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Thread: Horner

  1. #51
    Animated Member ahsposo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TallRider View Post
    On the regular-American-news-outlets-that-covered-Horner's-victory, you can add Grantland (an ESPN subsidiary aimed at a statistically- and culturally-aware crowd)
    Chris Horner, the Unlikely American Cycling Hero



    Nice article, trying to explain some of the basics of bike racing to the unfamiliar sports fan.
    Unfortunately, it was posted at 5:30 PM on a Wednesday, and apparently most people who read Grantland check the website while at work.
    That was a very good article and the side piece about Horner carrying the crashed rider home was new to me but consistent with my view of Chris's great heart.

    Thanks for the post.
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    Senior Member colombo357's Avatar
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    I think all of you are ignoring one of the most glaring details here.

    Chris Froome
    Chris Horner

    Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
    Last edited by colombo357; 09-21-13 at 12:14 PM.
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  3. #53
    johnliu@earthlink.net jyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
    I think all of you are ignoring one of the most glaring details here.

    Chris Froome
    Chris Horner

    Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
    Both 6 letter last names, too. I'm convinced .
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  4. #54
    Animated Member ahsposo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colombo357 View Post
    I think all of you are ignoring one of the most glaring details here.

    Chris Froome
    Chris Horner

    Coincidence? I THINK NOT.
    Thank You, Chris Colombo
    Quote Originally Posted by toddles View Post
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  5. #55
    johnliu@earthlink.net jyl's Avatar
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    Horner says he will release his biological passport data since 2008 (inception) today, on his website.

    Is this unprecedented? I can't think of any rider doing this before.

    My speculation/guess - all the attacks on him are impeding his effort to get a satisfactory contract for 2014/15, so he feels a need to go the extra mile in terms of disclosure.

    Edit - data is on chrishornerracing.com

    The thumbnail images on the site seem to be not working (broken) but right-click on each broken thumbnail and you can open the image in a separate tab.
    Last edited by jyl; 09-25-13 at 10:27 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyl View Post
    Horner says he will release his biological passport data since 2008 (inception) today, on his website.

    Is this unprecedented? I can't think of any rider doing this before.
    I can think of one very prominent rider who said he would release all his passport data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
    I can think of one very prominent rider who said he would release all his passport data.
    O.K. It looks like Horner actually followed through and released the data.

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    Senior Member rufvelo's Avatar
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    You can see it on his website: http://www.chrishornerracing.com/

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    Senior Member GrayJay's Avatar
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    Very curious that there is still no 2014 contract signed for Horner. If all was well with him staying on Trek, then seems it would not take so long. Winning the vuelta probably substantially increased his salary potential and he is likely weighing serious offers from other teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Very curious that there is still no 2014 contract signed for Horner.
    Not really; even without considering his age. From what I've heard, he's holding out for a team leader/super domestique type salary, and given his performance this year prior to the Vuelta, teams weren't considering him for those roles. So even though teams knew he might come on the market, none kept a leader/super domestique roster spot open or held back enough money to meet his current demands.

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    Senior Member Jed19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Very curious that there is still no 2014 contract signed for Horner. If all was well with him staying on Trek, then seems it would not take so long. Winning the vuelta probably substantially increased his salary potential and he is likely weighing serious offers from other teams.
    I have read he wants a two or more year contract (with plenty of dollars), while teams are only comfortable with a one-year contract, due to his age.
    Regards,

    Jed

  12. #62
    ride lots be safe Creakyknees's Avatar
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    so it's been a few days since Horner released his passport data, has the internet found any damning evidence yet?
    "have fun and be kind"
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    Hi, IMO you have to consider a few factors, trek has the schleps brothers in their team already and I doubt they took candies and cents as payment. Second thing is what everybody is saying, probably Horner is asking too much money? he deserves it IMO but this is my personal view. Third factor is related with the 1st one, the schleps brothers won't accept anybody but them to be the stars, so sure they moved their wings a lot and even would not surprise me at all that they put the team against the wall if Horner was going to be hired as a leader in some races (IMO a problem BMC has). When I saw coming that horner was going to win the vuelta I thought right away that there was no chances for horner to get into that team, at the same time I thought in that could be a good move to put horner with the euskadi guys, they did not have a single GC guy and from what I read looks like that was the idea from the beginning, sadly did not work out.


