Horner
09-17-13, 10:07 AM
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Its going to be a rough few years for GT jersey winners with LA at el. I just wish we could get past this. Why do we have 7+ articles from Velo, cyclingnews stipulating did these guys dope? Innocent until proven guilty, its just a bummer that these guys can't embrace such a win without being riddled with questions.
09-17-13, 10:42 AM
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Had they checked ADAMS, they would not have gone to the wrong hotel. I think that's the point.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 09-17-13 at 10:59 AM.
09-17-13, 12:18 PM
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A 41 year old winning his first Grand Tour by riding away from the likes of Purito and Valverde up the steepest mountains in Spain would draw questions no matter what era it happened in. Throw in all the Lance stuff and the hotel screw-up, and there looks to be some smoke blowing around and lots of people looking for a fire.
A 41 year old that was part of the LA dynasty.
I love watching pro cycling, I admire what these athletes do and have some understanding of what it takes. But it is going to take a few years without major doping scandals before I see a rider in the top 20 of any race and be confident they are not doping. Much more so for one my age winning a grand tour.
09-17-13, 01:21 PM
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09-17-13, 02:32 PM
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The point is also about the fact this appeared in the media before the mistake was discovered.
Last edited by Caretaker; 09-17-13 at 02:37 PM.
09-18-13, 12:17 AM
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arguably the greatest american roadie ever given his absolute domestic dominance and later european success-riding much of it as a super-domestique.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
09-18-13, 03:11 AM
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A 41 year old winning his first Grand Tour by riding away from the likes of Purito and Valverde up the steepest mountains in Spain would draw questions no matter what era it happened in. Throw in all the Lance stuff and the hotel screw-up, and there looks to be some smoke blowing around and lots of people looking for a fire.
09-18-13, 05:24 AM
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Yes, they would have access. It is actually administered by WADA. It is in twelve languages. And I totally agree with your last sentence. Which is why there will probably be a punitive lawsuit filed.
09-18-13, 05:28 AM
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A 41 year old winning his first Grand Tour by riding away from the likes of Purito and Valverde up the steepest mountains in Spain would draw questions no matter what era it happened in. Throw in all the Lance stuff and the hotel screw-up, and there looks to be some smoke blowing around and lots of people looking for a fire.
09-18-13, 09:32 AM
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He always climbs standing, for as long as I've been watching him. Not "indefinitely", more like for ten minutes.
09-18-13, 11:48 AM
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arguably the greatest american roadie ever given his absolute domestic dominance and later european success-riding much of it as a super-domestique.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
He also has a junior WC, and two podium finishes at the WC to go along with his 2 rainbow jerseys.
09-18-13, 12:25 PM
#38
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arguably the greatest american roadie ever given his absolute domestic dominance and later european success-riding much of it as a super-domestique.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
Not even close. Lemond's an order of magnitude above Horner. Hampsten's above Horner.
If we're talking domestic success, Horner didn't win as much as Davis Phinney, who also has 2 TDF stage wins, to Horner's zero.
And if you don't consider doping, you've got to put Armstrong, Hamilton, and Landis above Horner.
And what is this European success? Other than the Veulta win, what do you have 9th place in the TDF? 5th in the Tour de Suisse?
In fact the pattern appears rather smelly: Giro; One start, One DNF; Tour de France; 33rd, 61st,14th, DNF, 9th, DNF, 13th; Veulta; 20th, 36th, DNF, then 1st at age 41?
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09-18-13, 01:25 PM
#39
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Domestically he's also won the San Francisco Grand Prix and Tour of California, Redlands multiple times, and Tour of Georgia.
He's a fun guy to watch, comparisons to Lemond and Phinney are just silly.
09-18-13, 01:34 PM
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It's Vuelta. And he also has a Vuelta al País Basco in which he kicked arse on Valverde, Rodriguez, Sanchez, and Gesink including a win in the TT stage.
Domestically he's also won the San Francisco Grand Prix and Tour of California, Redlands multiple times, and Tour of Georgia.
He's a fun guy to watch, comparisons to Lemond and Phinney are just silly.
Domestically he's also won the San Francisco Grand Prix and Tour of California, Redlands multiple times, and Tour of Georgia.
He's a fun guy to watch, comparisons to Lemond and Phinney are just silly.
I think I'd be more exited about the Vuelta win, if I weren't so suspicuous, which is a sad commentary on the state of the sport now.
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09-18-13, 06:43 PM
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I am happy for Horner. Having said that, I am very suspicious too. Just look at the people he defeated, and at the ripe old age of 41 too.
It also just so happened that he turned in this result of his life just as he'll need a new contract. That makes me suspicious. It just goes to show the damage dopers have done to pro cycling. It is gonna be a long long time before a grand tour winner is not viewed suspiciously as a doper. And that is a real shame.
It also just so happened that he turned in this result of his life just as he'll need a new contract. That makes me suspicious. It just goes to show the damage dopers have done to pro cycling. It is gonna be a long long time before a grand tour winner is not viewed suspiciously as a doper. And that is a real shame.
09-19-13, 08:43 AM
#42
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09-19-13, 08:49 AM
#43
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An insider's perspective https://cameronwurf.blogspot.com
His point that other riders would not tolerate it in this generation if a top rider was winning by doping, assumes that the other riders are not doping.
Again, I hope he's right, but one bitten, twice shy.
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09-19-13, 04:52 PM
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I want to believe too, but it's going to take time.
09-19-13, 06:11 PM
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09-19-13, 08:25 PM
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09-19-13, 10:08 PM
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I was reminded of that on that "100 years of the tour" doc that got shown here this year. The helicopter shots of different riders literally pointing fingers in the middle of a stopped peloton brought back some bad memories.
09-20-13, 10:25 AM
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On the regular-American-news-outlets-that-covered-Horner's-victory, you can add Grantland (an ESPN subsidiary aimed at a statistically- and culturally-aware crowd)
Chris Horner, the Unlikely American Cycling Hero
Nice article, trying to explain some of the basics of bike racing to the unfamiliar sports fan.
Unfortunately, it was posted at 5:30 PM on a Wednesday, and apparently most people who read Grantland check the website while at work.
Chris Horner, the Unlikely American Cycling Hero
...But with apologies to the real cycling fans of the Internet, I'm going to make five assumptions about you, the Grantland reader who stumbled on this article.
First, you've only ever heard of the Vuelta in passing, if at all, and ditto for Chris Horner.
Second, you're wondering why you should care.
Third, you lack some basic facts.
Fourth, the first word that comes to mind when you come across a cycling story is "doping."
Fifth, you've yet to encounter the poetic side of the sport...
First, you've only ever heard of the Vuelta in passing, if at all, and ditto for Chris Horner.
Second, you're wondering why you should care.
Third, you lack some basic facts.
Fourth, the first word that comes to mind when you come across a cycling story is "doping."
Fifth, you've yet to encounter the poetic side of the sport...
Unfortunately, it was posted at 5:30 PM on a Wednesday, and apparently most people who read Grantland check the website while at work.
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09-20-13, 12:30 PM
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Earlier in Wurf's blog, he recounts a conversation with Horner about what racing was like earlier in Horner's career. Horner said that back in the day he struggled to keep up with the peleton, even to make it to the feed zone in time for food. I wonder if he was telling young Wurf what it was like when doping was in full swing, and I also wonder if that has something to do with Horner's retreat to the US domestic racing scene for a decade in mid-career. I also wonder why he was, apparently, never accepted into the inner circle of top-level US pro racers in Europe.