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  1. #126
    Senior Member reef58's Avatar
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    What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on

  2. #127
    moth -----> flame Beaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
    Froome's time up Ax 3 Domaines was better than Ullrich, Armstrong's 2nd best, Basso, Vinokourov, etc. Those are the riders who have produced similar performances on that climb. They did produce suspicions, and those suspicions ultimately were followed by suspensions.

    Michael Puchowicz:
    I've been following Puchowicz arguments on twitter for a long time. He has attracted some detractors, but I've yet to see a reasoned scientific rebuttal of the DpVAM analysis.

  3. #128
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
    It is not difficult at all as the structure is different. You just need to perform the proper test
    The "proper tests" often require interpretation by lab technicians. It's not a straight up-and-down like many other tests.

  4. #129
    Goodbye Leeroy Jenkins tagaproject6's Avatar
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    Just enjoy the race.
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  5. #130
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    Regardless if you believe Froome is real or not, from a spectator's point of view it's just not all that interesting to watch the pasty white spider spin away (it's hard to call what he does spinning but I'm at a loss for a more descriptive term), seated, watching his computer, for 241.9 of 242.5 km's. I think that banning computers and radios would fix this problem. That would probably result in Sky laying off a few data center employees.

  6. #131
    Senior Member Shimagnolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
    What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on

  7. #132
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
    What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on
    You forgot the "busting his ass" part.
    Last edited by Jed19; 07-15-13 at 08:43 AM.
    Regards,

    Jed

  8. #133
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    IMO radios are important but all the data if not made public then it makes the sport not that transparent.

    Would love to see races like was many years ago.

  9. #134
    Senior Member reef58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    The "proper tests" often require interpretation by lab technicians. Tests for synthetic testosterone, for example, requires interpretation on the part of the lab technicianslike many other tests.
    It actually is. The synthetic stuff is compounded for varying release rates. It is not rocket science if they are testing for synthetic testosterone.

    I guess someone could concoct their own testosterone to try and mask detection.

  10. #135
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    We have been on this route before! Maybe Sky is clean, but I don't believe it now, nor last year. Too bad. I watched today's stage live (woke up at 5AM to do it), and just could not believe what I was seeing.

    Just too good to be true. And I was informed by my neighbor, who is a coroner's toxicologist, that microdosing, if ably supervised and competently, is still almost impossible to detect.

    I want to desperately believe, but my eyes and head tells me this is horse manure.
    Regards,

    Jed

  11. #136
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
    Froome's time up Ax 3 Domaines was better than Ullrich, Armstrong's 2nd best, Basso, Vinokourov, etc. Those are the riders who have produced similar performances on that climb. They did produce suspicions, and those suspicions ultimately were followed by suspensions.
    Uh huh

    What were the weather conditions during those four stages? How much is performance for elite riders affected by an additional 5% humidity, or 2 of temperature, or 1mph of wind at a different angle? Or was the weather identical in 2000, 2002, 2009 and 2013?

    What were their actual wattages? What were the actual power-to-weight ratios? Were all the riders going full-out the entire time? How did the riders do on the next stage? Do equipment and training changes over the years make no difference whatsoever to climbing times for elite riders?

    Is it significant that 15 of the top 50 were from 2013? Quintana, Nieve, Rodriguez, Kreuziger, Contador, Mollema -- they put in phenomenal times, do you intend to accuse them as well?

    The "DpVAM" period is 2002 to 2007. Why leave out a likely full decade of EPO use? Should natural human physiological capabilities at climbing have peaked in 2001 (or 1980)?

    Should natural human physiological capabilities have halted all progress in, oh, 1995 or so?

    A cynic will always find reasons for suspicion....

  12. #137
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    A cynic will always find reasons for suspicion....
    Are you going on the record to affirm that you know for a fact that Froome/Sky is clean?
    Regards,

    Jed

  13. #138
    Senior Member MUZE's Avatar
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    Pro rider Laurens Ten Dam posts on Strava, His time for the last 16 km of Mt. Ventoux today was 50:55. This was from the 9.8 mile segment. in Strava.


    The records for the climb are 48:33 for Lance and 48:57 for Contador from 15 Km. Pantani is credited with a 46:00 in '94



    We can extrapolate a time of 48:05 for Ten Dam for 15 km and then subtract 1:53 from that for Froome (the diff between their times today) and we have a time of 46:12 !!!!!!!!!