    For many CH is a "johnny come lately" but the guy has been racing for other people for years, in pro peloton a rider won't shine unless he is let shine and as it happens in any job if the boss wants you to do one thing all the time you won't have the chance to show your potential, in the case of CH when the team worked for him he was able to deliver, a prove of that are the wins at the vuelta and pais vasco that is not an easy tour because is basically going uphill from day one, leaving all the allegations aside the guy is not a cripple horse at all.

    As for trek as a team for 2014, well I will start saying that took 2 years to lemond to be able to win the Tour after being SHOT in his LUNGS, the GC guy at trek just got pain in the butt and he's still havent finish a race yet (maybe a couple). If you ask me? trek put the eggs in the wrong basket and after seeing the Giro, Vuelta, Tdf and WC I don't think the guy stands a chance for 2014. Actually Horner has more chances to at least finish and probably win if the team supports him, actually when they did Horner actually won or got top places. This year's tour the climbs were not even close to start and AS was like 5+ minutes behind already.

    Think on this situation, the spanish trio (rodriguez, contador, valverde), then we can't discount pozzovivo, nivali and a couple of other italians, then we add Froome and Porte and obviously we have to count the colombians that for sure are coming stronger next year, then add some wildcards like roche? his cousin too? Those two are riding really good; so again, probably Trek put the eggs in the wrong basket, hope they have a back up plan because so far besides FC and Jens to give us great surprises I see no trek winning even a medal made of tomato sauce tin can because they look cute in any of the Great Tours this year. Tomorrow we have the Giro di Lombardia, that will be as tough as the world championship, Rodriguez will win the pro point classification for 2013 if he wins I believe and after the WC fiasco he will go for this win together with valverde, nibali and sagan. Don't see AS even finishing it but I do see him BSing about being sick, that his butt still hurt and stuff, you know his usual BS when he gets a free ride in the Broom Truck.

    Hope Horner is picked up by other teams, he deserves the chance IMO.




    [QUOTE=GrayJay;16110246]Very curious that there is still no 2014 contract signed for Horner. If all was well with him staying on Trek, then seems it would not take so long. Winning the vuelta probably substantially increased his salary potential and he is likely weighing serious offers from other teams.[/QUOT

  14. #64
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    A very interesting and informative post. I have to agree about Trek and AS - I don't see much room for a comeback, but I would be a little bit more sympathetic about a guy having trouble recovering from injuries (speaking as an older guy who has to deal with losing riding time owing minor but nagging injuries myself - not that I race or anything).

    As to Horner, I do wonder what he wants. His results in the Vuelta notwithstanding, you can kind of see that few teams would want to build their hopes around a GC contender of that age. To win once was amazing, but to repeat? If he's on the market as a super-domestique, plus as a threat to podium in some of the less important races, I would think that a lot of teams would welcome him. But if he's holding out for marquee status in GTs, I doubt many teams would be that excited.


    [QUOTE=ultraman6970;16135928]Hi, IMO you have to consider a few factors, trek has the schleps brothers in their team already and I doubt they took candies and cents as payment. Second thing is what everybody is saying, probably Horner is asking too much money? he deserves it IMO but this is my personal view. Third factor is related with the 1st one, the schleps brothers won't accept anybody but them to be the stars, so sure they moved their wings a lot and even would not surprise me at all that they put the team against the wall if Horner was going to be hired as a leader in some races (IMO a problem BMC has). When I saw coming that horner was going to win the vuelta I thought right away that there was no chances for horner to get into that team, at the same time I thought in that could be a good move to put horner with the euskadi guys, they did not have a single GC guy and from what I read looks like that was the idea from the beginning, sadly did not work out.


    For many CH is a "johnny come lately" but the guy has been racing for other people for years, in pro peloton a rider won't shine unless he is let shine and as it happens in any job if the boss wants you to do one thing all the time you won't have the chance to show your potential, in the case of CH when the team worked for him he was able to deliver, a prove of that are the wins at the vuelta and pais vasco that is not an easy tour because is basically going uphill from day one, leaving all the allegations aside the guy is not a cripple horse at all.

