Why is the TdF the only one that gets the fanfare?
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I too have been to Colorado, and I concur. But there is much more to the TdF than scenery. France has plenty of that, and not just in the Alps and Pyrenees. But it also has history, expressed in mediaeval villages, and monasteries on mountain-tops, and boulangeries, and Cezanne colourschemes, and... .
The Tour is part of the fabric of the place, it is among the things that make France, France. No North American bike race, however challenging the terrain or beauty of the landscape, could possibly come close. It's the terroir.
The Tour is part of the fabric of the place, it is among the things that make France, France. No North American bike race, however challenging the terrain or beauty of the landscape, could possibly come close. It's the terroir.
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How are they putting those images on the Arc de Triomphe? Some kind of projection system?
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The Tour consistently drew a better field than the Giro, in the post Merckx era...... and significantly better than the Vuelta.
The worldwide fanfare began with Lemond bringing 300 million Americans a champion to root for. This was accelerated by the other guy, from Texas. His name escapes me..........
The worldwide fanfare began with Lemond bringing 300 million Americans a champion to root for. This was accelerated by the other guy, from Texas. His name escapes me..........
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Yeah, its tougher. The high point of the TDF is typically the Galibier at 9,000 feet. Highpoint of the US Pro Cycling Challenge last year was Independence Pass at over 12,000 feet. And there are paved roads in Colorado that go to 14,000 feet.
While there are steeper climbs in France, there are longer and higher climbs in Colorado.
Natural scenery wise, I'd give a close edge to France. Food, culture, history, architecture, France wins hands down.
But in terms of topography for a bike race, Colorado clearly has the topography for a world class event.
While there are steeper climbs in France, there are longer and higher climbs in Colorado.
Natural scenery wise, I'd give a close edge to France. Food, culture, history, architecture, France wins hands down.
But in terms of topography for a bike race, Colorado clearly has the topography for a world class event.
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Yeah, its tougher. The high point of the TDF is typically the Galibier at 9,000 feet. Highpoint of the US Pro Cycling Challenge last year was Independence Pass at over 12,000 feet. And there are paved roads in Colorado that go to 14,000 feet.
While there are steeper climbs in France, there are longer and higher climbs in Colorado.
Natural scenery wise, I'd give a close edge to France. Food, culture, history, architecture, France wins hands down.
But in terms of topography for a bike race, Colorado clearly has the topography for a world class event.
While there are steeper climbs in France, there are longer and higher climbs in Colorado.
Natural scenery wise, I'd give a close edge to France. Food, culture, history, architecture, France wins hands down.
But in terms of topography for a bike race, Colorado clearly has the topography for a world class event.
And, like I said, if you combine the Tour of Utah, the USA Pro Challenge in Colorado and the Tour of Alberta Canada you'd have a Grand Tour right there. I don't think you could ever draw the crowds in North America like you do in Europe without crits and circuit races myself. They used to draw close to 100,000 spectators for the Coors Classics and most of them certainly weren't watching the road races like they do in Europe.
If they ever try and do it like they do in Europe it just won't work.
Last edited by Zinger; 07-21-13 at 03:22 PM.
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Aside from the doping scandals that "plagued" all cycling competition internationally, the Giro had troubles with reroutings to favor their natives in some years and Spain had similar problems with shady deals of one kind or another.
The tour de France opened itself big time to the international cycling scene early on.
Somewhat suggestive but somewhat true: France has a very varied geography, very beautiful and of course it is the most visited country by tourists!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings
And I am very surprised and pleased to hear the official announcer using french and english for a country that pride and so protective of its language--it is the least english speaking european country. Just very recently allowed to conduct university classes in english only--to learn english and its literature!
The tour de France opened itself big time to the international cycling scene early on.
Somewhat suggestive but somewhat true: France has a very varied geography, very beautiful and of course it is the most visited country by tourists!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings
And I am very surprised and pleased to hear the official announcer using french and english for a country that pride and so protective of its language--it is the least english speaking european country. Just very recently allowed to conduct university classes in english only--to learn english and its literature!
#32
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Many other countries including the US have the geography coupled with beautiful scenery to put on a Tour as technically good as the TDF.
But they don't have the history and national fervour to make it such a success.
As a Welshman who has visited the western States many times I also concur that Colorado has fantastic terrain for cycling. There can't be too many greater mile-for-mile challenges than the races around Leadville. I was out of breath just climbing three flights of stairs there.
But they don't have the history and national fervour to make it such a success.
As a Welshman who has visited the western States many times I also concur that Colorado has fantastic terrain for cycling. There can't be too many greater mile-for-mile challenges than the races around Leadville. I was out of breath just climbing three flights of stairs there.
Last edited by Gerryattrick; 07-22-13 at 09:35 AM.
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The Tour consistently drew a better field than the Giro, in the post Merckx era...... and significantly better than the Vuelta.
The worldwide fanfare began with Lemond bringing 300 million Americans a champion to root for. This was accelerated by the other guy, from Texas. His name escapes me..........
The worldwide fanfare began with Lemond bringing 300 million Americans a champion to root for. This was accelerated by the other guy, from Texas. His name escapes me..........
