Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-14-13, 07:33 PM   #126
reef58
Senior Member
 
reef58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
Bikes: Serotta Nove
Posts: 1,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on
reef58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 07:33 PM   #127
Beaker
moth -----> flame
 
Beaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Bikes: 11 CAAD 10-4, 07 Specialized Roubaix Comp, 98 Peugeot Horizon
Posts: 5,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
Froome's time up Ax 3 Domaines was better than Ullrich, Armstrong's 2nd best, Basso, Vinokourov, etc. Those are the riders who have produced similar performances on that climb. They did produce suspicions, and those suspicions ultimately were followed by suspensions.

Michael Puchowicz:
I've been following Puchowicz arguments on twitter for a long time. He has attracted some detractors, but I've yet to see a reasoned scientific rebuttal of the DpVAM analysis.
__________________
BF, in a nutshell
Beaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 07:38 PM   #128
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
It is not difficult at all as the structure is different. You just need to perform the proper test
The "proper tests" often require interpretation by lab technicians. It's not a straight up-and-down like many other tests.
Bacciagalupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 07:39 PM   #129
tagaproject6
Goodbye Leeroy Jenkins
 
tagaproject6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Campagnolo Record);Cinelli Xperience (SRAM Force);Specialized Allez (SRAM Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Campagnolo Centaur)
Posts: 7,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just enjoy the race.
tagaproject6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 07:41 PM   #130
sprince
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Virginia
Bikes:
Posts: 785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Regardless if you believe Froome is real or not, from a spectator's point of view it's just not all that interesting to watch the pasty white spider spin away (it's hard to call what he does spinning but I'm at a loss for a more descriptive term), seated, watching his computer, for 241.9 of 242.5 km's. I think that banning computers and radios would fix this problem. That would probably result in Sky laying off a few data center employees.
sprince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 07:42 PM   #131
Shimagnolo
Senior Member
 
Shimagnolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Zang's Spur, CO
Bikes:
Posts: 7,367
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on
Shimagnolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 07:46 PM   #132
Jed19 
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on
You forgot the "busting his ass" part.
__________________
Regards,

Jed

Last edited by Jed19; 07-15-13 at 08:43 AM.
Jed19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 07:56 PM   #133
ultraman6970
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
IMO radios are important but all the data if not made public then it makes the sport not that transparent.

Would love to see races like was many years ago.
ultraman6970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 08:03 PM   #134
reef58
Senior Member
 
reef58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Wilmington, NC
Bikes: Serotta Nove
Posts: 1,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
The "proper tests" often require interpretation by lab technicians. Tests for synthetic testosterone, for example, requires interpretation on the part of the lab technicianslike many other tests.
It actually is. The synthetic stuff is compounded for varying release rates. It is not rocket science if they are testing for synthetic testosterone.

I guess someone could concoct their own testosterone to try and mask detection.
reef58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 08:24 PM   #135
Jed19 
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
We have been on this route before! Maybe Sky is clean, but I don't believe it now, nor last year. Too bad. I watched today's stage live (woke up at 5AM to do it), and just could not believe what I was seeing.

Just too good to be true. And I was informed by my neighbor, who is a coroner's toxicologist, that microdosing, if ably supervised and competently, is still almost impossible to detect.

I want to desperately believe, but my eyes and head tells me this is horse manure.
__________________
Regards,

Jed
Jed19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 08:32 PM   #136
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athens80 View Post
Froome's time up Ax 3 Domaines was better than Ullrich, Armstrong's 2nd best, Basso, Vinokourov, etc. Those are the riders who have produced similar performances on that climb. They did produce suspicions, and those suspicions ultimately were followed by suspensions.
Uh huh

What were the weather conditions during those four stages? How much is performance for elite riders affected by an additional 5% humidity, or 2 of temperature, or 1mph of wind at a different angle? Or was the weather identical in 2000, 2002, 2009 and 2013?

What were their actual wattages? What were the actual power-to-weight ratios? Were all the riders going full-out the entire time? How did the riders do on the next stage? Do equipment and training changes over the years make no difference whatsoever to climbing times for elite riders?

Is it significant that 15 of the top 50 were from 2013? Quintana, Nieve, Rodriguez, Kreuziger, Contador, Mollema -- they put in phenomenal times, do you intend to accuse them as well?

The "DpVAM" period is 2002 to 2007. Why leave out a likely full decade of EPO use? Should natural human physiological capabilities at climbing have peaked in 2001 (or 1980)?

Should natural human physiological capabilities have halted all progress in, oh, 1995 or so?

A cynic will always find reasons for suspicion....
Bacciagalupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 08:44 PM   #137
Jed19 
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
A cynic will always find reasons for suspicion....
Are you going on the record to affirm that you know for a fact that Froome/Sky is clean?
__________________
Regards,

Jed
Jed19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 08:56 PM   #138
MUZE
Senior Member
 
MUZE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: West Hills, CA
Bikes: Scott CR 1
Posts: 168
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pro rider Laurens Ten Dam posts on Strava, His time for the last 16 km of Mt. Ventoux today was 50:55. This was from the 9.8 mile segment. in Strava.


The records for the climb are 48:33 for Lance and 48:57 for Contador from 15 Km. Pantani is credited with a 46:00 in '94



We can extrapolate a time of 48:05 for Ten Dam for 15 km and then subtract 1:53 from that for Froome (the diff between their times today) and we have a time of 46:12 !!!!!!!!!

In 2004, in a Time Trial, Iban Mayo set a time of 55:51 from Bedoin to the summit. Today after a full day of racing Laurens did that segment in 58:17 and Froome did it in 56:20. Slower, yes, but that was after 235 km of racing.