    In 2004, in a Time Trial, Iban Mayo set a time of 55:51 from Bedoin to the summit. Today after a full day of racing Laurens did that segment in 58:17 and Froome did it in 56:20. Slower, yes, but that was after 235 km of racing.

    Mutants or.....?????

  14. #139
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    Are you going on the record to affirm that you know for a fact that Froome/Sky is clean?
    No, I cannot possibly know that with absolute certainty.

    I am equally unable to definitively prove that my cat is not an alien, sent to spy on humanity for a future invasion. Sure does explain a few things though, doesn't it?

    Again, my point is "have actual evidence before you start to accuse." Once there is evidence -- blood tests, or finding drugs in a team car, or witnesses going on record, or doctor's records -- that's a completely different story.

  15. #140
    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    No, I cannot possibly know that with absolute certainty.

    I am equally unable to definitively prove that my cat is not an alien, sent to spy on humanity for a future invasion. Sure does explain a few things though, doesn't it?

    Again, my point is "have actual evidence before you start to accuse." Once there is evidence -- blood tests, or finding drugs in a team car, or witnesses going on record, or doctor's records -- that's a completely different story.
    Fair enough.
    Regards,

    Jed

  16. #141
    It's MY mountain DiabloScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    it's just not all that interesting to watch the pasty white spider spin away (it's hard to call what he does spinning but I'm at a loss
    I would call it an effective form of flailing.
    http://diabloscott.blogspot.com/

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
    What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on
    This! We have been here before, haven't we

  18. #143
    Senior Member coppercook62's Avatar
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    That was a good comercial.....i bought into sadly

  19. #144
    Senior Member Astrozombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
    Are you going on the record to affirm that you know for a fact that Froome/Sky is clean?
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
    Assume nothing; Question everything

  20. #145
    Trek 500 Kid Zinger's Avatar
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    I had forgotten all about that ad.
    "I never lost a race because my bike was too heavy".......George Mount

  21. #146
    pluralis majestatis redfooj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stilltooslow View Post
    I dunno.....I mean look at his arms, he looks like a skeleton. I think his secret sauce may be a total lack of any body fat. Light weight may be his drug.
    Just like chicken Rasmussen

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Ok, remove Froome, would Quintana be clean?
    Body of evidence. Quintana is a climber. Quintana's performance isnt outside his margins of expectations. His team didn't come out of nowhere to dominate current and last year's Tour. He didn't hire an ex-doping doctor

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruin11 View Post
    All questioning Sky taking feeds at 10k. This article says it was legal since it was announced over race radio that feeds were allowed at that point.

    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226679399416


    The three riders from Froome's team that remained in the front group took a feedbag half way up the mountain. This can only be done when riding within your physical capacity.

    At the time, many thought this move was outside the rules but the race officials had announced, over race radio, that feeding was allowed at this point. The move was legal and it was smart.
    Interesting that there doesn't appear to be many apologies to Sky on here from those that accused them of cheating with the feedbags.

    That part of the rant against them has gone awfully quiet.

    Maybe this also helped with his climb?

  23. #148
    Senior Member jr59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
    IMO radios are important but all the data if not made public then it makes the sport not that transparent.

    Would love to see races like was many years ago.
    Hmmm.... When would you like to turn the clock back to?
    Since the start of the TDF, riders have doped to help them compete! In 1910 2 brothers wrote a book telling of drug use @ the tour.
    Jacques Anquetil was quoted as saying "you don't win the tour on mineral water alone". Merkx was caught doping 3 times. The list goes on and on.

    So I ask you when do you want to go back to? IT'S A DIRTY SPORT! It always has been.

    And please do not tell me before EPO and such. The riders of 100 years ago were doing what they thought would give them the greasest advantage. They would have done EPO then if it would have been known.
    Gravity hates us all, but it hates me more than thin people!

  24. #149
    pluralis majestatis redfooj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr59 View Post
    Hmmm.... When would you like to turn the clock back to?
    Since the start of the TDF, riders have doped to help them compete! In 1910 2 brothers wrote a book telling of drug use @ the tour.
    Jacques Anquetil was quoted as saying "you don't win the tour on mineral water alone". Merkx was caught doping 3 times. The list goes on and on.

    So I ask you when do you want to go back to? IT'S A DIRTY SPORT! It always has been.

    And please do not tell me before EPO and such. The riders of 100 years ago were doing what they thought would give them the greasest advantage. They would have done EPO then if it would have been known.
    10000% in agreement.

    Better racing through chemistry.

  25. #150
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    Masking agents in the feed bag at 10K to go, eh?

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