BUT pre Hinault all the Grand Tours were first a national event and second a European event (though the TDF was the most international). Hinault changed that twice. First bringing over the Americans (admittedly for his own benefit) and then after retiring as a racer being a large part of the TDF becoming truly international.
The Vuelta still is apt the produce a Spanish champion any given year. The Giro is the big race for Italians and still is more apt to produce an Italian champion than one from any other country.
The Tour is the big event, but with a price. When was the last French GC champion? When was there last more than one Frenchman on the podium (counting the first 3 places and the KOB and Points Jerseys)?
To compete with the Tour any other event has to become the Tour. The risk is high as you have to lose the national flavor and you may not succeed in becoming a true international event in the same way as the TDF.
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The thing is, though, Virenque and Jalabert are the only Frenchmen since Fignon to really challenge for the top spot in any of the grand tours. It's not that the Tour is too international, it's also that French riders aren't as good. There have been Italian and Spanish winners not only of the Vuelta and Giro, but also of the Tour since the last French Tour winner.
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The Tour consistently drew a better field than the Giro, in the post Merckx era...... and significantly better than the Vuelta.
The worldwide fanfare began with Lemond bringing 300 million Americans a champion to root for. This was accelerated by the other guy, from Texas. His name escapes me..........
The worldwide fanfare began with Lemond bringing 300 million Americans a champion to root for. This was accelerated by the other guy, from Texas. His name escapes me..........
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Oh I think it was starting to go much more worldwide with competitors just before Lemond was in it although he was certainly responsible for bringing it to the attention of some of the then-200,000 Americans. Australian Phil Anderson and American Jonathan Boyer were in it by then and Anglos were set to invade the TDF irregardless of what Lemond did. It was a big race then and going more global.
Nobody in Ireland noticed when Stephen Roche won the Giro.
2 months later, when he won the Tour, every kid in the country (including me) wanted a racing bike.
It's the biggest because everyone wants to win it, and everyone wants to win it because it's the biggest. The 2 feed off each other.
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Nobody in Ireland noticed when Stephen Roche won the Giro.
2 months later, when he won the Tour, every kid in the country (including me) wanted a racing bike.
It's the biggest because everyone wants to win it, and everyone wants to win it because it's the biggest. The 2 feed off each other.
2 months later, when he won the Tour, every kid in the country (including me) wanted a racing bike.
It's the biggest because everyone wants to win it, and everyone wants to win it because it's the biggest. The 2 feed off each other.
But then I wasn't even paying attention to European racing until Americans were showing up in numbers in the TDF and neither were Americans for the most part. The TDF put Lemond in the spotlight alright.
Last edited by Zinger; 07-23-13 at 06:14 PM.
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Lemond himself said he planned his season around the Tour (he was the first to really do that 100%, iirc) because it was the race Americans had heard of. Lemond helped the profile of cycling and the Tour in the US, but Lemond wouldn't have had the profile he did in the US without the Tour.
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Lemond himself said he planned his season around the Tour (he was the first to really do that 100%, iirc) because it was the race Americans had heard of. Lemond helped the profile of cycling and the Tour in the US, but Lemond wouldn't have had the profile he did in the US without the Tour.
It was when some of those guys turned pro for the 7-11 team and went to the TDF that I even started watching what happened in Europe.
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True that. His success in the TDF piqued the average American's interests and was no small part of promoting cycling in the US alright. He was only known to then-fans of the burgeoning US cycling scene as a phenom before that. Personally I was paying more attention to other riders who weren't yet turning pro in Europe until about '85 when Lemond brought American TV coverage to the TDF.
It was when some of those guys turned pro for the 7-11 team and went to the TDF that I even started watching what happened in Europe.
It was when some of those guys turned pro for the 7-11 team and went to the TDF that I even started watching what happened in Europe.
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Le Tour has the advantage of being the 1st super tour & Giro/Vuelta have to play 2nd fiddle esp in current times where winning is so tough that it's almost impossible to win 2 Grand Tours in a season. TDF is part of the French tourism promotion which I think plays a large part in the race always being shown on US/world TV. French countryside can be beautiful but of course the route footage doesn't feature the more working-class grimmer areas. I like the Vuelta coverage too, lots of tidy sunlit towns though again I'm sure they skip over the less-attractive spots.
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Yes, apparently so. 100th Tour had awesome sound & light show on L'Arc. Saw it all on TV but weirdly impossible to find a good complete YouTube recording. Arc de Triomphe already had the projection system arranged for other stuff like Bastille Day, however the 100th Tour show was simply stupendous! Ironically Paris is not esp hospitable to cyclists what with narrow traffic lanes & err, enthusiastic drivers.
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Been following the Tour most years since the late 1930s when living in Europe, over the radio and in the daily newspapers. Then in some of the foreign newspapers in the US after WWII until TV made it even famous/watchable and as Americans started entering the event. Until TV most Americans had no clue about cycling in Europe or in the US.
Also like Ronde van Vlaanderen, Fleche Wallone, Vuelta d'Espana, Liege/Bastogne/Liege, Tour of Switserland, Giro d'Italia and Tour of Utah.
