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  1. #76
    cycling fanatic Ken Brown's Avatar
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    Surprising how many normally good climbers struggled today. Dan Martin, Cadel Evans, Rui Costa and others were 25 min behind, just 5 min ahead of the sprinters. Martin dropped from 10th to 19th.

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    I would assume that race radio are monitoring conversations, once Froome had made it clear there was a problem maybe they were listening in as i assume he was talking into his mic as well.
    He then had a chat with Porte before Porte dropped back to the team car to grab gels etc, by this point i imagine the officials were fully aware of what was happening.

    You couldn't see it on the TV but the commentators were saying there was a bit of a set too going on.

  3. #78
    Senior Member DLBroox's Avatar
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    I watched it live this morning and am pretty sure Phil said he heard them on race radio telling Porte not to take on food.

  4. #79
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJM View Post
    Drafting behind a team car is also cheating. Call it for what it is, man.
    There actually are rules about how much time you can spend behind a car. Enforcement is a bit lax. I.e. that sort of thing is not a big deal.


    Froome did this because he knew he would lose it on the climb and god forbid, lose time to the field.
    He was within 5k. He wasn't going to lose a lot of time without a gel.


    The feeding is a bigger deal though, because the time difference would be bigger.
    It is a bigger deal, which is why he and Porte each got docked 20 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cincipeddler View Post
    I guess we can now see where people stand, its one thing to defend the doping accusations, and understandable.........but to defend openly flaunting the rules because you were running out of energy is a completely different matter, i guess from now on in we will see riders taking on food wherever they want if they bonk due to over exertion.

    Here's me thinking part of the race ettiquete was giving it your all and if thats not enough, falling on your sword.......turns out you can now give it your all and if thats not enough, just break the rules and its fine.
    You're overreacting.

    It was a minor infraction. There is no rule against eating during that period of the race. There is only a rule against taking delivery of food during that period of the race. Froome hadn't been able to take delivery of anything at the time that the other riders did because the Sky support vehicle hadn't been able to reach him (mechanical failure, I believe, coupled with the difficulties of the unusually narrow roads). That's why he (or rather Porte) took delivery at a time which they knew would incur a penalty.

    I think the penalty could have been somewhat harsher. But it's not a big deal, really. It was a technical infraction. Bit of perspective required.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincipeddler View Post
    Laggard if you can't see the difference between bonking, one of the biggest pitfalls of any pro-riders career.....and drafting briefly behind a car then im not sure i can help you.
    That's not the relevant comparison, is it?

    The comparison is between drafting behind a car and taking delivery of a gel at the wrong time.

    Both are minor infractions. You might say that the latter is the more serious offence, and maybe it is. That's probably why it was punished with a 20 second penalty while drafting rarely results in any kind of censure.
    Last edited by jambreck; 07-18-13 at 03:56 PM.

  7. #82
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Here's me thinking part of the race ettiquete was giving it your all and if thats not enough, falling on your sword.......turns out you can now give it your all and if thats not enough, just break the rules and its fine.
    Please, get a bit of perspective.

    This is no different than intentional grounding in football. A QB who intentionally grounds the ball, and gets caught, gets a penalty. The QB hasn't violated the sanctity of the sport, and he isn't cheating. He's violated a rule.


    from now on in we will see riders taking on food wherever they want if they bonk due to over exertion.
    Few riders can afford to lose 20 seconds every day. Few riders need food or water handed to them in the last 5k.

    And I hate to break this to you, but consuming a gel is not like Popeye eating spinach. You're not going to get over a bonk in 30 seconds because you consumed a gel.

    It's a minor infraction. Froome & Porte both got busted and penalized. It's not a big deal.

  8. #83
    shaken, not stirred. gnome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambreck View Post
    Sky took the risk that their rider would be heavily penalised. If the punishment is insufficient (and it does appear to be), then the blame lies with the race officials.

    Don't bleat on about ethics (especially not in the context of professional cycling, of all sports). All the teams would do whatever it takes to help their riders win the TDF. Naive to think otherwise.
    this. 20 seconds is no more than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket. given this is the second time this tour Sky have decided they are above the feed zone rules it should have been a two minute penalty.
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    Depends how you want to look at it i guess, cracking is part and parcel of the race isn't it, due to depleted energy sources, we have seen riders virtually kill themselves on a bike and die a slow death on climbs, i have never seen anyone do what sky did today, so it is un-ethical to me.

    and i don't think its a case of it being a big deal, more a case of of seeing what kind of mentality team sky have......win at all costs.

  10. #85
    I'm doing it wrong. RJM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnome View Post
    this. 20 seconds is no more than a slap on the wrist with a wet bus ticket. given this is the second time this tour Sky have decided they are above the feed zone rules it should have been a two minute penalty.
    To be fair, the first time was within the rules set for the day that were broadcast over race radio...aparently.
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  11. #86
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Brown View Post
    Surprising how many normally good climbers struggled today. Dan Martin, Cadel Evans, Rui Costa and others were 25 min behind, just 5 min ahead of the sprinters. Martin dropped from 10th to 19th.
    Pretty much everybody looks shattered, including Froome, Kreuziger, Contador. The only people who have been really active in the race who looked as strong as usual today were Porte, Rodriguez, Quintana. I'm liking Quintana more and more, climbs like a bird. Apparently he managed more than 6w/kg on the second climb today. No great outcry about him being a doper, though. And no, I am not accusing him, merely highlighting the contrast.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  12. #87
    cycling fanatic Ken Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    I'm liking Quintana more and more, climbs like a bird.
    I was impressed with him since he finished fourth in the Volta a Catalonia (ahead of Wiggins) and won the Basque Vuelta, ahead of Porte and Contador.