    As for trek as a team for 2014, well I will start saying that took 2 years to lemond to be able to win the Tour after being SHOT in his LUNGS, the GC guy at trek just got pain in the butt and he's still havent finish a race yet (maybe a couple). If you ask me? trek put the eggs in the wrong basket and after seeing the Giro, Vuelta, Tdf and WC I don't think the guy stands a chance for 2014. Actually Horner has more chances to at least finish and probably win if the team supports him, actually when they did Horner actually won or got top places. This year's tour the climbs were not even close to start and AS was like 5+ minutes behind already.

    Think on this situation, the spanish trio (rodriguez, contador, valverde), then we can't discount pozzovivo, nivali and a couple of other italians, then we add Froome and Porte and obviously we have to count the colombians that for sure are coming stronger next year, then add some wildcards like roche? his cousin too? Those two are riding really good; so again, probably Trek put the eggs in the wrong basket, hope they have a back up plan because so far besides FC and Jens to give us great surprises I see no trek winning even a medal made of tomato sauce tin can because they look cute in any of the Great Tours this year. Tomorrow we have the Giro di Lombardia, that will be as tough as the world championship, Rodriguez will win the pro point classification for 2013 if he wins I believe and after the WC fiasco he will go for this win together with valverde, nibali and sagan. Don't see AS even finishing it but I do see him BSing about being sick, that his butt still hurt and stuff, you know his usual BS when he gets a free ride in the Broom Truck.

    Hope Horner is picked up by other teams, he deserves the chance IMO.




    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Very curious that there is still no 2014 contract signed for Horner. If all was well with him staying on Trek, then seems it would not take so long. Winning the vuelta probably substantially increased his salary potential and he is likely weighing serious offers from other teams.[/QUOT

  15. #65
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    Minnman I see your points, well we have to put the things in perspective too you know... thats why I cited lemond being shot versus a butt bone bothering you, I have had injuries too and I do know that takes time to recover but is true too that to recover you have to be brave and work a lot aswell. Got a knee dislocated twice years ago and remember a middle age woman and a 80 y/o dude, both recovering from knee replacement. The old dude was darn tough and doing all his PT even if it hurt because he knew he needed to work all his way up to get almost 100% ok (he recognized too that at 80 y/o you have no chance to get 100% but maybe better than before), the middle age lady pretty much as today I'm sure she still have problems with the new knee because her PT was just sloppy, she never put any work on getting better, cycling is like that too, sure you know.

    I see what you are talking about being sympathetic with the guy, the problem he got with many fans is that out of the blue he started whining like a little girl, that races were too dangerous, then chain gate that for some apparently was contador's fault but since it is a race pretty much is not fault other riders if you don't know how to shift (I believe he got this problem like 3 or 4 times afterwards) but thats just my opinion as ex cheesy racer... then like 2 years ago he got knocked off the TT bike because was too windy (well was windy for everybody, not only for him, looks like we have to add.. "i Can't handle my bike" to the list aswell) and busted his butt, in case somebody doesnt know... lemond still have fragments of the shotgun inside his lungs, maybe americans are more will powered and tougher than Luxembourgians maybe? Who knows... just a sarcastic question to put it all in perspective, so adding all those tiny things why should i give a slack to the guy? He gets paid probably a couple of millions to do not finish races, do not train because he use the races as training ground (he is famous for that), not even talk about training time trials because his reason for not even improve doing ITT is just as dumb as the way he trains. Then you see people like roche for example that clearly had been training his a s s off to become a better climber and time trialist (his 2013 vuelta was just insane), in addition you have to add his passion and heart for racing that are way bigger than both of the brothers combined, roche's palmares is not that impressive but as a cycling fan roche is just a better rider right now, then you wonder why i'm not sympathetic with him? hehehe He lost many many many fans in the last 2 years... in a matter of fact the words "lacy axx whiner" describe him too well, I bet you that tomorrow he won't finish and he will say that was sick or something.

    Maybe you don't know, many riders (and world teams) are being paid to participate in some small races (tour of california or utah), in that way the race gets its importance, he never done a single thing in a single race in the american continent, he just come, do nothing. Wonder if he is paid to come because I would be asking my money back big time. The opposite side you have Sagan, he doesn't have a single problem busting his butt off to win no matter what kind of stage is when he race in the US, that's why the fans like him a lot... haven't met anybody that doesn't like sagan yet.

    Well I see that CH is old too, is a valid argument but after all he deserves the chance specially when odds are better with him than with other riders.

