a few years to come out but we will be reading about it in the future.
BMC is mos likely clean, as is Garmin.

Waxbytes

Of course doping didn't start with Lance, but I do think that Armstrong and Dr Ferrari got it down to a science and a system better than anyone before them. 7 TDFs in a row is very impressive, especially if you consider that many or even most of the rivals had their own "programs".

Todays result on Ax-3-Domaines has a suspicious familiarity to it.

kenji666

Yeah, but if UCI took it seriously, it could END with Lance.

sprince

I see a few possible explanations for Sky today. One is that 85% of the world's best grand tour riders had a really, really bad day on the very same day, Sky really does have some kind of superior training methodology, Sky's wheels are not in fact round and the chain rings are magic, or Sky has made a strategic blunder and will regret the decision to commit to defending the jersey for two straight weeks. Of course there is one more possibility, but I'll just wait about 30 days to see what happens rather than speculate.

bbattle

I remember a stage where Ricci and Piepoli tag teamed attacks in the Giro. Gradient of 20% and they made it look like child's play. and yes, they did get busted for doping.

Froome and Porte DECIMATED the entire peloton today. Smells really, really bad. Like Michael Rasmussen winning a time trial bad.

RoyIII

That is true. Lance is just the current scandal

canam73

What is an acceptable power to weight for a top level clean climber on a 20+ minute climb?

grolby

Give me a break. I'm not defending nobody. I'm saying that this one climb does not conclusively prove anything. And I submit your belief that Quintana "didn't crack" as proof that YOU don't know WTF you're talking about to the point that you could draw any reliable conclusions about who's doping vs. not. Quintana slowed down on the second climb - the data is now out there to show this.

Only a fool wouldn't have their eyebrows raised to the ceiling seeing Froome's power numbers on that climb. Believe me, I was feeling a little sick after that stage, we haven't seen a climb that fast except from known dopers. But that's just not the same as saying that the climb is definitive proof of doping. It just isn't.

cincipeddler

Shouldn't we be as surprised that the belkin riders mollema and ten dam made light work of the climb compared to the ''stars'' also?

I have my doubts about sky personally, i believe they have some revolutionary method as yet not ''out there''....so are ahead of the curve.

Its a real shame that this years race is now as good as dead, not good from the average tour fans perspective, many only look in at TDF time and after lasts years monotonous ride, this year looks to be going the same way.

Mike F

Does that mean he has to pedal backwards in the Tour Down Under?

Andy_K 

No, what I'm saying is more like "what goes on between consenting adults...."

Anyway, this whole discussion is like making people listen to an explanation of how a magic trick works. It spoils the fun and the explanation is probably wrong anyway.

KantoBoy

Still shocked on how Contador (+ lieutenant), Valverde, Purito, Quintana were ALL dropped today...and Porte was still going like a robot after that HUGEEEEEE effort.

I believe the Tour's over. It's a race for 3rd, KOM, Green (although I think Sagan's going to take this home) and White.