Mutants or.....?????
MUZE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 09:05 PM   #139
Bacciagalupe
Professional Fuss-Budget
 
Bacciagalupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 6,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
Are you going on the record to affirm that you know for a fact that Froome/Sky is clean?
No, I cannot possibly know that with absolute certainty.

I am equally unable to definitively prove that my cat is not an alien, sent to spy on humanity for a future invasion. Sure does explain a few things though, doesn't it?

Again, my point is "have actual evidence before you start to accuse." Once there is evidence -- blood tests, or finding drugs in a team car, or witnesses going on record, or doctor's records -- that's a completely different story.
Bacciagalupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 09:12 PM   #140
Jed19 
Senior Member
 
Jed19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
No, I cannot possibly know that with absolute certainty.

I am equally unable to definitively prove that my cat is not an alien, sent to spy on humanity for a future invasion. Sure does explain a few things though, doesn't it?

Again, my point is "have actual evidence before you start to accuse." Once there is evidence -- blood tests, or finding drugs in a team car, or witnesses going on record, or doctor's records -- that's a completely different story.
Fair enough.
__________________
Regards,

Jed
Jed19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 11:28 PM   #141
DiabloScott
It's MY mountain
 
DiabloScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Bikes:
Posts: 6,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprince View Post
it's just not all that interesting to watch the pasty white spider spin away (it's hard to call what he does spinning but I'm at a loss
I would call it an effective form of flailing.
DiabloScott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 11:36 PM   #142
qualia8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes:
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reef58 View Post
What is he on? He is on his bike 6 hours per day. That's what he is on
This! We have been here before, haven't we
qualia8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-13, 11:56 PM   #143
coppercook62 
Senior Member
 
coppercook62's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northern CA
Bikes: Crumpton SL Crumpton Type 5 Berk on order
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That was a good comercial.....i bought into sadly
coppercook62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-13, 01:16 AM   #144
Astrozombie
Senior Member
 
Astrozombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: East L.A.
Bikes: Windsor Dover, Motobecane Mirage, Diamondback Insight
Posts: 860
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
Are you going on the record to affirm that you know for a fact that Froome/Sky is clean?
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof
Astrozombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-13, 01:37 AM   #145
Zinger
Trek 500 Kid
 
Zinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Spokane WA
Bikes: '83 Trek 970 road --- '86 Trek 500 road
Posts: 2,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
[video=youtube;fxnqHvEbGnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxnqHvEbGnc[/video]

I had forgotten all about that ad.
Zinger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-13, 02:04 AM   #146
redfooj
pluralis majestatis
 
redfooj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: you rope
Bikes: 20 W/st.
Posts: 3,181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stilltooslow View Post
I dunno.....I mean look at his arms, he looks like a skeleton. I think his secret sauce may be a total lack of any body fat. Light weight may be his drug.
Just like chicken Rasmussen

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
Ok, remove Froome, would Quintana be clean?
Body of evidence. Quintana is a climber. Quintana's performance isnt outside his margins of expectations. His team didn't come out of nowhere to dominate current and last year's Tour. He didn't hire an ex-doping doctor
redfooj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-13, 02:19 AM   #147
Steve C
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruin11 View Post
All questioning Sky taking feeds at 10k. This article says it was legal since it was announced over race radio that feeds were allowed at that point.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1226679399416


The three riders from Froome's team that remained in the front group took a feedbag half way up the mountain. This can only be done when riding within your physical capacity.

At the time, many thought this move was outside the rules but the race officials had announced, over race radio, that feeding was allowed at this point. The move was legal and it was smart.
Interesting that there doesn't appear to be many apologies to Sky on here from those that accused them of cheating with the feedbags.

That part of the rant against them has gone awfully quiet.

Maybe this also helped with his climb?
Steve C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-13, 04:39 AM   #148
jr59
Senior Member
 
jr59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: the 904, Jax fl
Bikes:
Posts: 2,286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
IMO radios are important but all the data if not made public then it makes the sport not that transparent.

Would love to see races like was many years ago.
Hmmm.... When would you like to turn the clock back to?
Since the start of the TDF, riders have doped to help them compete! In 1910 2 brothers wrote a book telling of drug use @ the tour.
Jacques Anquetil was quoted as saying "you don't win the tour on mineral water alone". Merkx was caught doping 3 times. The list goes on and on.

So I ask you when do you want to go back to? IT'S A DIRTY SPORT! It always has been.

And please do not tell me before EPO and such. The riders of 100 years ago were doing what they thought would give them the greasest advantage. They would have done EPO then if it would have been known.
jr59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-13, 04:56 AM   #149
redfooj
pluralis majestatis
 
redfooj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: you rope
Bikes: 20 W/st.
Posts: 3,181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jr59 View Post
Hmmm.... When would you like to turn the clock back to?
Since the start of the TDF, riders have doped to help them compete! In 1910 2 brothers wrote a book telling of drug use @ the tour.
Jacques Anquetil was quoted as saying "you don't win the tour on mineral water alone". Merkx was caught doping 3 times. The list goes on and on.

So I ask you when do you want to go back to? IT'S A DIRTY SPORT! It always has been.

And please do not tell me before EPO and such. The riders of 100 years ago were doing what they thought would give them the greasest advantage. They would have done EPO then if it would have been known.
10000% in agreement.

Better racing through chemistry.
redfooj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-13, 05:22 AM   #150
License2Ill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 329
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Masking agents in the feed bag at 10K to go, eh?
License2Ill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:34 PM.