  16. #66
    Senior Member MinnMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraman6970 View Post
    Maybe you don't know, many riders (and world teams) are being paid to participate in some small races (tour of california or utah), in that way the race gets its importance, he never done a single thing in a single race in the american continent, he just come, do nothing. Wonder if he is paid to come because I would be asking my money back big time. The opposite side you have Sagan, he doesn't have a single problem busting his butt off to win no matter what kind of stage is when he race in the US, that's why the fans like him a lot... haven't met anybody that doesn't like sagan yet.
    Yeah, I know - a lot of people are fed up with the Schlecks and I don't blame them - they were never my favorites. The exception would be AS's astonishing stage win in the 2011 TdF, when he soloed ahead of the peloton for 60 km. That took heart. But as to injuries, I don't think we can put ourselves in somebody else's saddle - injuries suck and overcoming them is not always just a matter of toughness or perseverance.

    As to Sagan, I definitely know a few fans who hate him. You may remember, he turned off a lot of women with his podium girl antics.

  17. #67
    johnliu@earthlink.net jyl's Avatar
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    Even accepting that Trek sees Andy Schleck as its #1 GC leader, he can't ride all three GTs. He'll focus on the Tour. So they need a GC leader for the Giro and the Vuelta. Next year's Vuelta will be like this year, for the climbers, meaning made for Horner to defend. I don't think there is another legitimate (experienced, proven, winner) GC leader on the Trek Factory team, for a climbers' GT, is there?

    I don't really see Andy Schleck being able to veto the team adding (or re- signing) another GC contender. He has signed his contract, I would think, so can't really threaten to walk.

    Guessing it comes down to Horner's demands for money and for a two year deal. I wonder if he'd do a one year deal, or a lower priced two year deal with win bonuses.

    Being an American bike company, I think Trek really should be trying hard to have an American leader, and Horner is a popular rider in the US who does well in the US races, and has a good shot at giving them consecutive GT wins. I'll be very disappointed if they don't do a deal with him.
    Last edited by jyl; 10-05-13 at 10:46 PM.
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    johnliu@earthlink.net jyl's Avatar
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    Andy Schleck abandons Giro il Lombardia.

    Really, if I were Trek, I would want a plan B to Andy S.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jyl View Post
    Andy Schleck abandons Giro il Lombardia.

    Really, if I were Trek, I would want a plan B to Andy S.
    Don't suppose you have a link to some streaming coverage?

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    johnliu@earthlink.net jyl's Avatar
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    I was checking the live ticker at cycling fans.

    Sorry for not responding sooner

    Didn't get to see the race :-(
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    Yup he retired like half way and after seeing the last 2 hours of the race I really doubt he was going to make it any further. Good for Schlek, Trek and the public opinion.

    They need to get Horner back, divide the team in two so both are never racing together till the end of the season and check out for consistency and send the most consistent rider to the last 2 or 3 big tours. No need to guess which will be the one anyways.

    As for that epic ride, well... Voeckler, vino, hinault and many others had pulled the same ride but not only once, but several times, voeckler went solo today in lombardi for like 30 km under the rain. Remember Hinault went solo to get time back in a tour stage right from the start of the stage just because he was that tough, anybody have seen the pictures of Hinault when he smashed his face with the pavement and even finished the stage and the tour? I give you that AS ride was ok but there are more riders that have done the same several times and even in harder conditions. Anybody remember the guy that got caught his butt in the barb wire? he got more stitches in his butt and legs than Frankenstein and he finished the tour and won the mountain classification, that ride was just epic. It is too cold, too steep or the racing conditions are too tough for him then he gets off the bike, Lemond was not able to ride around the block when he got off the hospital after he got shot... but he sucked it up, lemond was tough, hinault aswell... this other kid is just....hmmm him.


    Quote Originally Posted by jyl View Post
    Andy Schleck abandons Giro il Lombardia.

    Really, if I were Trek, I would want a plan B to Andy S.

  22. #72
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    ^^Horner dodged a question.

    When he dodges a test, that'll be news.
    History is the future

  24. #74
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  25. #75
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    That doesn't look good.

    But, while it raises doubts, alone it's not enough to find a violation.
    You could fall off a cliff and die.
    You could get lost and die.
    You could hit a tree and die.
    OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.

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