TV coverage has made cycling a bit popular in the US. Americans will not likely stand and watch racers go by for a few minutes like Euros do.
Also like Ronde van Vlaanderen, Fleche Wallone, Vuelta d'Espana, Liege/Bastogne/Liege, Tour of Switserland, Giro d'Italia and Tour of Utah.
TV coverage has made cycling a bit popular in the US. Americans will not likely stand and watch racers go by for a few minutes like Euros do.
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I agree. It's a better race. I enjoy it much more than the Tour, but the Tour is the Super Bowl, the Indy 500, etc. of bike racing.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 05-07-15 at 12:29 PM.
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Yes, apparently so. 100th Tour had awesome sound & light show on L'Arc. Saw it all on TV but weirdly impossible to find a good complete YouTube recording. Arc de Triomphe already had the projection system arranged for other stuff like Bastille Day, however the 100th Tour show was simply stupendous! Ironically Paris is not esp hospitable to cyclists what with narrow traffic lanes & err, enthusiastic drivers.
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When was the last time the Giro had the strongest GC lineup of all 3 GTs? Maybe back when Indurain was winning it?
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Not sure about Americans not standing to watch racers go by however. I see some very big crowds in the Tour of California and the USA Pro Challenge these days. I think they are actually better attended than some of the European races I watch, especially the Veulta, which at times, looks like a local group ride instead of a major tour. I'm interested to see how the World Championships do in Virginia later this season. I'd love to see a truly national race here, one that puts several states together in one tour, say from Maine to Florida, or something to that effect. Logistically, it would be tough given the size of the US and the different state laws and governments, but who know, if it continues to grow, it might happen one day...
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I agree, TV coverage has definitely gotten better here in the US over the past couple of years, and it's helping cycling to grow here in the post-Lance era. (A new Lance-like character would help it to grow here also, but that's for a different thread!)
Not sure about Americans not standing to watch racers go by however. I see some very big crowds in the Tour of California and the USA Pro Challenge these days. I think they are actually better attended than some of the European races I watch, especially the Veulta, which at times, looks like a local group ride instead of a major tour. I'm interested to see how the World Championships do in Virginia later this season. I'd love to see a truly national race here, one that puts several states together in one tour, say from Maine to Florida, or something to that effect. Logistically, it would be tough given the size of the US and the different state laws and governments, but who know, if it continues to grow, it might happen one day...
Not sure about Americans not standing to watch racers go by however. I see some very big crowds in the Tour of California and the USA Pro Challenge these days. I think they are actually better attended than some of the European races I watch, especially the Veulta, which at times, looks like a local group ride instead of a major tour. I'm interested to see how the World Championships do in Virginia later this season. I'd love to see a truly national race here, one that puts several states together in one tour, say from Maine to Florida, or something to that effect. Logistically, it would be tough given the size of the US and the different state laws and governments, but who know, if it continues to grow, it might happen one day...
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I agree, TV coverage has definitely gotten better here in the US over the past couple of years, and it's helping cycling to grow here in the post-Lance era. (A new Lance-like character would help it to grow here also, but that's for a different thread!)
Not sure about Americans not standing to watch racers go by however. I see some very big crowds in the Tour of California and the USA Pro Challenge these days. I think they are actually better attended than some of the European races I watch, especially the Veulta, which at times, looks like a local group ride instead of a major tour. I'm interested to see how the World Championships do in Virginia later this season. I'd love to see a truly national race here, one that puts several states together in one tour, say from Maine to Florida, or something to that effect. Logistically, it would be tough given the size of the US and the different state laws and governments, but who know, if it continues to grow, it might happen one day...
Not sure about Americans not standing to watch racers go by however. I see some very big crowds in the Tour of California and the USA Pro Challenge these days. I think they are actually better attended than some of the European races I watch, especially the Veulta, which at times, looks like a local group ride instead of a major tour. I'm interested to see how the World Championships do in Virginia later this season. I'd love to see a truly national race here, one that puts several states together in one tour, say from Maine to Florida, or something to that effect. Logistically, it would be tough given the size of the US and the different state laws and governments, but who know, if it continues to grow, it might happen one day...
I think a problem with DuPont is that its name didn't tell you where it was touring, so no obvious connection to the location was made. The ToC has established a connection with the state of CA, and it's started to build up its own major landmarks (Diablo, Baldy, stage finishes in coastal towns named Santa Something) and its own identity (where GC riders who don't want to do the Giro go, where Peter Sagan collects green jerseys).
I think it goes without saying that a "Tour of the Whole United States" is a pretty much impossible ask without setting aside about 2 months of the calendar, which the UCI will never do, or doing it piece-by-piece (New England this year, Rust Belt next year, Midwest Prairies the year after, Mountain West, West Coast, Desert South, Rebel South, East Coast, repeat the cycle) with the obvious problem that the event would find it very hard to establish any kind of rhythm or identity. France has the advantage of having a lot of different terrain in a package small enough to showcase all of it. California is about the right size to do that in a week too. The whole US, though, is a bit too massive to ever be properly covered.
Last edited by Leinster; 05-08-15 at 12:43 PM.