  13. #88
    Senior Member busygizmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thechemist View Post
    Speaking of descending. Anyone know why Nibali decided to sit this one out?
    Not sure if anyone replied but Nibali planned to skip the Tour this year t focus on the Giro and then the World's which are in Italy and on a hilly course that might favor him. I think he'll be the Italian team captain. He'll ride the Vuelta to prep, not sure if he'll ride for GC or even finish. Could be interesting if he does, a few Spaniards will be looking for a grand tour win this year.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    Please, get a bit of perspective.

    This is no different than intentional grounding in football. A QB who intentionally grounds the ball, and gets caught, gets a penalty. The QB hasn't violated the sanctity of the sport, and he isn't cheating. He's violated a rule.
    Exactly. There are similar analogies in soccer.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by cincipeddler View Post
    Depends how you want to look at it i guess, cracking is part and parcel of the race isn't it, due to depleted energy sources, we have seen riders virtually kill themselves on a bike and die a slow death on climbs, i have never seen anyone do what sky did today, so it is un-ethical to me.

    and i don't think its a case of it being a big deal, more a case of of seeing what kind of mentality team sky have......win at all costs.
    If the rule was specifically intended to test the riders and if, consequently, no ingestion of any kind of food was allowed during that period of the race, then you might have a point.

    But that isn't the rule, is it? Nor is it the point of the rule.

    The rule only relates to taking delivery of food during that period of the race. It is a technicality. Nothing to do with testing the physical condition of the riders.

    Unethical? Give over.

  16. #91
    Resident PIA Shadco's Avatar
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    I would be interested to know if there is a penalty for directly disregarding instructions of the Race Referee?

    It's obvious Sky is from the end justifies the means school.

    A complete bonk on Froome's part would have lead to at least more than a minute more time lost.

    Porte should be DQ's and Froome's time penalty should have been greater.

    Car's not being able to get to the riders at critical points of the race are part of cycle racing, there is no guarantee your team car is going to be right there especially on a climb that that one.
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  17. #92
    Professional Fuss-Budget Bacciagalupe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadco View Post
    It's obvious Sky is from the end justifies the means school.
    Goodness gracious. Who do you people think are in the race? The Smurfs?

    Do you really not know the kind of stuff that athletes pull during competition? Diving in soccer? Grunting in tennis? Spitballs? Hockey fights?


    Porte should be DQ's and Froome's time penalty should have been greater.
    Or not. It's a mild infraction, and the penalty is usually a fine.

    Please stop drumming up excuses to pile on the penalties.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parson View Post
    When Froome is asked if he's doping, he usually responds by saying "I don't cheat". Well, he can no longer respond that he doesn't cheat.

    There needs to be more than a 20 second penalty to stop that sort of thing from happening again.
    I doubt the illegal feed helped much, but yes, he did in fact cheat and 20s is a joke.

  19. #94
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    how on earth did TJVG not at least get most combative today? led the way up most of both assents, AND fought back to the lead after a popped chain?? I know it's basically a consolation prize, but he really deserved more than nothing for that hell of a ride...

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmansker View Post
    how on earth did TJVG not at least get most combative today? led the way up most of both assents, AND fought back to the lead after a popped chain?? I know it's basically a consolation prize, but he really deserved more than nothing for that hell of a ride...
    Riblon crashed into a stream and came back again and again and (and this must be the tie breaker) won the stage. Oh, and he's French.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
    Riblon crashed into a stream and came back again and again and (and this must be the tie breaker) won the stage. Oh, and he's French.
    IDK, I feel like the combative prize should go to someone other than the stage winner, with rare exception...

  22. #97
    Have bike, will travel Barrettscv's Avatar
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  23. #98
    The Flying Scot chewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacciagalupe View Post
    Goodness gracious. Who do you people think are in the race? The Smurfs?

    Do you really not know the kind of stuff that athletes pull during competition? Diving in soccer? Grunting in tennis? Spitballs? Hockey fights?



    Or not. It's a mild infraction, and the penalty is usually a fine.

    Please stop drumming up excuses to pile on the penalties.
    Well said. There have been plenty of examples of similar things happening in sport elsewhere (even in other TdF's), and examples where the rules have been relaxed because of circumstances (e.g allowing flexibility on the time limits for diqualification where elements of the peloton have been held up by crashes, trains etc.

    Sky took the penalty. The penalty is imposed by the organisation. It's a rule infraction, Watch any sport and you'll see athletes manipulate the rules to try to get an advantage - Whining about getting the roof closed at Wimbledon, grunting, calling for trainers when an opponent is on a roll. Diving in the box. Holding on to the sticky bidon, drafting motorbikes.

    It's sport, you take the risk and work out if it's worth the benefit.

    As for suspicions that there wasn't a technical issue with the car, Sky use Jags, and if my last one was anything to go by I wouldn't be too surprised there were issues
    plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

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  24. #99
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chewa View Post

    As for suspicions that there wasn't a technical issue with the car...
    LOL. I hadn't heard that one. Let's imagine Brailsford's thought processes. "Er, what if we pretended to have car trouble so that we can't feed Froome at the appropriate time? That would give us an opportunity to break the rules later, lose a bit of time and court more unpopularity. Let's go for it!"
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  25. #100
    cycling fanatic Ken Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmansker View Post
    how on earth did TJVG not at least get most combative today? led the way up most of both assents, AND fought back to the lead after a popped chain?? I know it's basically a consolation prize, but he really deserved more than nothing for that hell of a ride...
    Agree 100%.

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