[TABLE="width: 620"]
[TR="class: even, bgcolor: #E9E7E7"]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]GBRFROOME Christopher[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]1[/TD]
[TD]SKY PROCYCLING[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 15' 55''[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]AUSPORTE Richie[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]6[/TD]
[TD]SKY PROCYCLING[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 16' 46''[/TD]
[TD]+ 00' 51''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even, bgcolor: #E9E7E7"]
[TD]3.[/TD]
[TD]ESPVALVERDE Alejandro[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]121[/TD]
[TD]MOVISTAR TEAM[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 17' 20''[/TD]
[TD]+ 01' 25''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]
[TD]4.[/TD]
[TD]NEDMOLLEMA Bauke[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]164[/TD]
[TD]BELKIN PRO CYCLING[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 17' 39''[/TD]
[TD]+ 01' 44''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even, bgcolor: #E9E7E7"]
[TD]5.[/TD]
[TD]NEDTEN DAM Laurens[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]167[/TD]
[TD]BELKIN PRO CYCLING[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 17' 45''[/TD]
[TD]+ 01' 50''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]
[TD]6.[/TD]
[TD]CZEKREUZIGER Roman[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]94[/TD]
[TD]TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 17' 46''[/TD]
[TD]+ 01' 51''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even, bgcolor: #E9E7E7"]
[TD]7.[/TD]
[TD]ESPCONTADOR Alberto[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]91[/TD]
[TD]TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 17' 46''[/TD]
[TD]+ 01' 51''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]
[TD]8.[/TD]
[TD]COLQUINTANA ROJAS Nairo Alexander[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]128[/TD]
[TD]MOVISTAR TEAM[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 17' 57''[/TD]
[TD]+ 02' 02''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: even, bgcolor: #E9E7E7"]
[TD]9.[/TD]
[TD]ESPRODRIGUEZ OLIVER Joaquin[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]101[/TD]
[TD]KATUSHA TEAM[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 18' 26''[/TD]
[TD]+ 02' 31''[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="bgcolor: #F9F9F9"]
[TD]10.[/TD]
[TD]AUSROGERS Michael[/TD]
[TD="class: col_3"]98[/TD]
[TD]TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF[/TD]
[TD="class: col_5"]32h 18' 35''[/TD]
[TD]+ 02' 40''
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


lol.

cthenn

No one addressed this, but Froome's face spoke volumes. He made LA look like he was suffering on climbs. I'm watching this with my GF, who doesn't watch this stuff nearly as much as I do, and even she kept saying "fake" when Froome would stick the tongue out and grit his teeth. He wasn't working hard at all. Sorry, but that was an act. When he comes across the line, all of a sudden that pain went away and his smile showed how good he was really feeling. What someone posted earlier is correct, these UK/Sky guys are on something that is yet undetectable.

Tell me how Porte blows himself up on the last climb, launching Froome, and then STILL get up to finish second? Has that ever been done? Every other rider who sets a pace for someone blows themselves up, then finish well behind the pack. But Porte does that, then recovers to finish second, by a long margin? LOL people are writing novels defending Sky, but MY EYES are telling me the truth.

Jseis 

Funny, I never hear anybody say about the dropped riders; "look at that fat out of shape pro", "didn't train hard enough", "that'll teach him to drink the local water", "he's riding that slow Brand X POS bike again", "his mechanics couldn't change diapers", "why did they keep that old geezer on their team", and my fav...."the only pull he's got is on his Johnson".

License2Ill

Tejay didn't look like he was suffering either, as he fell off the back, and neither did Schleck today. It's too hard to say for sure, and we've all been burned, but it was a good show, despite our amazement at the lack of Tommy Voekler faces on everybody whether they were at the front or hurting off the back. I was looking at Tejay going why aren't you breathing harder if you're falling off the pace. I gotta admit that Froome reminds me too much of Rassmussen a few years ago, but I guess we gotta wait. I can't imagine that **** happening again though.

cthenn

Ripped from other websites:
Actually, Froome's time over the man part of the climb was faster than Armstrong managed in 2001. Veloclinic have posted the following calculations for the climb:

Stage 8. Ax-3-Domaines (first 7.85 km, 8.30 %, 651 m). Chris Froome: 21 min 41 sec, 21.72 Kph, VAM; 1801 m/h, 6.37 W/kg. Third fastest cilmb of Ax3 in history, behind doped up Pantani and LA.

JV's a little suspicious as well:
@AMCmanus: @Vaughters How much should general public read into 3rd fastest ascent up Ax, including faster than 2003 Lance? More complicated than that?

@Vaughters: @AMCmanus I don’t know, man… I just don’t know.

gsteinb

given the conditions I'd think sub 6. Remember 6.0 was Ferrari's magic number. Froome's put up the third fastest time in history

https://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/54...3-warning-shot

Zinger

OK not normal